Taric Rework Incoming

TheLastBaron88·Apr 20, 2015·20 votes·3,425 views

Or so Rito says. I'm really curious what they intend to do with his kit. He's always been the tanky brawly healy guy, but his numbers have been horribly neutered in almost every incarnation I've witnessed, with the exception of when they slightly reworked his passive etc and he was an unstoppable monstrosity. The reason for this seems to be that they want to keep him out of top lane and the jungle, but when are they going to learn that a healy brawly tanky guy is always going to be desirable in top lane and jungle?

Personally I think they should just balance him to be a competitive but balanced top laner/jungler, and he will probably still function well as a support.

I mean, support Sion totally works as well. Not my first choice, but it can work in a pinch.

59 Comments

Arcade AndrewApr 20, 201511 votes

I want them to change his kit so that every ability scales with his maximum armor and his W still gives out armor based on his armor, make him the support all ADC's fear, an armor based support....

TheLastBaron88Apr 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I want them to change his kit so that every ability scales with his maximum armor and his W still gives out armor based on his armor, make him the support all ADC's fear, an armor based support....

Right? It's way easy right now for teams to choose all AD champions and totally still dominate with it. Champions like Taric and Malphite are essential to making them regret that decision.

ApolloclipticApr 20, 20153 votes

Right now I like Taric, but he can be so useless sometimes it hurts me (because I still like him) his abilities scale with AP, HP and Armour, it makes optimisation really hard. I typically build 2 HP items (righteous glory, Sightstone) then MR and HP (merc treads and iron locket) while maxing W and with many armour runes. This does not make him as strong in combat, but his support traits are massive, and then one Frozen heart with the 20% CDR and he suddenly jumps in strength (from 140 to 250 armour minimum) stack a sunfire on top for even more hp and amour, plus dmg over time and he can just sit under turret while healing himself and smacking it down

But his flaws are not his builds, it's his kit, he has no MS, his stun wears off faster than it takes to land, leaving the window to utilise it stupidly low, (and i have twice stunned an adc attacking my turret, but the animation continues, then the stun wears off and its essentially like I didn't stun them, like a strange bug)

Taric can skill an adc often as fast as they can kill his adc. Problem is, if they kill you adc, they often run away (run passed you, kill adc, walk away) and taric can barely do anything. He does more damage but can NEVER catch an enemy once they have decided to disengage. He's only really strong when the enemy is foolish enough to stay and fight (like a jynx I beat recently 1v1 because she thought she would out damage me - but with my build I still had half my hp by the time she realised she should run, and could ulti twice).

When the enemy is low, its hard to catch them, unless you have long range cc adc like jynx, or speed buff from Sivir. If your adc gets ganked you can't stop the enemy, because you stun is so short lived and slow, that even if you deal more damage, they will escape before you can finish them, and you'll die if you chase.

Sometimes he wrecks, but sometimes he just stands around watching, unable to get involved. I spoke in another post about 3 changes (only one needed) to help him out.

He needs a speed buff ability A longer stun on E or his ultimate should be a mini-dash

Also considering his Ultimate being a knock-up (which would make sense) or it should radiate a slow.

He needs at least one more reliable CC, even if its an on hit slow from his passive (reduce the damage maybe), a slow with his W, or his R, but to be honest, his other skills are so balanced that it seems like it would break them. I think his weakness is his stun, it's slow moving and doesn't last very long.

If I was to suggest one buff, it'd be this:

When taric Stuns a target he marks them with "dazzle" debuff while dazzle'd the enemy is made visible, and Taric gets a movement speed buff while moving towards them (something good like 25%)

this would give some chase potential, but not as strong as say Leona, but also give defence potential, by stunning a jungler who dives on your adc, you get a speed buff back to ally (a weaker concept for Braums dash)

If giving Taric a chase is too strong, and making support only is the idea, then giving him the ability to dash to allies in some way (utilising heal as well) would help him fulfil his role, cause right now, enemies just jump passed him, and if u stand behind adc, then you can't protect them from skillshots :/

increasing allied movement speed to targets hit by dazzle would fix tarics biggest weakness in my opinion, without breaking him like a knock-up ultimate or longer stun might

TheLastBaron88Apr 20, 20153 votes

I think it's essential to his strength that he not have mobility or escapes of his own, but it is absolutely imperative that if this is so, he has to be able to lock down enemies so that they cannot escape.

What's difficult about him thematically is that he seems to be centered around being defensive and peeling for his carry, not diving, but this limits his usefulness in lane, when you need to be able to apply real threat, instead of just taking free poke.

ApolloclipticApr 20, 20152 votes

I think his presence in lane is fine, because he poses a threat that the enemy often misses. His stun, armour shred and heal, can help an ally adc burst down the enemy even with critical hp, downside is, that his ability to peel is limited to dealing damage, because his CC is weak, and often his adc is retreating, outside of his heal range.

I agree that he needs to either lock down his opponent, or have increased mobility, definitely not both. His mobility should be a support type, not combat type (like braum can dash to an ally) so increased movement speed to allied champ or something would help, or something more on his stun.

Taric is actually dangerous diver, because he can tank turrets longer than most, but has to be careful because he can't dash out after (I often walk under turret, wait for adc to get into position, then stun their adc and start bursting them before retreating - with the heal as well, you can usually get the kill if the enemy doesnt abandon their turret but if you stay too long, you have no way out)

Someone mentioned if his on hit stun was like a slow mark, that is triggered into a stun by adc or time delay. I think that'd be a good fix. As a slow he can use it to chase or peel, then the stun acts as a second cc within the same skill.

VenowolfApr 21, 20151 votes

Taric Passive:

Gemcraft :

At levels: 1 / 6 / 11 / 16

ON-TARGET COOLDOWN: 9 / 8 / 7 / 6

Taric' basic attacks deal bonus magic damage equal to 20% of Taric's armor and slows his target for 0.75 / 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 seconds by 35%.

This effect cannot trigger on the same target more than once every few seconds.

The EcdysiastApr 22, 20151 votes

But Taric's single-target CC and girlyman size makes the regret a little less. Hardly bodyblocks and stops one person.

Voluug13Apr 20, 20154 votes

Personally I prefer him on top/jungle because it makes him easier to balance. Support Taric is so hard to balance outside a relaunch that I prefer Taric to be the first champion to be shoved out of botlane instead of shoved in. I prefer him him to be balanced around being a top/jg counterpick that a subpar Leona/Thresh with a bit of sustain.

lB2kGRlc8yApr 20, 20153 votes

They gunna make his stun a skillshot obviously

TheLastBaron88Apr 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

They gunna make his stun a skillshot obviously

Probably. I'm ok with his kit requiring more skill, as long as it's actually strong and he is able to fulfill his character fantasy of pummeling foes and shrugging off damage. They definitely need to do something to make him less kiteable. It's too easy to just walk away from him even as is.

ApolloclipticApr 20, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Probably. I'm ok with his kit requiring more skill, as long as it's actually strong and he is able to fulfill his character fantasy of pummeling foes and shrugging off damage. They definitely need to do something to make him less kiteable. It's too easy to just walk away from him even as is.

His stun is his weakest and most useless skill. Unless they increase the duration of the stun, what's the point, I wouldn't mind losing the certain hit for a longer stun time and projectile speed, but otherwise it'd just make him too crippled to ever be used

MrBuffingtonApr 20, 20151 votes

I'm honestly hoping that they do something more interesting with it; there are already a ton of skillshot stuns in the game, I feel like there's a chance to make something really cool out of his CC (like a PBAoE stun, as in he Dazzles surrounding enemies with his fabulous gems, or something). Considering that I think he's up for near Sion level rework, I think they could do something cooler than just a single target, skillshot stun.

SalidfingersApr 20, 20153 votes

Personally i love his kit.

Then again i am 1 of the few people that play him regularly

junglerboy16Apr 21, 20151 votes

I play him about 70% of the time when I play support, and win almost every time I pick him. It almost feels like cheating haha.

SalidfingersApr 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I play him about 70% of the time when I play support, and win almost every time I pick him. It almost feels like cheating haha.

Shattering this tank meta is what he does best :P

Tentacle LoveApr 21, 20153 votes

New resource mechanic: Outrage.

Edit: Truly.

IcyPepperApr 22, 20151 votes

When full, he deals gem damage.

djjomonApr 20, 20152 votes

If Riot wants him out of the toplane, keep him without a reliable escape. He'll still be played top, but he'll be unfavorable as a blind pick.

If they want him out of the jungle, make his clear weak. These are both the case now, but we're talking about a potential rework.

What would they do with a rework as a support though? My ideas on what Riot would do. Not what I would do. (In no particular order): *Move his point-click stun to a skill shot, mark, or make it a snare. Point-click stuns are outdated and something something buzzwords "unfun" "no counterplay." *Armor aura removed in favor of giving allies extra armor in a spell. I'm imagining an AoE that increases allied armor for a duration, while keeping Shatter's shred on the enemy, also in that same area. Projectile or cast delay if needed. *Heal adjusted/removed. Going off of the removal of Karma's heal way back when. If he's an armor tank, he'll probably have the armor aspects of his kit worked with over the heal. I'll miss the heal though. (EDIT: Karma's old allied heal, not self heal. Thank you OP for pointing this out!) *On-hit remains. Taric, in-spite of being a support tank, has some damage/dueling power. As long as it's not a reliable way to win trades in solo-lane, I see it staying. *Utility scaling nerfed. Riot seems to have somewhat abandoned it.

What I would do instead: *Point-click slow and mark. Mark detonates into stun. Whether Taric has to detonate it himself, or only on allies, I'm unsure. Probably allies to keep his toplane from being crazy. *Armor aura changed to AoE I mentioned above. I really like this idea. *Keep the heal basically as is. Rework numbers as needed. *Keep his on-hit passive. I find it fun and rewarding, but predictable. *Keep utility scaling. I feel its under-appreciated, and encourages people to build tank. If they want to go damage, let them by all means. But with reasonable trade-offs for not using his armor/health scaling.

I can't really give a tl;dr on this. Too much detail. But at least read the first 2 parts.

TheLastBaron88Apr 20, 20151 votes

Personally I like the idea of him being in top lane and jungle, but mostly just for fun. Think it would be nice if he had some good matchups, but not completely lacking counterplay.

You have a point about the point/click stun. That was always his appeal, as a support for newbie players, or to stop high mobility champs like zed, katarina, or leblanc in their tracks. But I really hate the slow projectile speed on it, it's highly unsatisfying.

I DO really like the idea of it doing more damage at closer range. Maybe make it like Cassi ult where it only stuns while they are facing you, but make it more of an instant cast? That way it encourages enemies not to stand and fight with him.

Really, a menacing armored guy with a big hammer suggests to me that you shouldn't want to scrap with him early.

Also, Karma DOES still have her heal, it's on her Matra W right? I don't really remember old karma very well.

djjomonApr 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Personally I like the idea of him being in top lane and jungle, but mostly just for fun. Think it would be nice if he had some good matchups, but not completely lacking counterplay.

You have a point about the point/click stun. That was always his appeal, as a support for newbie players, or to stop high mobility champs like zed, katarina, or leblanc in their tracks. But I really hate the slow projectile speed on it, it's highly unsatisfying.

I DO really like the idea of it doing more damage at closer range. Maybe make it like Cassi ult where it only stuns while they are facing you, but make it more of an instant cast? That way it encourages enemies not to stand and fight with him.

Really, a menacing armored guy with a big hammer suggests to me that you shouldn't want to scrap with him early.

Also, Karma DOES still have her heal, it's on her Matra W right? I don't really remember old karma very well.

Cass' stun is avoidable. Taric's isn't. That's why I'm expecting it to be changed in some way. Think about Sion's rework, Xerath's, and I feel like someone else too. An unavoidable stun isn't what Riot likes anymore lol.

I agree on the range thing on the stun. Taric's playstyle should revolve around being the frontline. Like you said hammer fighter, plus his on-hit. He shouldn't have much in ranged spells.

I didn't play old Karma, but IIRC she healed allies too. That's what I meant, should've specified. Sorry! And yeah, she can heal herself on Mantra W.

Penguin EclipseApr 20, 20152 votes

I wouldn't look for his heal to stay the same. I have no idea how they will change it but I am sure they somehow will. Point-click heals with no counterplay or interaction have not been seen as healthy in Riot's eyes for some time now unless there is a real cost to using it (like Soraka).

TheFrozenIslesApr 21, 20151 votes

I agree with this.

His heal was the real reason why Riot did not like him any where else but bot. As he can he him self even more when he use it on him self then on another. So all you need is some cool down and mana and after that the other side can never get you out of lane. It does not help that frozen heart even gave him fighting power for his lane as well.

MrBuffingtonApr 20, 20152 votes

The reason for this seems to be that they want to keep him out of top lane and the jungle, but when are they going to learn that a healy brawly tanky guy is always going to be desirable in top lane and jungle?

Isn't that kind of the same struggle with Alistar?

I'm pretty sure it's decided that his stun is no longer going to be targeted, but I hope they do something interesting with his kit, instead of just turning it into a single target skillshot; he's one of the larger scale reworks, afterall, they can afford to do something more interesting.

PartholonianApr 20, 20152 votes

I'd be afraid of the rework, if not for the fact that I hardly play him now in his current state. He just doesn't feel like he has the impact on a fight that Leona or Braum have -- maybe that's because he's overnerfed, maybe it's because too much of his power is hidden, and maybe because his stun is so short range (well, not as short as Leona's, but she combos it with her gapcloser) and he doesn't have the mobility they do.

Of course, they don't have heals, but in practice, his is so expensive it doesn't amount to much even if enemy damage is actually split between both players. Or maybe it just feels that way because he's too busy building tank to build mana regen (although the flat mana on item 3110 or item 3025 helps some). Maybe he should recover mana on basic attacks, or when he procs his passive? That wouldn't be very safe, since he is melee, but taking a little damage isn't so bad anyway with the way his heal works (plus relic shield), so it might work out.

At least he's not going to turn the mana into long range poke like Jayce, or godlike mobility like Kassadin.

Honestly, I feel like the only skill of his that isn't practically character-defining is his ult; if he doesn't have reliable peel and improve allies' armor, he isn't Taric. Maybe his armor boost could become an active instead of always on (although his W already has an active, it's not nearly as character-defining as the armor buff IMO; "the guy who has so much armor he shares it with everyone" is just who he is, the shatter is just sort of there so he can have buttons to push).

What if his aura was weaker most of the time, but he could activate it to double it (or even more, depending on the base strength) for a short window? The armor shred on his current active W could be either eliminated, or moved to his passive (which requires landing AAs), and really who cares about the damage part. That would make it feel more like a "save allies" button than a "kill enemies" button (and why does Taric need one of those anyway). And man, would it ever feel awesome to have your ally barely survive something like a Draven ult because you timed it just right. (Well, to people who enjoy saving their allies as much or more than they enjoy killing their enemies. But that's the only kind who's ever going to play Taric anyway.)

Some changes to his heal could be possible too, although I don't really feel like there's anything wrong with it as it is except its mana cost feels really, really high compared to his mana availability (even when hardly casting anything else ever).

P.S. You outplay Taric by not trying to assassinate the guy standing right next to Taric. His stun doesn't need to become unreliable just because assassins go in on Taric-protected targets and fail and then whine about it. They deserve to fail, if they're doing that. They should learn to pick their targets more effectively.

ApolloclipticApr 21, 20151 votes

Taric's heal and shatter are his best two skills. Because his stun is so weak, to protect his allies, his W R combo is best, because a stunned jynx will "ALMOST" die to a burst combo, but survive thanks to a timely heal and armour buff, then shatter the enemies armour, burst Jynx's (or graves) damage with R, and they can burst the enemy instead. Removing the shatter would make Taric's active (or visual) presence even worse, since he will be even more reliant on his aura's, and unless the armour aura was significantly buffed (to like + 50) it wouldn't be a "save ally" skill. Right now it's a subtle, improve on trading, since Taric increases ally damage, and reduces incoming damage, while healing, I honestly think his stun is the worst part of his Kit, because it is so underpowered.

As for mana, don't build Iceborn, as great as it is in practice, it simply takes too long. As taric I don't even start Frozen heart until I have my first 3 items, and if enemy team has AP support/jungle, I start on Ages before I finish frozen heart anyway. I don't even build FotM anymore, I find it a waste, if you build straight into Righteous Glory (don't finish it, since you need to get a sightstone pretty early too) it completely compensates his sustain issues, and his heal scales with HP so his heal is much stronger early, and can be used more frequently thanks to the buff in mana and regen upon leveling. item 3010 item 2049 item 3111 item 3800 item 3082 / item 3024 item 3105 Build in that order and max out W, and you'll have a much smoother early game and sustain stops being an issue altogether. Final item being situational, Frozen mallet for more CC, HP, healing and peel (and dmg), iceborn then gives the extra 10% mana, more armour, aoe dmg and slow. spirit visage also gives him the extra cdr, makes him much tankier, but is better on very high ap teams (assuming you first picked Taric or something), Zereks Herold for crd more hp and even more ally damage and sustain. Thorn if you're the only tank and taking a lot of AD poke, you get my drift.

I think his ulti could use tweaking, his stun needs something (on hit slow that can be triggered into a stun by subsequent skill, allied attack or timer is a popular one) or a defensive gap closer, something like when he heals an ally, he moves faster towards them or something.

The above build means that he can heal fine without it being changed. I often end a Taric game with +20K in healing, which is more than some champs did damage. And i find Iron locket plus his heals makes up for not haveing FoTM. You can still build it ofc, but I find that if you build it first, his sustain is much weaker because he needs that early mana item, and he heals more from his Q than from FotM anyway.

PartholonianApr 22, 20151 votes

Aren't you giving up a lot of gold by not having any support item though? It's not just about the sustain from the proc. Even if you're just sitting on a item 3097 most of the game, you're getting useful stats on an item that practically pays for itself.

ApolloclipticApr 22, 20151 votes

You are giving up "some" gold, but I wouldn't say a lot. Targon's embrace and FotM give much less gold compared to the other items, but they give much greater rewards in other areas based on other rewards. The dual heal, the execute (easier clear time), the large hp buff (FotM is one of the larger hp items) CDR and HP based shield are all big buffs for the tank, while say the mana regen for example is not as useful on the mages, who often need a second mana item anyway to compensate.

For every other tank, I always build it, but with Taric, because of his mana weaknesses, he makes better use of a swift item 3010 because of the early game benefits each time you level, the increase in mana, mana regen, increase in hp, increase in heal, health regen, and item 3800 is then a situational upgrade if his poor mobility is an issue.

You also want to get that sightstone early, since he's once of the few champs that actually has an ability that scales with hp, it encourages you to get it early and avoid buy more early game wards. By saving on wards, potions/pots, and being able to stay in lane longer, it makes up for the gold lost by not having targons embrace.

I don't know the exact numbers, but the time it takes for Targons embrace to "pay for itself" you're probably already behind because of Tarics weaknesses. Whereas if I use lulu or even Vel support, I could be tempted by other items, but I can make back what I spend on item 3303 I get back before I am level 6, plus the ability to check brush early game with the long range poke. All items are situational, even core ones, and I personally found more recently that my games with Taric improve by skipping out on that item altogether. (I got more support masteries to compensate, since Taric is so naturally tanky he doesn't need as many defence masteries)

DeliothApr 21, 20152 votes

I like him, but his kit right now is honestly pretty boring. I'd like to play on his VO lines through his kit- namely making him a unique stance-based champ. He has 4 lines referencing specific gems and qualities based on them, but 4 stances on one ability would be awkward- I'd like his stance to be unique in that it cycles through 3 stances on one ability, rather than a swap or having it on multiple abilities. It'd be the defining part of his kit, giving a single unique ability for each gem, and adding an effect for another spell.

For the most part, I'd keep his q and w similar to his current stuff- Q being a heal/ally targeted ability, and W being an aura attached to a burst effect. His E would be the biggest change due to the fact that it's a targeted stun, and would probably be phased out in a rework anyways. His ult would turn into his trio of stances, and each stance would take some time to charge up- gems are, after all, part of the earth, and the earth is known to work in slow ways. Probably a 10/8/6/4 second wind-up on his aura abilities/duration of an active on stance swap (Would provide the same bonuses, but would be over a shorter time for regen/&c. Offensive bonuses would scale up backwards through this progression.)

"Opal for harmony" could be a stance characterized by a distinct white opalescence on his gems, and could be a healer-esque stance. His q would stay the same in this stance with no extra effects, but a larger heal than other stances. His W would provide a slight(5-10%) Bonus to healing effects in a radius, as well as a measure of regeneration. On using his W, it reduces enemy healing effects by 40% in the area (possible scaling), while doubling/tripling the passive regen for a short duration. His E in Opal would be a blinding flash- a thin cone (think Aatrox's blades of torment backwards and filled in) flashes with white light, stunning or blinding enemies facing towards Taric (maybe dependent on distance?) When switching to this stance, Taric lets out a wave of harmony, restoring mana to all allies in the area and giving Taric additional mana regen depending on how many allies are affected.
"Ruby for vigor" would be a stance of deep reds in his gems, and would be focused on offensive movements- vigorous charging, initiation tactics, all that. His Q would provide a smaller heal than any other stance, but would enhance their damage-dealing with a buff; vigorous power- when a unit is hit with damage with this flag 5 times (within 3 seconds), any channels are interrupted and they are rooted for a short (.5 second, maybe) duration. His W during his Ruby stance could provide a small measure of AD and AP to allies in the area. When activated, it knocks enemies in the area up very shortly, and doubles the passive effects for a short while.(See a pattern?) His E could be a dynamic charge for the hammer-wielder, a short-ranged targeted dash that deals small damage and applies a slow in an AoE around where he lands. If he's already in melee range when he uses this ability, it stuns the target and gives a larger slow in the area. When switching to this stance, Taric gives ~~a warcry~~ off a wave of power, increasing the movespeed of allies in the area by a relatively large amount, and giving Taric additional movement based on how many allies it affects. (More patterns for cohesive gameplay!)
"Sapphire for divinity" would be his hardy defensive stance, boosting himself to divinity through his heroic defense of his comrades. His Q would grant its target a shield in addition to the heal (Probably just a little more total hp+shield than the Opal's heal, due to the temporary nature of the shield). His W would function very similarly to his current live W, giving an armor buff and smaller MR buff to allies, while shredding the defenses of enemies when used. It can also, like the others, double its own bonuses for a short time after it is popped. His E could hold in the defensive attitude, a massive stomp to create a bulwark in an arc in front of Taric- It lasts for some time, and the ability has a longer cooldown to reflect this- and it slows enemies who try to pass through it as they must climb the smooth but shallow surface. It also causes hostile projectiles that travel over it to deal decreased damage or have decreased range (Hard on coding) or it could have a zone behind it that gives allies additional defenses vs. projectiles. When switching to this stance, Taric destroys projectiles in a small radius around him, granting him temporary extra defenses for each projectile destroyed (Like 1 armor/MR for every projectile destroyed, for every X additional defense, lasts a second longer but diminishes returns- I.E. if he destroys 10 projectiles he gains 10 armor/MR for 2 seconds, but if he destroys 20 projectiles he gains 15 armor/MR for 4 seconds. Those numbers would probably be very UP, but the concept is there).

His stances would cycle Opal-Ruby-Sapphire-Opal, which would provide a good progression- Opal to sustain his lane partner with regen and heals, transition to Ruby to engage/counter-engage on the enemy and buff his team's burst, Sapphire to keep a fight going by making his allies more durable, slowing the enemy's sustained damage output. Back to Opal to sustain back from the fight. I'd say probably put the stance change on some sort of charge cooldown to prevent him from just switching constantly to keep his mana pool infinite or some such thing- like he gets a charge every 30 seconds(2 charges max), the change itself has a 2 second CD, and he regains a charge on kill or assist. This would allow him to do a full 'proper' engage every minute, but they wouldn't be able to lick their wounds for a while unless they got a kill out of the engagement- this provides a point of vulnerability- the defenses aura is down for a little while, he can't regain his mana with a stance swap for a while, and he doesn't have improved heal/regen aura- a solid 15-20 second window of vulnerability for the lane after an unsuccessful engagement. counterplay

Tell me what you guys think!

ApolloclipticApr 21, 20151 votes

I think your idea is WAY too complicated, Lulu is already a pretty sophisticated champ because her skills can be applied in so many different combinations, same with Jayce in some ways (i don't play him) and nida, this is like all 3 of them and then some.

HOWEVER

I really like where you're going with this.

An interesting alternative could like Karma's ultimate. If he uses his ulimate he can then power up one of his skills for a set time, but that skill has a passive

For example. R + Q Opal of harmony, Q now heals for more, W grants HP and mana regen, E gives a speed buff or removed negative buffs???

R + W Sapphire of Harmony (W is his def skill after all) Q creates a an overshield like blood thurster W gets a buff + grants MR now (or flat damage resistance) E acts like Maokais Q, it knocks back if enemy is close, then creates a wall, or just just creates a wall in a cone. The cone is either a straight wall, or a slow zone which weakens projectiles like you suggested. Either could be applicable (personally I think this should be his new E anyway, regardless of update)

R + E (Ruby of vigor - since this is his engage skill) Q not grants bonus AD and MAYBE AP, to stop him being too strong it might be best to limit him to being an anti-Ad / ADC support rather than super tank + super support W increases it's range and casts a slow (was thinking root, but too OP) E is a fissure, hurting (pushing asside) minions but only exploding on champions, dealing AOE knock up, making a path to reach target easier

Better for his kit, E being a charge that knocks minions aside and will knock up first champion hit (small range, not a dash that can go through walls) so he can combo it with W for the slow, and then Q for damage buff

His R should only enhance his other skills, so there should be consistency with their application. In my example E is a bit random

So if E typically is a short range pulse (smashes hammer into ground, acting like his W range) then in is a mini omni-directional knock back. It would mean he can't engage with it anymore (which was weak anyway) but has to apply it when peeling.

The with R+Q it has a buff on allies, imagine leona uses ultimate but you drop an R-Q-E, your adc is unfrozen and immune to cc for 1-2 seconds It'd really take skill because it's an advanced combo that's waste your passive, so there's still roam for counter play, R+W+E Would make a protective wall R+E+E would be the fissure, knocking enemy front liners to one side with default E, then the fissure would strike at back line targets (if they don't dodge)

Of course, the rapid combo would be hard and limiting, but the R is an over time skill, like 10 seconds, So he has enough time to use each of his skills at least once.

Also, R would be cool if it created a shock-wave / pulse, that slowed time for like 1/2 a second, giving Taric time to use select another ability. If it was like Bard's ultimate, like a slow for all champs nearby, just long enough to kind of "declare" his intentions. When Taric drops his ultimate everyone should be like, "we're about to get some buffs!" the opposite of right now where his strengths often go unnoticed.

Anyway, I like your idea, just giving my own variation, maybe something in the middle would work best

Krys StarApr 21, 20152 votes

I hate you because I was expecting a released information on Taric's rework.

junglerboy16Apr 21, 20152 votes

I have also wanted them to keep him more as a bruiser who supports rather than a support that plays like a bruiser. Jungle and Top lane Taric are amazingly fun and rather underrated, and I sincerely hope that even if they don't focus him on that style, at least leave it a viable off meta play style.

TheLastBaron88Apr 24, 20151 votes

This. And as BastionKross said, he really does have a late-game scaling kit with a Bruiser curve. That, I think, is a large part of why he is such a weak choice for a support. The entire purpose of a support is early game power and high utility. That said, I do like that Taric scales into a strong late game. I think he just needs ways to be (and feel) impactful at all stages of the game, and not just be an unkillable wall that is easily avoided in the late game.

Maybe instead of an active heal with no interaction, he could have a passive in-combat heal/regen mechanism for himself and allies? Taric should be the go-to support for mitigating sustained damage and grinding out long teamfights/lane trades imo.

They definitely need to fix his scalings tho. They are too diverse (and weak) to be optimised for. He has the same problem as old Sion where building towards some aspects of his kit leaves the other parts of his kit completely useless.

Solidair3Apr 20, 20151 votes

here's what I'm thinking.

Q stays the same, maybe gains some other effect for allies W loses aura, gains another effect, damage increased E skillshot with aoe potential? mini ashe arrow or debuff or something. R completely changed.

ApolloclipticApr 20, 20153 votes

R is a great ability and to completely change it would suck, most agree in the idea of a knock up with the bonus buffs, but personally I think a tweak is more important than a new skill altogether. (remove AP buff and replace with AS (the ad buff is pointless if he only lands two hits, and he can't stay in range of his targets) if taric gave MS and AD, then teamed with Sivir, the burst kills would be OP. Alternatively, he could give ad and armour pen. I have found the AP buff is nice for exactly 1 heal, but even with all his skills, he doesn't get to land another heal until after the affect wears off, and it serves no other purpose on him.

Anyway, I like the aura on W, but rather than damage increased (which armour shred does anyway) I think an aura slow would be better. Enemies moving near him move slower, so he can't chase once they get out of his range, but he can kite easier and stay in the fight once they engage on him

Improve his attack animation, I find even with higher attack speed, he takes ages to land a single hit, which he needs to trigger passive. By the time he stops to hit, enemy walks out of range cause he is so slow.

Q stays the same - it is his best skill W stays the same (or lose armour for slow) E marks a target, slowing them, if struck again, they are stunned R knock-up or turns his AA's into mini-dashes (like Rivens attacks) so he can chase while it is up

Making it a skill shot group stun is pointless. It's what nami already has (to make her unique) or Bard (which most dislike). The fact that he can focus and hit a target is strong on him. If he could just "reach" the target once they are stunned, or the adc, it'd help greatly

a scary alternative is a mark, reveals champ, no stun, but every hit on that champ slows them until mark is gone. something more akin to lulu's petrify then just a straight stun that was nerfed so much that it's almost useless

PS. the armour buff from W is pretty weak, it sounds good on paper, but reduces damage by like 3% or something for allies, it'd be better for a flat damage reduction aura. Weaker than Maokai's with smaller range, and maybe only physical damage, though an increase to the armour shared would have same affect, +15 armour i think is near where it is mid game, 22 by late game, it has so little impact. He'd be better off if he could share mana or something

Solidair3Apr 20, 20151 votes

I like R a lot, too. The problem is, though, that most supports have "better" ults. I use quotation marks because his is more DIFFERENT than straight up WORSE. The thing is, I think Riot is going to change it regardless, because it's another example of "hidden power" that they hate so much.

My theory is that they're going to give him something a little more disruptive (AOE stun around himself, knock up around himself, something else, I don't know do I look like a designer??????)

The hallmark of a support, in Riot's eyes, I think, is the ability to make plays without having many items. If we look at Sona, Braum, Leona, Nami, Janna, even Bard we see that all of their ults are very disruptive and sometimes teamfight winners.

Taric's can DO that, but for the most part it won't FEEL good, which is something Riot is a big fan of (an ability FEELING good).

While I don't think all supports need to be the same, the general formula is always there. I had an idea at one point in which Taric had two "stances" switched by his ult. a Solid and a Shattered stance and his abilities would have different effects depending on what stance he is in (more tanky when in solid, more damage when in shattered), but I think that would also probably be a balancing nightmare and I'd prefer him to be a healthy champion.

ApolloclipticApr 20, 20151 votes

yeah, i see what you mean about that R "feeling good" I like how it feels, but even my own allies don't always realise how big a difference it makes. Especially when it buffs up the heals, and helps reduce the CD's of his other skills (AD/AP buffs aside)

I often use the Exhaust, W, R combo, where an allied aa deals massive damage, not to mention a skill, when they follow up, it's an instant kill, but they don't always realise and they back off or hesitate, so an ultimate that's more visually impactful (like with a knock up or massive area slow) to help allies seize the opportunity might be the direction riot goes

VenowolfApr 20, 20151 votes

Q - Probably Heals allies and give some minor armor buff, to better the trades in lane.

W - Loses the aura, but gain a massive AoE Armor Buff during X seconds (Like Sona's auras) based on Taric armor when its activate, also gain another effect

E- Maybe keept like a point-click but have a new stun duration based on the nearby of the cast to the enemy.

R- A new ability - Maybe a Hard CC like Sion'Q, something that smash the ground, and enpowered his other skills during this time.

KelloryApr 21, 20151 votes

Just some thoughts.

Currently Taric's kit has few ways for a player to express their skill with Taric. Auto Attacks, Targeted heal, Champion Centered AOE burst, Targeted CC, Champion Centered AOE burst + Aura.

Currently avoiding his damage or CC means staying away from him. And he's too immobile to follow up max range stuns.

A side note, I racked up a lot of wins in S2 as a support Taric by taking as much move speed as possible. In the days when everyone started boots and pots, I could take a Fairy Charm, pots, and ward and still be as fast (faster sometimes) as my ADC. Oh Initiator Mastery how I miss you.

I think we'll see a Skill shot CC and a(nother) R rework.

Q might loose the bonus self heal when healing others. If it does, I hope it gains a second effect when used on an enemy.

W seems like it's too central to Taric Identity to change much. Keep the **AOE area **the same, but reduce it to a 90° cone pointed toward the curser. ;)

E almost has to change to a skill shot. Hopefully it gets a range and missile speed buff. Missile width will be important too.

R, did you know there are only 2 vacuum abilities in the game? Diana's E (or is it W?) and Ori's R. Not sure how it would work thematically, but the idea of a Knight that draws his enemies to himself (the better to kill them) sounds fun. The aura is going to go, hidden power as others have mentioned.

I'd almost like to see the AP scaling either dropped from his kit altogether or focused on pure utility scaling, with armor scaling the W aura and damage.

For his look and feel, he should not be grim. I'm okay with not being Outrageous or Fabulous, but he must not be grim. Lancelot from the "Camelot" musical. It makes more sense after hearing "C'est Moi".

khorneyApr 21, 20151 votes

I go top lane as Taric . it works I have 100 armor lvl 1. Your w screws people up. His passive needs to be better . it should be 30% not 20 . his ult needs to like knock u in the air or some shyt . his q is okay grant once you get spirit visage your q heals you for a shyt ton. But his ult needs to be different . the aoe damage buff doesn't really do a whole lot in my opinion

MazyrApr 21, 20151 votes

I posted an idea for a Taric rework on the old boards, but to join in the conversation again I'd like to see Taric re-tooled to be a defender-type support who assists his team by buffing his allies/debuffing his enemies. He'd lose his team-wide auras but gain the ability to designate one of his allies as his “shield-brother” through his passive, giving them bonuses similar to what he gives now. His W would have the added components of while it was on cooldown Taric's move speed would be increased, while enemies hit by Shatter would be slowed. His E would become a ground-targeted or PBAOE stun that would grant his shield-brother bonus tenacity unless it was on cooldown, while his R would give Taric back his team-wide auras for a short time by making all allies in range his shield-brother, while at the same time having an AOE blind effect centered on Taric. I kept his Q fairly similar, but on reflection I think he should lose his heal for a skill that is more of a thematic fit. Just my two cents.

Extreme TrollerApr 21, 20151 votes

taric is a paladin, he should heal himself only, with very low cd heal.

IcyPepperApr 22, 20153 votes

Er, paladins can heal others. It's called "lay on hands" for a reason; being able to only heal himself would have that phrase take on a new meaning...

ApolloclipticApr 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Er, paladins can heal others. It's called "lay on hands" for a reason; being able to only heal himself would have that phrase take on a new meaning...

I agree, I think Paladins in most games and fiction writing are "healers" like a cross between the warrior/knight class and the white mage, so to only heal himself would greatly defeat the purpose of having a team healer, that's what vampirism and black magic is for (life fiddles life drain and Vlads)

Extreme TrollerApr 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Er, paladins can heal others. It's called "lay on hands" for a reason; being able to only heal himself would have that phrase take on a new meaning...

NNNOOOO !!

{quoted}

I agree, I think Paladins in most games and fiction writing are "healers" like a cross between the warrior/knight class and the white mage, so to only heal himself would greatly defeat the purpose of having a team healer, that's what vampirism and black magic is for (life fiddles life drain and Vlads)

Paladin are selfish they need to heal themselves. because they are warrior. And their heal is bad and not designed to heal others. They can only cure poison and debuff and give some buff to ally. In the first mmo, like T4C, paladin could heal other but their heal was uber crâp.

Priest are pure healer and buffer, they are squishy and can heal others.

Cleric, is a mixt between both. They can heal other, but heal less than a priest. they are squishy like priest. But can wear same weapon than paladin (but no armor).

It's not because crâpwow designed paladin to be healer that paladin are healer.

ApolloclipticApr 22, 20152 votes

I'm sure the "concept" of the Paladin has been around much longer than that, (I could be wrong), but I always assumed that their lore is that of highly team-oriented characters, completely far from "Selfish" even your description of their cure poison or remove debuffs suggests that much.

As for the heal, I think somewhere their lore and that of Templars got mixed up, Warriors are warriors, Paladin are paladin, and while Templars are like Holy Knights, often shown as good and protective, Paladin have been viewed as highly similar in mechanics (positive magic + knight-like mechanics but not as touch or brawly as knights or warriors) therefore the "good nature" has come across more and more, as Templars are almost replaced by Paladins as a character type.

In conclusion, while Paladins have certainly changed in their application over time, they've always been "healers" therefore never been "selfish" and that is shown in Taric. He heals himself better, but can still heal others but weaker. Your description of a Paladin (even the selfish part) fits in with Tarics design

Personally I've always liked the idea of Paladins because I am "support-minded" but I like being on the front lines and providing healing assistance. I am not "kill - focussed" hence a heal over an engage or chase mechanic, is what makes the relatively unique class.

On a side note, I am looking forward to the death-doctor (an assassin support/healer) Considering that the ones best at healing usually know best how to kill, any decent ninja tale will tell you all about it. Game wise it has no place for it, but thematically I'd like to see it, the ability to kill as opposed to team clearing abilities, like a single target, high damage, long CD, burst skill, that is supported by poke, heal and buff mechanics (Nidalee :D)

BastionKrossApr 21, 20151 votes

Taric has the utility-heavy kit of a support with the power curve of a top laner/jungler. His early game, when supports have the most impact, is pretty lackluster compared to other supports. However, his armor/HP scaling makes his late game pretty strong since it gives him both defensive and offensive bonuses.

Taric also has a lot of his kit's power tied up in auras, and we all know how exciting and impactful those can be /sarcasm. If we get rid of those auras, or at least tone them down significantly, that would free up quite a bit of power to distribute back into his kit. Maybe he'd actually have a heal that works on other champs now, or have his stun last longer, or give his ult additional effects.

Personally, no matter what they decide to do to him, I hope they keep his point and click stun. With all the mobility we have in League now, it's nice to have an ability that can help counter that. In fact, with the right kit, that could be Taric's niche; countering mobility. Isn't it time for an anti-mobility champion to hit League?

ApolloclipticApr 21, 20151 votes

Maokai ^^

ApolloclipticApr 21, 20151 votes

An on click root, a knock up/ slow and long ranged slow, he is my first pick against Yasuo, LB, Vayne, pre-nerf lucian, etc)

BastionKrossApr 21, 20151 votes

I'll give you the PnC root and the knock up, but the sapling toss doesn't really do much to impede mobility. The sapling takes time to land and then uproot to track it's target, and even if it does connect a slow isn't nearly as effective as hard cc is at shutting down mobility.

However, imagine a Taric with his PnC stun, some kind of short root effect on his ult (an AoE around himself), and then finally a medium length silence somewhere else in his kit. That's a combo that'll make even the most mobile champs weak in the knees, but also require Taric to be able to capitalize on his stun without a gapcloser, so your allies can get in between the two of you to stop his lockdown combo.

ApolloclipticApr 21, 20151 votes

When you gank as Maokai, I often root, throw the sappling at their turret (I already waited out the minion wave) then push the enemy towards my ally for free CC stack (if they have) or just damage. When they flash to their turret into sappling, trust me, IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE but yeah, obviously it's not hard cc The Taric you described would probably be TOO strong, but an on click stun, proximity slow on W, (or as one guy mentioned using W increases his movement speed) and a knock up on his ultimate sounds nice. I wouldn't have a silence on top of that :D and yeah, no gap closers means he's still relying on skill and timing