You know what sucks? Not being able to punish lane select Trolls.

EmollientNut0·Sep 1, 2016·60 votes·2,962 views

Just had our first pick who queue'd for support and locked Garen. Why the fuck do they get to get away with that if someone dodges? You mean to punish this fucker I have to sit through a 40 minute ranked game of him trolling just for the chance? Honestly fuck that, Riot. It's stupid.

EDIT: A quick addition, since there was a piece I left out and this is many people's concerns. I did forget to mention the part where he stole our top laner's role after saying "Let me try top, I always get support I'll be good top hehe xd" Cheers to everyone for giving the post some attention.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

98 Comments

SarutobiSep 1, 201623 votes

Going off meta and trolling are two different things! Support Garen can be scary. Not only that but how exactly would reporting them work in champ select? People already don't pay attention, so what make a surrender like vote? Then duo will have too much power as they do with normal surrender. If you just let people dodge then queue times will go crazy. I'm not talking about 5-10min wait. More like 30-60min wait probably longer for higher divisions. Because we all know the moment someone off meta picks or sees a strong enemy team comp, people will dodge like crazy!

EmollientNut0Sep 2, 20161 votes

A quick addition, since there was a piece I left out and this is many people's concerns. I did forget to mention the part where he stole our top laner's role after saying "Let me try top, I always get support I'll be good top hehe xd" Cheers to everyone for giving the post some attention.

Nami in BushSep 1, 20169 votes

There's no rule against playing Garen Supp. I have a 56% win rate as Kat support. I don't take CS or do anything a support wouldnt do.

LatetotheRaceSep 1, 20166 votes

I'm not even going to go in-depth really on why what you just said is both wrong and stupid. op.gg says it all, that and the concept of kill lane supports work up until diamond if you do it well enough.

Nami in BushSep 1, 201610 votes

{quoted}

I'm not even going to go in-depth really on why what you just said is both wrong and stupid. op.gg says it all, that and the concept of kill lane supports work up until diamond if you do it well enough.

It's not. Bannable. Get over it. Intent feeding is bannable, picking an off meta support isnt. Go cry somewhere else.

LatetotheRaceSep 2, 20161 votes

If you want to play off-meta, do so in normals. Keep it out of ranked, the only people who want to see it is your opponents.

notice me Sin piSep 2, 20161 votes

i feel u, 67% win rate as ahri support here

EmollientNut0Sep 2, 20161 votes

WolfChasesSep 1, 20164 votes

Exactly lol....When someone is decided to troll even before the game even started and is planning to ruin your game and waste ~40 minutes of your life and you dodge because of that....you get punished lol...like what the hell.

You dodge because game will be ruined for you and 3 other players from your team because 1 kid decided to troll because his parents don't have enough money to buy him brand new iPhone and you get punished...justice at it's finest.

MazariamontiSep 1, 20164 votes

I play Morgana and Brand top, deal with it.

The DeckownerSep 1, 20167 votes

it's not about the champion, but rather taking others' role.

MazariamontiSep 1, 20163 votes

Is it? The op just said the support locked Garen. He never said anything about him stealing top lane.

It Hertz When IPSep 1, 20163 votes

If anything, the phrasing implies that he was talking about someone actually taking Garen as a support.

Which TBH could work. Especially with built in regen and the Bond of Stone keystone... you wouldn't have any CC unless Garen rushed Mallet, but you're have some pretty strong all-in and it'd be hard to force him out of lane. Maybe pair him with an ADC that has their own disengage/mobility, like Quinn, Caitlyn, or Graves.

crippler38Sep 1, 20163 votes

put him in with kalista and bam you have a good engage with kalista's slow a good all in with their combined damage and a good execute with kali's spears and garen's garen-ness

plus throwing a garen at people might freak them out since he does all his damage up close.

BLACK REALM GODSep 2, 20161 votes

Or! Or! Darius.

*edit but in reverse. Use your R as he finishes his Q or his R dive or his Yank.

crippler38Sep 2, 20161 votes

dar needs them to be at a certain range for his spin with garen you can throw him in and he'll start spinning instantly to shred em, dar can work too though, I just like the idea of garen more.

BLACK REALM GODSep 2, 20161 votes

you pull darius out after he attacks and if you yank you'll yank them to kalista unless they fixed it. free damage and heals with his spin. turret dives with the R.

TotalJerkSep 1, 20161 votes

The basic implication is that you lock the champion for the role you want no matter what. So they either give you top or get Garen support/jungle/adc/mid.

LordGeovanniSep 2, 20161 votes

or you could not btch and let them take the champion in the role they que'd for that way you dont give anyone your role and people will play the role they qued for no matter the champion as it was in the before time of season 2 and 3

TotalJerkSep 2, 20161 votes

You've completely missed the point. You weren't even in the same general area.

LordGeovanniSep 4, 20161 votes

You say them picking a champion causes you to have to give them a certain role when you could just leave them alone and play your role let them play theirs. it doesnt force you to do anything you jsut arent comfortable with what they are playing and where

TotalJerkSep 1, 20161 votes

Morgana top is really good, though.

MazariamontiSep 1, 20163 votes

Well I know that, the people calling me a troll and dodging my games don't, apparently.

The DeckownerSep 1, 20164 votes

rito's system is terrible at punishing any trolls in general. just look at how long it took for them to ban tyler1 who was reddit front page for so long. Even tyler1 takes that long to get banned, normal trolls who don't get recognized by the community will take forever to get banned.

TotalJerkSep 1, 20162 votes

Tyler 1 was literally banned over 20 times.

The DeckownerSep 1, 20163 votes

Those accounts were banned for verbal abuse, Rito rarely ban intentional feeders nor other trolls.

TFBaamSep 1, 20161 votes

if they have a history of trolling or feeding they get in trouble. if tyler int every game then he wouldnt get into masters/diamond

statelesskillerSep 2, 20161 votes

or challenger for that matter. like you heard about tyler1 inting like . . . once a week . . . maybe? but like in reality he played dozens of games. if your like me you play about 4 games a day. so he didnt int all that often at all

SeriphymSep 1, 20163 votes

Knew this was coming when they got rid of Team Builder.

notice me Sin piSep 1, 20163 votes

just because it's non-meta doesnt mean it's a troll pick. For example i main support, and there are few times when i go Ahri support (heavily situational depending on enemy team comp or just norm games). I am actually able to supp with it and sometimes shit on the enemy adc cuz I know the champ

DepressedAhriSep 2, 20161 votes

Ahri has reliable CC though and can actually be played as a utility mage without much drawback. It's a similar thing with Anivia, Zyra, Zilean, Brand, and other mages taken as a support.

notice me Sin piSep 2, 20161 votes

as support, i find her oppressive (if adc isnt hyper-passive) in laning phase, decent in roaming phase, useless in late game, and decent in hyper-late game (which is very unlikely to happen).

she does have a drawback-- she doesnt bring much utility in teamfights (single-target charm is all she has), while champions like Anivia (wall, AOE stun) Zilean (AOE stun, slow/speedup, revive) Zyra (AOE root, AOE knockUP) and even Lux (double target root, parabolic-AOE shield, AOE slow) do

DepressedAhriSep 3, 20161 votes

I meant playing her utility doesn't have much drawback, not the CC aspect. I'm just saying that Ahri support shouldn't be considered a troll pick even though it is, and providing information to back it up.

Russian DollSep 1, 20162 votes

Bleh, I ADC'd with irelia once in ranked, my jungler was toxic AF but i finished the game 17-1 lol. Same as when I ori jungle, there's a difference between trolling and just having fun or testing new stuff. My boyfriend went crazy the first time i picked Syndra jungle, I was 23-2.

GULAG 4 USep 1, 20165 votes

do it in normals but don't in ranked.

MazariamontiSep 1, 20162 votes

Sometimes you'll do something in normals that works so well, and consistently, that you have to see whether it will work in a ranked environment. I was having incredible success a year ago with AP MF mid but for whatever reason nothing would ever go right in ranked play. People claimed I was trolling even though I had spent like 15+ normal games working on build and figuring out what to do. Really most of the time it would actually be pretty decent, but it's like the whole mindset of the team changes sometimes if you make an off meta pick. The smallest error becomes a huge offense. Losing lanes give up quickly as though it was your off meta pick that lost their lane. The sad reality is that there are probably quite a few picks and builds that can excel in ranked play that the game just isn't ready for yet.

GULAG 4 USep 1, 20162 votes

well the thing is it depends on the thing you're trying. Why play Ap mf where there's amumu? You don't deal that much more damage so it's not really good. There is a reason to go AP jax or kha'zix mid but there isn't much about AP MF.

MazariamontiSep 1, 20162 votes

Instead of Amumu? Well, Amumu is an immobile melee champion, MF is ranged. Ranged is superior in most cases for mid lane. You typically need 'some' kind of ranged ability or vastly superior mobility to not get dumpstered in mid. Amumu's only ranged ability is his engage tool. MF's aoe had very good synergy with liandry's torment. It was capable of putting out some insane levels of damage. It's actually something which might be worth considering again since they made the MF q apply on hit effects. But I'll probably wait for pre season before going back into the lab.

No Yellow NorcoOct 8, 20162 votes

And what's really bothersome, is that people like that are a cause of about 85% of the "toxicity" that I see. But, instead of addressing the causes, they just keep throwing around chat bans. Which is why nothing is improving. A player can troll someone else's lane, the person can call them a troll and ask for a report, and then get punished. All while the original troll goes into the next game and does it again anyway. It literally makes no sense.

Troll for TrumpSep 1, 20161 votes

Keeping teambuilder would fix this.

But this is to "encourage off-meta builds"

Look, idgaf if you're trying to go off meta, I don't want to deal with friggin Talon support

crippler38Sep 1, 20162 votes

talon actually has strong poke as a support and decent cc plus his all in is rather strong especially post six. He can get his gold from kills to help him snowball rather hard and if you have an adc with a slow then he's just even stronger.

Troll for TrumpSep 3, 20161 votes

HIs poke is limited in range, and puts him at risk. It's not poke, and you should never use Talon's W as poke, due to it's horrible mana efficiency early on. He needs gold. If he takes kills from the ADC, that puts the ADC behind. If he only gets assists and no gold, he will be really behind. Talon is a feast/famine ish type. His Q you can harass melees with, but melee supports have CC, so that's risky. He has no escape for an all in, until lvl 6. He's weak to Blitz, Thresh, Ali, and Leona. As an assassin, Alistar and Lulu can also easily dispose of him, with their anti-all in kits. He's also weak to poke for pretty much the entire laning phase.

crippler38Sep 3, 20162 votes

TL:DR every pick is situational, some less than others. Every decision situational with some less than others. Killing the enemy bot lane and the kill going onto your support can't possibly put your adc behind their adc because they should be getting farm from minions and ahead by virtue of the enemy being dead and unable to farm.

Ok first off, killing the adc will never put your adc behind it'll make them snowball less than if they themselves got the kill, if they're behind it's because they missed cs and are doing something wrong with the lead they've been spoon fed by killing the enemy as soon as they walk into lane. Their adc is dead and cannot farm or get exp so it would be impossible for the act of murder to put them behind, second against squishier supports or adcs with no escapes talon just existing can basically chunk you down to half hp and run away. It's situational mind you but so are pretty much all supports except thresh. The point of picking a talon support is he can snowball lanes really hard and if he gets even one kill he hurts too much to even walk up to especially once he hits six.

Support is a position, not a champion, while conventional supports are less likely to be incredibly hard countered if things go wrong like most assassins they also can't cripple the enemy team as hard by simply utterly demolishing people on the other team.

Picking talon in the bot lane has the same reasoning of taking say taric in the jungle or toplane or of putting soraka up top or sona mid, you do it to have talon in your team comp.

Troll for TrumpSep 3, 20161 votes

Some picks just don't work well.

For the offmeta examples, they all have things that work well(except maybe soraka top, but she has her own benefits). They have UNCONDITIONAL things which suit their lane(or jgl). Talon doesn't have anything. You won't be using your E against a duo lane until lvl 6. He does have base damages, but it puts him at extreme risk, pre-6. Once again, if you use your W as a poke, it will burn through mana like heck, put you at extreme risk due to a lack of escapes, and, because it is AoE, it will push the waves.

When you're ahead, you want the ADC to become godlike. If you compete with the kills, both of you will be behind what you "should be", if you were the one with basically all the gold(A 1/0/8 Blitz and 7/0/1 ADC is better than a 4/0/4 Talon and the same ADC).

Talon's too situational. If you pick him as a support, you will lose more often than not. If you don't win the lane, you can't build utility. He has no utility. You need kills.

No, if you're a squishy support, you're not going to stand there while Talon EWAAQs you. You or your adc will cc him. Talon has no escape after that(except flash). You can do half the squishies HP, but you will die. If you do that trade, you, and possibly the ADC will die. No. Supports are never as conditional as Talon. Because they have utility. A team can always use utility, or tankiness. Teams don't want "squishiness". They don't want "no utility". Keep in mind with Talon, buying support items will also put you further behind. But not buying support items will put your team behind. The only thing Talon has to offer is dmg, and there are various picks that can best him in that,and those picks also have more utility and range then him.

If you want an AD assassin bot, Zed fits the bill much better than Talon. What's your build path for Talon? Which gold item?

crippler38Sep 3, 20161 votes

I personally didn't build it but I saw it built and it was pretty good a while ago, but the person built ancient coin into eye of the oasis, this solves a lot of your regen problems so you can let your adc basically freeze lane and sit in a bush or something until the enemy goes up to last hit, if they do you jump on then do your thing while your adc follows up (works best with someone who can instantly engage like a jhin, cait, kali, or luc.) Since you picked talon into someone who has no escapes and you're clearly going to pack ignite once you and the adc jump onto someone you basically knock most squishy characters down incredibly low so that will almost always burn their regen and scare em so that they have to pick one of two options, farm or don't. From there you either roam around and kill people (talon's burst is of course very very good aoe and instant) basically becoming a second jungler or keep terrifying the enemy bot lane by existing so they can't farm without you and your adc jumping on them. Their jungler comes in then unless it's someone tanky enough to survive a talon and one of the adc's I've listed's burst for more than 2 seconds (plus hopefully an ignite but you don't get to really decide if it'll be up when the jungler comes) then you will hopefully kill the jungler before they can do much even in the river (since the enemy will be used to at least you vanishing from the map by now and you're counter ganking their jungler from your own lane along with your adc then it'll be a pretty easy way to at least scare him off.)

This of course all relies on the enemy picks, I do agree zed does fit better but talon still has some way of making it work it just depends on some coordination and the stars aligning for the draft.

LordGeovanniSep 4, 20161 votes

the reason why you would brun through talon mana if you sue w as poke is because you dont poke in kill lanes mage supports will always outdo you. you go in hard and force early fights and take control of the lane that is the purpose of kill lanes just because you don't know that and cant do it doesn't make it bad

LordGeovanniSep 4, 20161 votes

any one that says that taking kills from an adc puts them behind is brain dead. In a situation where you dont kill the enemy adc at all you are even but in a situation where you kill the enemy and make them mis gold and exp from farm just because you didnt get the kill puts you behind thats bs you just arent as ahead as you would like to be but never behind

LordGeovanniSep 4, 20161 votes

garentee you wont deal with it if you dont play the game

Troll for TrumpSep 5, 20161 votes

Kinda a prick, aren't you?

LordGeovanniSep 12, 20161 votes

Do you want truth or a babysitter?