Boards›Gameplay

Patch 8.11 will be the end of tanks.

Dasdi96··3 votes·6,587 views

I get that we had a tank meta a few months ago, but it looks like tanks will be dead in 8.11. There is already a ton of true damage in the game with the latest champion designs. Now there is conqueror which does a lot of true damage. With the new item 3031, a triple crit adc will deal 27% more dps to a tank with 200 armour and 45% more dps to a tank with 300 armour. Assassins will start building last whisper upgrades again now its total armour pen and can deal more damage against tanks. This will get to the point where tanks will only be able to use 1 rotation. I get that tanks must eventually die, but what's the point of playing one if you straight up get bursted every fight? By the way adcs had no problem killing tanks once they got 3 crit items. Math: 200 armour: Old IE: DPS = (1+0.8*1.5)100/(100+200)AD = 0.733AD New IE: DPS = 0.4AD+1.6100/(100+200) = 0.933AD % increase = 27% 300 armour: Old IE: DPS = (1+0.81.5)*100/(100+300)AD = 0.550AD New IE: DPS = 0.4AD+1.6100/(100+300) = 0.800AD % increase = 45%

15 Comments

Lost R2 votes

Everyone always claims every patch is the end of the tank meta, and they have been for at least four years now. It seems like more of an excuse for people to only play ADCs and assassins, because I see more of them with every subsequent patch.

You have not lived until you've seen nine people screaming in allchat over who did or didn't get Yasuo.

Zezilian1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RgbAaF7i,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-07T03:49:51.299+0000)

You have not lived until you've seen nine people screaming in allchat over who did or didn't get Yasuo.

That's a good one :D

Khristophoros2 votes

Tanks are picked for their CC and engage. There's never going to be a meta without tanks unless another champ archetype can consistently take over their job.

remakoro1 votes

Ooooh yea. We totally never had poke meta or other kind of dumb shit where 2 team just try to make pickoff without ever engaging/initiating. And there is totally no champions that can initiate super good without being tanks MonkeyKing Varus Riven Orianna Lissandra LeeSin Gragas Annie And we totally have no CC on anyone except tanks -_- (half of the champions go here)

Khristophoros1 votes

The meta isn't going to be driven that way by armor pen or true damage. It's going to be basically which champs win lane in the meta.

SEKAI2 votes

The funny thing is that tank meta never existed. Even back in the days of S4 or so where everybody said it was tank meta, it was just like 3-4 of them being super strong and that was it; and all subsequent supposed revival of tank meta were all absolutely false.

The only real tank meta days were the S2, which not only was eons away but also nobody remembered it as the tank meta season even though it clearly was with the dominance of HP stacking and meta-golems. Hilarious, eh?

egOrhythm3 votes

{quoted}

The funny thing is that tank meta never existed. Even back in the days of S4 or so where everybody said it was tank meta, it was just like 3-4 of them being super strong and that was it; and all subsequent supposed revival of tank meta were all absolutely false.

The only real tank meta days were the S2, which not only was eons away but also nobody remembered it as tank meta. Hilarious, eh?

So that's why we saw all those triple tank comps in pro play for... oh I don't know... more than a year?

SEKAI2 votes

{quoted}

So that's why we saw all those triple tank comps in pro play for... oh I don't know... more than a year?

Never mind the fact it is more to do with the simple nature that pros are going to be more conservative about their plays as well as that game is now so snowball so pros are opting for more turtles, and that they don't actually build them tank champs all tank themselves and instead are mostly seen used and built as either off-support or frontline DPS with some innate tankiness and engage.

But no, I guess pros playing safer and opting more tanks means tanks are broken. Why do you think LoL has come to such an extreme damage creep over the years, if not for the fact Riot and the likes of you won't stop until you see the day where damage dealers become so overpowered tanks have become completely obsolete even in professional matches (as in, the day when tanks outright can no longer tank at all because the damage is just so unfathomably high, and so it becomes more logical to simply go for higher damage to kill the other team first before they 1-shot you.... oh yeah, I think we can see the pattern already)? Can't you see the utter insanity in your request?

D357R0Y3R1 votes

{quoted}

Never mind the fact it is more to do with the simple nature that pros are going to be more conservative about their plays as well as that game is now so snowball so pros are opting for more turtles

it's more like tanks cannot lose lane, bring a huge power of engage that got powercreeped with zac/ornn, and tanks cannot die right now while dealing as much damage as bruisers

every single fucking time i watch a tank in pro, the champ is able to tank for a full 10 or 13 seconds, but since in regular play they engage 1v5 tank mains complain about getting killed too quickly when they actually suck cocks

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

it's more like tanks cannot lose lane, bring a huge power of engage that got powercreeped with zac/ornn, and tanks cannot die right now while dealing as much damage as bruisers

every single fucking time i watch a tank in pro, the champ is able to tank for a full 10 or 13 seconds, but since in regular play they engage 1v5 tank mains complain about getting killed too quickly when they actually suck cocks

There is a big difference between 2-4 out of all tanks being arguably overbearing, and the entire class being OP. You don't say all mages are OP because Ryze is broken in pro play (unless you're Riot's balance team who actually seems to think with logic like that), so why should you hold tanks to that standard of evaluation? And even if that's the rationale to use, I'm pretty darn sure there are other things to bitch about, because pro play is basically 2-4 tanks played on rotation, meanwhile there are other classes where more of its lineup are far more involved in pro play, like idk, marksmen for an example where it's 9-10 tournament viable picks on rotation?

Also, tanks don't tank for 10+ seconds, you're so wrong about that. ToK rarely if ever last 5 seconds even for tanks these days under any substantial focusing, let alone 10 or even more. The only scenario in which that may happen is if you include poking before or after the major fight, which in that case then everyone lasts more than 10 seconds so why should you care.

And tanks are supposed to fucking engage and actually take a punch. It's kind of hilarious that LoL players these days have been conditioned with so insane level of BS, that they actually think a tank behaving and doing their job like a tank is actually a bad thing. What's next, are you gonna tell me a carry being actually weak in early game is not supposed to happen and that they should be strong in all stages of the game and overbearing even in their weakest phase especially when combined with a support? Oh, hang on...

D357R0Y3R2 votes

{quoted}

There is a big difference between 2-4 out of all tanks being arguably overbearing,

2 or 4 tanks?

trundle and olaf outcrowding any junglers building full tank, engage for their team, not doing any damage at all just bringing a bunch of utility and distract enemies being more tanky than sejuani while being hard to pin down same with fucking skarner

then you have zac with his imba engage support role is dominated by tanks and toplane is dominated by ornn sion gnar

in the jungle role you kha'zix who is getting nerfed, graves who rised and that's it in the top role you have gp and camille as carries and that's it

remind me again HOW THE FUCK we're not in a tank meta wwhen pros pick renekton conqueror and get smashed in lane and later by ornn in 1v1

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

2 or 4 tanks?

trundle and olaf outcrowding any junglers building full tank, engage for their team, not doing any damage at all just bringing a bunch of utility and distract enemies being more tanky than sejuani while being hard to pin down same with fucking skarner

then you have zac with his imba engage support role is dominated by tanks and toplane is dominated by ornn sion gnar

in the jungle role you kha'zix who is getting nerfed, graves who rised and that's it in the top role you have gp and camille as carries and that's it

remind me again HOW THE FUCK we're not in a tank meta wwhen pros pick renekton conqueror and get smashed in lane and later by ornn in 1v1

If you categorise anybody who isn't a glass cannon to be a tank, ofc tanks seem everywhere. But that doesn't mean that logic is sound, because it's not like the game only has 2 classes between tank and damage dealer. There is a difference between being tanky and being a tank, just like there's a difference between doing a lot of damage and being a burst mage. See the difference?

The general idea of tank is someone who disrupts (the way in which they pose a threat) the enemy formation and is tanky, though disruption can be varying from some kind of damage threat to CC, but it's all agreed upon that to be formally classified a tank one must have multiple strong CCs up their belt and be mostly oriented around the usage of CC to disrupt enemy.

Trundle and Olaf are not tanks; both of them do not have strong CCs themselves (unless you count Trundle's niche pillar knockup, which is only put in there with a very small hitbox and given a grand total of 1 true damage because the champion was originally designed to be a manifestation of internet trolls; but even then, that count as only 1 strong CC out of Trundle's entire kit). Both of which are tanky duelists who poses threat via their equally distributed pure offensive and defensive power (like Renekton) for their bullying/dueling power; though also because Trundle is also specifically picked to counter tanks due to his stat-drain, and Olaf is picked due to his unstoppable initiation (of running in while on steroid)..

Skarner is also not a tank, he's more of a duelist than anything as far as his base kit is concerned for the same reason as Trundle and Olaf. And he is a pro scene super-star mostly because of his ulti's insane PICK potential, not disruption, which Riot insists on keeping even though it's all kinds of problem itself; but not because he is a tank because he isn't. Skarner is closer to someone like Vi than he is to someone like say, Maokai.

Gnar is only occasionally a tank, and instead of being a problem of tanks in general, he is his own problem called "being a fcuking hybrid of a marksmen and a tank while being also kind of resourceless". But even then, it's not like he's a trouble atm, considering he lost ALL of the games in the most recent pro matches so it's not like he's ruining everybody's fun like he used to.

......

It's also worth noting that there is only 1 tank in the top 5 pick/ban in top lane in the recent pro games, being Ornn, and the rest are not tanks; GP, Camille, Vlad, and Swain. And outside of Ornn, Sion, and Gnar who is loosely a tank, there are only 2-3 other tanks picked in top lane in recent pro games and all of them are seen with very little pick/ban (out of 14 top lane champs picked).

Looking over to jungle, there are only 2 tanks in total, out of 12 junglers picked in pro play. And the stronger of the 2, Zac, sits at 21% pick/ban with 4 games picked in total and lost 3 of them.

In terms of support, Alistar and Braum are used a lot who take place as #4 and #2 picked support respectively, sure. But the most used are still going to be Rakan who sits at #1, and there's also Morgana who sits at #3. In terms of total pick/ban, Rakan and Morgana sit at #2 an #1 with 96% pick/ban evenly, approaching 100%; while Braum sits at #3 with 54% pick/ban (which is a FAR way from 96%), followed by Thresh and Karma then finally back to Alistar at 42% for all 3, then Irelia at 17%, Leona lagging so behind at 13%, and poor Soraka at 4% pick/ban with only 1 match played in total. Out of the the total of 48 picks spread by all supports, tank supports (between Braum, Alistar, and Leona) have won 8 games in total, the same amount in which Rakan has under his belt on his own (Rakan himself has 8 wins). Hardly showcasing support is dominated by tanks, really; tanks have a good presence, but I won't use the term "dominated" at all.

......

The only true tank troublemakers as far as we could see atm are Ornn and maybe Sion, and that's mostly it; and only Ornn is a big deal due to his high pick/ban. I am not wrong to say that only about 2-4 tanks are issues on their own, though in reality, only Ornn is actually a problem it would seem. It's kind of hypocritical to specifically focus on tanks merely because they are actually played in pro scene (which some people seem to have issues even just on this basis like wot) and one or 2 of them being meta simply because of inevitability.

Let's just say there are far more borked shit out there.

That and, there's the 'confusing between tank and someone who's tanky' stuff. We don't confuse different classes who all do tons of damage, but for some reason a lot of people seem to be unable to grasp the idea that not everyone who can take punches is a tank, for some reason. I mean sure, Trundle is a big deal, but he really isn't a tank as far as his kit design goes; same goes for Olaf and a couple others.

Source: http://www.gamesoflegends.com/champion/picksandbans.php?id=MSI%20Play-In%202018&league=ALL&season=ALL&split=ALL&patch=ALL&role=ALL

egOrhythm1 votes

{quoted}

Never mind the fact it is more to do with the simple nature that pros are going to be more conservative about their plays as well as that game is now so snowball so pros are opting for more turtles, and that they don't actually build them tank champs all tank themselves and instead are mostly seen used and built as either off-support or frontline DPS with some innate tankiness and engage.

But no, I guess pros playing safer and opting more tanks means tanks are broken. Why do you think LoL has come to such an extreme damage creep over the years, if not for the fact Riot and the likes of you won't stop until you see the day where damage dealers become so overpowered tanks have become completely obsolete even in professional matches (as in, the day when tanks outright can no longer tank at all because the damage is just so unfathomably high, and so it becomes more logical to simply go for higher damage to kill the other team first before they 1-shot you.... oh yeah, I think we can see the pattern already)? Can't you see the utter insanity in your request?

Someone has already made my point for me in regards to tanks being made out of papier mache, but regrettably I can't find the thread again and quite honestly I'm tired of this incessant circlejerk about "muh ADCs do ten trillion damage with one zeal item".

But for the sake of responding, look at the MSI game where it was a Caitlyn versus a tank Shen (apologies to the teams who played, I can't remember their names, probably PGM vs DW). The situation went as follows: Caitlyn is doing damage to squishies like she usually does with high crit damage and basically wiping the floor with them. In comes tank Shen with 4K health. Caitlyn auto attacks him. 130 damage.

Tanks don't pop as soon as ADCs look at them. And in regards to the damage creep being so high yes that is a problem and it majorly needs to be scaled back. I've been screaming about this for god knows how long. HOWEVER! I also see WHY the damage creep has gotten so out of hand, at least to a certain respect. And that has to do with ADC tank buster items. Of which there are only TWO, and one of them is not really as good as it should be. Blade of the ruined king, and last whisper. BotrK is not a core item on quite a few ADCs and last whisper comes in so late in the game that by the time it does the tank(s) on the enemy team have stacked 5000 health and 300 armor and even with BortK and LW there is a REALLY good chance that 1v1 a tank might kill an ADC.

On top of that, quite a few tanks have built in sustain that rivals ADCs with life steal. A Maokai healing himself for 1000 health while he constantly CCs you and deals absurd amounts of damage in a 1v1 has a really good shot at killing an ADC unless he's up against a hypermobile ADC or one with self-peel.

Are we not forgetting Sejuani with Cinderhulk being able to have a Warmog's as second buy and break the 3K health threshold?

In regards to Pros playing conservatively, yes that has been the norm for quite a while. I absolutely understand their mentality: farm up, get items, don't take unnecessary risks, fight when you're strong. That has always been the modus operandi for the most part because there's a lot on the line. The triple tank meta however has NOT always been the norm.

Look I'm with you on scaling down damage creep. Absolutely. But we also have to address the fact that tank items are incredibly cost effective for their price, and they have arguably the best synergy. People like to circlejerk about zeal items to the tune of borderline nauseating repetition but it's like everyone is forgetting that bramble vest and tabis (before and after nerf) cost 2200 gold. Hell, forgo the tabis and rush a bramble vest and that's 1100 gold that's going to shut down an ADC until mid-late game. Once you address the hard reality that tank items need a nerf across the board, then you start scaling down ADC items. Once you scale down ADC items, you scale down mage items. Once you scale down mage items, you scale down assassin items, etc. etc.

Despite my constant berating of the balance team, they have moments of clarity, such as changing LW to ignoring total armor, because it seems we've overlooked basic statistics like the ludicrous armor growth on tanks.

Yaśuo Main1 votes

Cinderhulk meta was about the same time as tank meta which was around S5-S6. I'm pretty sure Zac was also rampaging by one shotting people with just cinderhulk at the same time

Harut1 votes

Isn't the tank meta already dead? The tank with the highest play rate is Zac at ~4%. No one plays tanks anymore.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Dasdi96

Riot, you need to hold the marksman class to the same standards of counterplay.
Gameplay184 comments
199
votes
Can we remove the minion auto pushing thing?
Gameplay110 comments
181
votes
Twitch is a ranged aoe rengar.
Gameplay143 comments
167
votes
Can riot admit that zoe was a complete fucking failure of a champion?
Gameplay157 comments
166
votes
"We reworked kha and rengat because 1 shot from stealth was unfair."
Gameplay168 comments
160
votes
Once season 6 starts, laning against zed as a mage will be a total nightmare.
Gameplay229 comments
149
votes