Non-AA based junglers just starve in the jungle when they don't have blue buff. There needs to be an increase on the mana regen, or perhaps alterations on base mana regen for several characters. As it stands you ether clear 2 camps, or you gank and it really isn't acceptable because it puts you behind in farm badly. It also makes trailblazer an absolute necessity, making every other smite ability a much weaker option by comparison.
warpenguin5551 votesBlue Buff?
Sightless661 votesThat has a 2 minute duration, and it's not something you're guaranteed to have. Not really going to fix the problem.
Rebonack1 votesBlue Buff?
Your Mid expects you to give them the second one even if they've been feeding the enemy mid like a fancy all you can eat buffet.
Drunk Rummate1 votesbuy some mana potions
Bears Dont Care1 votesbuy some mana potions
You take severe damage from jungle creeps. You're spending a signficant amount of gold on pots instead of wards. Its just turning the jungle meta into utility based junglers like Lee sin who don't need a large amount of gold to stay viable. Evelynn? Needs gold and levels. The new jungle offers less of both, hits her harder meaning her already weak ganks are weaker now. Tank like Naut and Sejuani? Clear too slowly and just get trucked in the jungle now. Lee sin? Still god.
Jungle's in a very odd place, and hopefully they'll make adjustments. The pool of viable junglers feels smaller now, not larger.
Drunk Rummate1 votesbuy some mana potions
You take severe damage from jungle creeps. You're spending a signficant amount of gold on pots instead of wards. Its just turning the jungle meta into utility based junglers like Lee sin, because assassin junglers like evelynn get destroyed in the jungle and mana starved, and tank junglers don't clear fast enough to not get trucked by the mobs.
Jungle's in a very odd place, and hopefully they'll make adjustments. The pool of viable junglers feels smaller now, not larger.
i think it's in a pretty good place to be honest. it stretches the early lane phase a bit and it makes early ganking a large investment rather than the typical buff/wolves/buff auto gank we see every game. now you have to make a legitimate decision as to whether it's worth trying to gank with your limited resources or to farm so that your on next recall you can afford the sustain to do more.
the main issue i'm seeing right now is with high sustain junglers (fiddle, WW, udyr). there needs to be some sort of visible setback to playing these champions over other options and there currently isnt.
Bears Dont Care1 votesi think it's in a pretty good place to be honest. it stretches the early lane phase a bit and it makes early ganking a large investment rather than the typical buff/wolves/buff auto gank we see every game. now you have to make a legitimate decision as to whether it's worth trying to gank with your limited resources or to farm so that your on next recall you can afford the sustain to do more.
The problem is that the jungle affords you far too little gold and exp. If a lane begins falling behind and you go up for a gank to try and recover it, but fail, you fall even further behind. We had a game where our Top lane died to riven once, and that was enough to completely screw the lane because the jungle just does not give enough gold and exp to help compete.
Junglers are always 2 levels below the laner as well, so your ganks are a lot weaker now. It's no longer a matter of decision, now its "oh the enemy got a kill? That solo lane is doomed now.
I am all right with preventing early level ganks, but the jungle is so very restrictive for most junglers that a gank becomes nigh impossible with the level difference.
the main issue i'm seeing right now is with high sustain junglers (fiddle, WW, udyr). there needs to be some sort of visible setback to playing these champions over other options and there currently isnt.
They can't gank until 6 and their ganks (WW) are weak without an ult.
Drunk Rummate1 votesi think it's in a pretty good place to be honest. it stretches the early lane phase a bit and it makes early ganking a large investment rather than the typical buff/wolves/buff auto gank we see every game. now you have to make a legitimate decision as to whether it's worth trying to gank with your limited resources or to farm so that your on next recall you can afford the sustain to do more.
The problem is that the jungle affords you far too little gold and exp. If a lane begins falling behind and you go up for a gank to try and recover it, but fail, you fall even further behind. We had a game where our Top lane died to riven once, and that was enough to completely screw the lane because the jungle just does not give enough gold and exp to help compete.
Junglers are always 2 levels below the laner as well, so your ganks are a lot weaker now. It's no longer a matter of decision, now its "oh the enemy got a kill? That solo lane is doomed now.
Well ideally they can tweak the jungle experience numbers to find something appropriate. I do think that it gives too little based on the difficulty of camps right now. With regards to the bit on the laner that fell behind to the enemy riven - the thing I like about the new jungle are the higher respawn times on camps. Strategys like "Godyr" actually run out of camps to farm and are forced to interact if they want optimal experience and gold. I'd like to see more actions taken in this direction, but tailored so that this happens to more champions rather than just the champions with exceptional clear speeds. That way we see junglers moving strategically without sacrificing all of their scaling.
the main issue i'm seeing right now is with high sustain junglers (fiddle, WW, udyr). there needs to be some sort of visible setback to playing these champions over other options and there currently isnt.
They can't gank until 6 and their ganks (WW) are weak without an ult.
It's true that WW can't offer too much in an early gank, but Udyr and Fiddle both have exceptionally strong ganks pre6 if you can get in range to use any of their abilities. That just comes down to communicating with your laner about wards and positioning, or taking the time to do a lane gank from the brush.
Tabs1 votesCould you list a few of the junglers you are refering to? Im not trying to prove you wrong, Im just curious because I have not noticed any new mana starvation on my current main junglers.
Bears Dont Care1 votesCould you list a few of the junglers you are refering to? Im not trying to prove you wrong, Im just curious because I have not noticed any new mana starvation on my current main junglers.
Biggest offenders would be Evelynn and Elise at the moment. Both of those champs had their mana costs increased at some point iirc. A single rotation of Elise's human abilities takes half your mana, and until mid game where you've built an item such as Frozen heart, you'll be starved quite a bit.
You can't really refrain from using your abilities either since without them you wont have spiderlings to tank the jungle mobs and you'll take a good chunk of damage.
If you use anything besides trailblazer it becomes an even greater issue, you really can't stay in lane to help pressure with the severe mana issues.
Bears Dont Care1 votesWell ideally they can tweak the jungle experience numbers to find something appropriate. I do think that it gives too little based on the difficulty of camps right now. With regards to the bit on the laner that fell behind to the enemy riven - the thing I like about the new jungle are the higher respawn times on camps. Strategys like "Godyr" actually run out of camps to farm and are forced to interact if they want optimal experience and gold. I'd like to see more actions taken in this direction, but tailored so that this happens to more champions rather than just the champions with exceptional clear speeds.
I like the higher respawn timers, it makes counter jungling worthwhile, its just a problem that if your jungler is set back, he stays behind the entire game right now, and if a lane is losing, the chance of recovering it is very, very slim due to the level difference. Hell, I had a riven who was 4 levels higher than me after 2 kills just roll into the jungle and curbstomp my head in with ease.
That is not acceptable for a level difference right now, and not something that happened in the old jungle.
It's true that WW can't offer too much in an early gank, but Udyr and Fiddle both have exceptionally strong ganks pre6 if you can get in range to use any of their abilities. That just comes down to communicating with your laner about wards and positioning, or taking the time to do a lane gank from the brush.
Ironically i do think WW is perhaps the most balanced in that regard in lacking ganking ability pre-6. The other two rival him in sustain and can still do early ganks. Lee sin can as well if you abuse his life steal.
Akeito1 votes
The dream
Bears Dont Care1 votes
The dream
Someday Clarity will be viable.
DefenderOfFaith1 votesYou know, I tried fiddle in the new jungle and wtf he got smashed. Maybe I need to re-do his runes with more armor? no idea.
My Amumu + other AD champions (Vi, WW (sort of), J4, Yi, etc..) seem to be doing just fine.
I don't know what happened to poor fiddle.