Rylai's Idea- Dividing It Into Two Items

Meep Man··27 votes·1,461 views

Staff of the Watchers item 1026 + item 3108 + item 1027 + 1100 Gold = 3200 Gold +550 Mana +75 Ability Power +20% Cool Down Reduction UNIQUE Passive- Arcane Frost: Spells slow enemies based on the spell.


Rylai's Crystal Scepter item 1011 + item 3108 + item 1028 + 900 Gold = 3200 Gold +650 Health +55 Ability Power +10% Cool Down Reduction UNIQUE Passive- Arcane Frost: Spells slow enemies based on the spell.


(Numbers are tentative)

This way, there is a version of the item for both AP Mages and AP Bruisers and both parties are happy. Staff of the Watcher's is a new caster item that provides a decent little bit AP and Mana along with the slow passive. It is a squishier version of Rylai's, which has been modified to give more health and less ability power, but also gain 10% CDR as well. There is also an idea to make a miniature version that builds into both of these items that provides AP, but I don't think anyone wants a mini-Rylai's for early game (or at least wants to play against it).

42 Comments

Malicious Metal19 votes

http://img.pandawhale.com/90151-Sauron-upvote-gif-imgur-lS85.gif

Why does one party have to be screwed anyways?

Though Meddler stated he wanted to nerf the slow anyways, which is a no brainer, 40% slows are a tad too strong. 30% MAX

Meep Man2 votes

That's actually the main reason I didn't go into details in the Slow passive because I know it is getting changed. Anyways, yes. There's no reason to basically break the item for Mordekaiser Vladimir Kennen Rumble Singed Katarina Akali (at varying degrees) just because the item is too strong in general. An idea I have is to add range thresholds for the item based on whether you buy Staff or Scepter. Staff would be unable to slow up close enemies and Scepter unable to slow very distant enemies.

Paying1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Regj4T8E,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-10-12T13:24:53.975+0000)

That's actually the main reason I didn't go into details in the Slow passive because I know it is getting changed. Anyways, yes. There's no reason to basically break the item for Mordekaiser Vladimir Kennen Rumble Singed Katarina Akali (at varying degrees) just because the item is too strong in general. An idea I have is to add range thresholds for the item based on whether you buy Staff or Scepter. Staff would be unable to slow up close enemies and Scepter unable to slow very distant enemies.

So what you're saying is that rumble would have to suffer either losing the bonus slow on his ultimate, or lose the bonus slow on his basic abilities?

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Regj4T8E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-12T13:22:23.374+0000)

http://img.pandawhale.com/90151-Sauron-upvote-gif-imgur-lS85.gif

Why does one party have to be screwed anyways?

Though Meddler stated he wanted to nerf the slow anyways, which is a no brainer, 40% slows are a tad too strong. 30% MAX

i dont think tuning down the slow strength alone would do much.

what needs to change is its interaction with aoe, damage over time abilities, and minions. basically a revert of the mechanics to the old rylais for mages.

i could see the curent rylais passive on an ap fighter focused item, but if they made a mage item with a slow passive, the passive would have to be much weaker than it is now.

Schoenberg1 votes

Logged in just to upvote after I saw it was a LOTR gif. :)

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Regj4T8E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-12T13:22:23.374+0000)

http://img.pandawhale.com/90151-Sauron-upvote-gif-imgur-lS85.gif

Why does one party have to be screwed anyways?

Though Meddler stated he wanted to nerf the slow anyways, which is a no brainer, 40% slows are a tad too strong. 30% MAX

Swain likes them. A lot. Press R, walk around, gg ez.

Ahristocats5 votes

So, mages continues to run around bursting people while also having utility?

Meep Man2 votes

Yeah, but now they are no longer getting defensive stats while doing so. Staff of the Watchers is the Offensive Utility version and Rylai's is the Defensive Utility version. Plus, I can bet that the passive is getting nerfed as well in the Pre-season, which is why I left it blank.

Ahristocats3 votes

so, burst+utility together still rings ok to you? because they're squishier?

if it still rings ok to you, explain me why would i buy any other item that isn't rylai as a mage?

Meep Man2 votes

Because the utility side is getting nerfed/modified in the Preseason to be not as strong globally useful. An idea I would have is to make Staff of the Watchers only apply to units currently more than 400-500 units away from the caster, and make Rylai's apply only to units within 550 units from the caster, to make each even less global of an item.

Ahristocats1 votes

alright, i admit this can work.

Meep Man1 votes

Yeah, it's not the focus of this thread so not gonna put it in the OP, but it's an idea for a direction Riot could go with the Passive if they do go this direction by splitting the item in two.

xBushx1 votes

Or make a more powerful Dual item that when BOTH Items are built it gives a New/more advanced passive.

Would be cool.

Meep Man1 votes

You mean like a giga-late game item?

xBushx1 votes

I mean like 2 items costing 7000 total gold but give an upgraded passive when both are bought.

Think items sets from WoW and Diablo.

Meep Man1 votes

Interesting idea for items. Not sure if it's a good fit for Rylai's though. The focus of separating the items is to make it to where the items are less global, not make it to where buying both gives a big bonus for people who buy both. This would limit item builds further than Rylai's already does. HOWEVER, I can see this working with other item's in the game, like Nashor's Tooth and Wit's End since both usually 1-UP each other based on which one is stronger, usually making people only buy one over the other. Giving a reward for buying both would be a cool idea. Same goes for other items, like Spirit Visage and Banshee's Veil or Randuin's and Deadman's.

xBushx1 votes

Yeah didn't necessarily mean Rylais, but just items in general. Make one AP one AD one Tank.

Meep Man1 votes

Yeah, that would be an interesting idea to test and see if the rest of the community likes. I can see a ton of potential in it.

xBushx1 votes

Or take it a step further make full build TRULY monstrous. With item sets that get a 4 item unique passive. Would make late game team fights insane.

Miraweave1 votes

That first one is absurd.

Meep Man1 votes

(Numbers are tentative)

SchmidttyGames1 votes

Or, they could really blow our minds and make it an active instead of a passive and change nothing else about it.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Meep Man1 votes

That doesn't really solve the issue of making it less global of an item though. It's just a straight nerf (depending on the active). While I agree it needs a nerf, it doesn't solve the issue of everyone buying it (or if it gets nerfed too much, no one buying it).

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Regj4T8E,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-10-12T13:57:18.399+0000)

That doesn't really solve the issue of making it less global of an item though. It's just a straight nerf (depending on the active). While I agree it needs a nerf, it doesn't solve the issue of everyone buying it (or if it gets nerfed too much, no one buying it).

neither does this. This just makes it more optimal on everything and removes any and of what little trade off exists from getting the item.

Meep Man1 votes

Which item?

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Regj4T8E,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-12T17:48:14.179+0000)

Which item?

The Current Rylais, which need be simple balanced by having the AP lowered back to what it was before riot had the genius idea of increasing it.

Drahcir1 votes

This is a great idea, it allows for riot to balance the two better, because they both have their niche.

Meep Man1 votes

Yeah, I feel like this is the best way to bring the item that makes everyone happy.

JDB8eoX8x01 votes

I think it's too overpowered. 650 health? From a player's perspective: I don't care about 600 mana. If you're gonna put a 650 health 60 AP item in the shop, I'll abuse the heck out of that instead of the mediocre 600 mana item that won't help me stay alive in a fight. What point is there in having 600 extra mana if I use 200 of it and then die anyway? They should just nerf the slow hard and then the item would be fine. Properly code that Cassiopeia's E is an exceptional case for single target slows the item would be fine.

Meep Man1 votes

Numbers are tentative, don't focus too hard on how balanced either are. I wanted more to introduce the idea.

It Hertz When IP1 votes

Swain, Ryze, and Singed would love having 600 extra mana.

Meep Man1 votes

I think Singed could honestly get either depending on what he needs in the game.

Blumpkin Nation1 votes

Yes. Now I can get Morello and Rylai's and max out my CDR.

Meep Man1 votes

From Morello + Athene's -> Morello + SotW

Sohleks1 votes

Those morellos stats with Rylias effect is too strong

a special one1 votes

NO!!! OH GOD PLEASE NO

BoilTheOil1 votes

if the first one was a thing item 3165 would be useless

l Dárius l1 votes

what part of "some champions can abuse rylais rush" is so difficult for people to get?

CrazyBear19871 votes

Remove passive, replace with an active and cooldown. Stop the spams

Spoofghoul1 votes

You should not divide it

the entire problem with rylais is that its literally on every ap champ everygame

right now this is true because it has no single downside to it

but if you split it into 2 options it again makes it so there isn't a downside to it and thus would not fix any of the problems with it, the always permaslowed every single game problem that is

It should be an alround usable option for ap focused champions

it would be better to drop the slow to 30% then remove a lot of the ap and give it extra health

health is useful for everyone and so are slows you would trade this for damage potential

Witch of Babylon1 votes

Whoa I love this

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