The steraks change is whatever

Tychusfindlay919·Nov 10, 2016·67 votes·2,428 views

The correct change would be to make it melee only and give it back the 100 hp it lost during the "ADCs build maw and steraks" fiasco in early season 6.

48 Comments

Malicious MetalNov 10, 201612 votes

Yeah, Juggernauts have fallen out of flavor anyways and the Sterak's nerf really hurt.

Giving it its original HP would be great.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 10, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rb9K2215,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-10T17:52:29.949+0000)

Yeah, Juggernauts have fallen out of flavor anyways and the Sterak's nerf really hurt.

Giving it its original HP would be great.

fallen out of flavor is putting it nicely.

Even darius, considered one of the healthiest juggernauts of the bunch, has been the victim of a falling win rate for the past 4 patches in a row (and I project that 6.22 will continue that trend).

The only juggernaut worth somewhat of a damn is nasus, because his ult changes were on point, and he doesn't really itemize the typical juggernaut items anyways (and is so unaffected by their changes/nerfs).

Riot has been doing this to juggernaut items and tank items for months, if not a year or two. They make them cheaper or make them cheaper AND water down their stats with the hope being... I don't know really. In reality, juggernauts and tanks don't reach their power spikes any earlier and instead scale right into the freaking gutter as tank and juggy items get hosed down again and again with the only upsides being these moronic price reductions.

We don't want price reductions anymore, we want actual items. Juggernauts have already been dead since early on in the season for pro play with the only real exceptions being Olaf and occasionally a trundle here and there. This idea that melee carries and late game tanks can't have late game itemization is bullshit.

Jeddy017Nov 10, 20164 votes

This pushes me towards favoring the Vanguards as the next roster update. It has been said there would be an overhaul on tank itemization making tank items better champ who should be building tanky rather than being universally effective on everyone & their mom. This would benefit Tanks & Fighters because tank items will likely be less effective on squishy champs & said tank items won't be nerfed because of those squishy champs.

Samflash3Nov 11, 20162 votes

I still vote for divers. Vanguards can be at the end of the season when they'll also look at ADCs and their importance as tank shredders.

Big LincolnNov 11, 20163 votes

to be fair divers are also affected by tank itemization and not vice versa.

I think vanguards should come first if just for that reason, and then riot can do some work on aatrox on his own so he doesn't have to wait for a class update

The Blue RajahNov 11, 20161 votes

Just a super minor quibble. I notice you always say "fallen out of flavor" and it triggers me every time since the phrase is "fallen out of favor."

Carry on.

Sire HippingtonNov 10, 20168 votes

For me the most important buff would be that the passive no longer has the same name as the Maw lifegrip. As long as i have to choose between the two, i will choose maw till steraks gets some huge buffs, and then maw will drop to the 'nearly never bought' stack. With steraks beeing melee only and maw no longer beeing an as great assasin-item, i think those two stacking will not cause huge abuse cases.

RalanrNov 10, 20161 votes

I mean, with edge of night existing u don't think we should get that many burst shields.

Sire HippingtonNov 10, 20165 votes

If an assasins stacks all those 3, it's damage will take a HUGE hit from that. The only ones that might use all 3 well are fighters, and they honestly can use some love.

Critmaster GarenNov 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I mean, with edge of night existing u don't think we should get that many burst shields.

steraks and maw dont stack anymore though. unless you mean banshees. in that case they could give it the same treatment and make banshees not stack with edge of the night.

you could activate both shields, but they get popped by the same spell.

AstôlfoNov 10, 20164 votes

Just my opinion, but all burst shield items should be melee only.

Bladerunner7777Nov 11, 20163 votes

Maw + Steraks is unhealthy for game balance (and frustrating to play against) if that's what you're implying

XengreNov 11, 20164 votes

This actually is not the way to fix things. Itemization is something that should be equal footing for all, no ranged/melee only as that is an extremely bad design philosophy when you have few wildcards that appear in an environment where everything else is equal. The entire issue surrounds the poor scaling of stats in League. They try to avoid making anything too powerful and balancing around that by keeping everything as mediocre/bad as possible. Look at some other Mobas/games that balance around making everything extremely strong but also balanced.

Why go glass canon/DPS when you get comparable damage while also going for substantial survivability? Damage should be allowed to scale to an extent that is fairly extreme, as should tankyness if you go heavily/all in. Bruiser SHOULD be the middle ground that is, frankly, fairly distance from either poles but solid all around and potentially stronger early/mid before the heavier scaling starts to kick in. Instead, bruiser can often deal damage within the region if not exceeding that of many DPS/burst champions and builds while being fairly tanky.

It really doesn't help when things like Graves/Ryze/Ezreal are designed within an environment that should obviously produce undesirable results, or failure to make any effort to resolve the problem champions rather than doing something odd for the items/effects.

Base stats and built in champion scaling would also play a huge role in how well this functions but they are largely the same bar ASPD and to a lesser extent health (such as Alistar), instead defined almost entirely by their ratios and your range (ignoring the obvious kit differences which is not shared between any champion).

Tychusfindlay919Nov 11, 20163 votes

{quoted}

This actually is not the way to fix things. Itemization is something that should be equal footing for all, no ranged/melee only as that is an extremely bad design philosophy when you have few wildcards that appear in an environment where everything else is equal. The entire issue surrounds the poor scaling of stats in League. They try to avoid making anything too powerful and balancing around that by keeping everything as mediocre/bad as possible. Look at some other Mobas/games that balance around making everything extremely strong but also balanced.

Why go glass canon/DPS when you get comparable damage while also going for substantial survivability? Damage should be allowed to scale to an extent that is fairly extreme, as should tankyness if you go heavily/all in. Bruiser SHOULD be the middle ground that is, frankly, fairly distance from either poles but solid all around and potentially stronger early/mid before the heavier scaling starts to kick in. Instead, bruiser can often deal damage within the region if not exceeding that of many DPS/burst champions and builds while being fairly tanky.

It really doesn't help when things like Graves/Ryze/Ezreal are designed within an environment that should obviously produce undesirable results, or failure to make any effort to resolve the problem champions rather than doing something odd for the items/effects.

Base stats and built in champion scaling would also play a huge role in how well this functions but they are largely the same bar ASPD and to a lesser extent health (such as Alistar), instead defined almost entirely by their ratios and your range (ignoring the obvious kit differences which is not shared between any champion).

Item specialization is not bad design. Ignored.

XengreNov 11, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Item specialization is not bad design. Ignored.

It isn't if it was regular, not extremely sparse with 99% of items equal among the entire massive champion roster. Try reading. Until you can acquire basic comprehension such a discussion with you is clearly not worth our time.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

It isn't if it was regular, not extremely sparse with 99% of items equal among the entire massive champion roster. Try reading. Until you can acquire basic comprehension such a discussion with you is clearly not worth our time.

Aye, stay downvoted.

Just because you make a verbose post doesn't mean the logic of it is sound. Arrogant asses are comical, but obstructive for little reason.

XengreNov 11, 20161 votes

Not surprised to see you resorting to insulting rather than logic to challenge me. Continue wasting time. Logic was provided and sound and has not been disputed by anyone here, yet, including you. Not verbose. If you can't provide a worthwhile discussion I will simply ignore further comments from you.

Automated RivenNov 11, 20161 votes

the problem is IMO that the only thing that scales to the extreme is ADC dps and in certain situations hyper carry mage dps. Burst in general just got gutted. I dont even think a full build assassin can assassinate anyone anymore. with possible exeptions of kha and ren. the scaling of tanks is pretty pathetic as there are more and more things introduced to counter their scaling. Tanks should beat assassins and fighters (to an extent) but playing an assassin your better off 1v1ing the tank then the adc at this point.

OdinakosNov 11, 20161 votes

I have seen most assasins perform well (and fail ofc). A fed LB can still one shot squishies. All assasins got Zed like delays but that doesnt mean they dont have the damage. Talon eg has more ad scaling (around 650% compared to around 450%) along with significant inreased roam potential. The fact is that most people playing them havent get used to the changes, but the potential is defenitely there.

As for adc they have 2 options. Go for armor pen or crit. The first while strong early, is weaker compared to assasins and doesnt scale well. The second take way to long to ramp up to reach that ridiculous state and a lot have to be sacrificed including probably the game. S6 was actually a sad state for adc as they had to go armor pen route to remain revelant or wait after 25 minutes to be a factor. That was on average 10 minutes of revelance. There were enouph games that i was more of a carry than my adc as Zyra support. And that was without negleting my support duties. Also it felt more profitable to neglect my adc in favor of neutral objectives or other lanes.

Irelia BotNov 11, 20162 votes

Why hshould you have to get in melee range to do 1000 damage crits when you can do it fro ma safe 550 or longer range?

SInce riot is not willing to provide items that scale off stats fighters and tansk tend to get we are lefel with this melee and ranged only situation.

Atma's needs to return.

XengreNov 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rb9K2215,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2016-11-11T05:13:26.307+0000)

Why hshould you have to get in melee range to do 1000 damage crits when you can do it fro ma safe 550 or longer range?

SInce riot is not willing to provide items that scale off stats fighters and tansk tend to get we are lefel with this melee and ranged only situation.

Atma's needs to return.

Definitely need some heavier scaling, including champ based so that melee can actually do more damage or be tankier to compensate for being melee as ranged have been beating them across the board for a while now even as bruisers. If they did so a ranged might crit for 1000 while that melee might do so for 1600 but the ranged is ranged and likely has dashes or some type of CC and positioning options to play safer. Alternatively, some melee might be inherently much tankier in scaling while doing 900 or so crits. This would, naturally, require some serious work on abilities beyond just numerical changes to implement which is a challenge.

Big LincolnNov 11, 20164 votes

i think sterak's stats should be better all around.

At the very least, give back the HP and let me keep the AD bonus for as long as I'm in combat. especially considering that Maw now gives you flat AD when the shield pops (25 iirc, which is only 10-15 less than what most juggernauts get from steraks normally, plus the 50 that's already on the item) on top of getting the sustain to stay alive, there's not really any reason for me to take sterak's unless they don't even have an AP threat.

The Yetii RiderNov 10, 20161 votes

Mundo is still Mundo from what I've seen. He functions phenomenally well with Cinderhulk and plenty of resistances (that's because his free AD is on-demand, unlike Darius's).

Tychusfindlay919Nov 10, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rb9K2215,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-10T20:42:44.620+0000)

Mundo is still Mundo from what I've seen. He functions phenomenally well with Cinderhulk and plenty of resistances (that's because his free AD is on-demand, unlike Darius's).

Wtf r u talking about.

The Yetii RiderNov 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Wtf r u talking about.

You said the only juggernaut worth somewhat of a damn is Nasus. I was adding that Mundo is doing pretty well too (and I think he will only get stronger this patch because he's impossible to assassinate).

Tychusfindlay919Nov 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rb9K2215,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-11-10T21:04:48.374+0000)

You said the only juggernaut worth somewhat of a damn is Nasus. I was adding that Mundo is doing pretty well too (and I think he will only get stronger this patch because he's impossible to assassinate).

His "on demand" AD is mixed because unlocking it to its full potential requires being low.

His ultimate sucks dick with how easy it is to get grievous wounds nowadays.

Mundo is irrelevant.

The Yetii RiderNov 10, 20163 votes

{quoted}

His "on demand" AD is mixed because unlocking it to its full potential requires being low.

His ultimate sucks dick with how easy it is to get grievous wounds nowadays.

Mundo is irrelevant.

Unlocking it to its full potential...it gives 110 AD minimum at rank 5. That's if you're at full health. Is that not enough? You don't need 200 extra AD to be relevant.

Morellonomicon got its GW nerfed, you have to be under 35%, and with the new Fearless Mastery it'll take even longer to get you down that far.

Mundo is fine.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rb9K2215,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-10T21:28:13.770+0000)

Unlocking it to its full potential...it gives 110 AD minimum at rank 5. That's if you're at full health. Is that not enough? You don't need 200 extra AD to be relevant.

Morellonomicon got its GW nerfed, you have to be under 35%, and with the new Fearless Mastery it'll take even longer to get you down that far.

Mundo is fine.

item 3033

OdinakosNov 11, 20161 votes

Mortal reminder is usually 4th item. If it within the first 3 and you have problem with the adc, then you are doing something wrong. Mages are more of a problem at that time and mid game is when Mundo is at his peak especially against adcs especially with the gold efficient tank items.

Champion SkinNov 11, 20161 votes

item 3123 800 gold for GW and 15 AD (worth about 525 gold) though yes it does delay the other items but really it isn't all that expensive of an utility item (and it can be quite powerful depending on how much healing/regen/Life steal the enemy team have)

DengedenNov 11, 20161 votes

The 100 health would be pretty dang useless on fighters especially. They usually lack the defenses to back it up. Fighters are all about item spikes. If you want 100 HP you can go use the Veteran's Scars mastery and you're halfway there and the fact that you won't need to buy it will make up for the remaining 50 health. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Tychusfindlay919Nov 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The 100 health would be pretty dang useless on fighters especially. They usually lack the defenses to back it up. Fighters are all about item spikes. If you want 100 HP you can go use the Veteran's Scars mastery and you're halfway there and the fact that you won't need to buy it will make up for the remaining 50 health. [slayer-jinx-wink]

It's not useless on juggernauts, its intended class of fighters.

I don't give a shit about the likes of Yasuo Riven Irelia Fiora etc. trying to find steraks useful.

DengedenNov 11, 20161 votes

It's terrible on juggers. HP stacking is pointless in a meta where tank stats fall off mid-late.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's terrible on juggers. HP stacking is pointless in a meta where tank stats fall off mid-late.

Not pointless, and hp scales great with many juggernauts since they have % hp heal.

DengedenNov 11, 20161 votes

In that case, run HP scaling runes and get the Vet mastery.

They only heal if they can reach their targets which Sterak's doesn't help you with at all.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

In that case, run HP scaling runes and get the Vet mastery.

They only heal if they can reach their targets which Sterak's doesn't help you with at all.

"In that case"

I accept your concession. Also, the extra tankiness and potential healing boosts help you better reach your target by allowing you more time to reach it. Anymore questions?

DengedenNov 12, 20161 votes

"I accept your concession"

And I accept yours. You go ahead and get HP from those other sources then.

The extra healing only applies against champions, i.e. when they've reached them already. Anymore questions?

Tychusfindlay919Nov 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"I accept your concession"

And I accept yours. You go ahead and get HP from those other sources then.

The extra healing only applies against champions, i.e. when they've reached them already. Anymore questions?

I conceded nothing.

When you used the phrase, "in that case" that indicates concession.

You're a waste of thought.

DengedenNov 13, 20161 votes

You said you wanted health, so I pointed you to sources from which you could get it otherwise.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You said you wanted health, so I pointed you to sources from which you could get it otherwise.

The point of the thread is I want it from an item meant for me in the first place, steraks gage.

DengedenNov 13, 20161 votes

Which is nothing but pointless bullheadedness. You'd rather have it less readily available and less flexibility on how to spend your gold just because ADCs used to buy that item.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Which is nothing but pointless bullheadedness. You'd rather have it less readily available and less flexibility on how to spend your gold just because ADCs used to buy that item.

I want steraks to not be subpar. That's the point of this thread. Being verbose about things won't make you change my mind or the minds of many others (particularly bruiser mains and even highly respected ones like maliciousmetal) on these boards.

You're irrelevant.

DengedenNov 13, 20161 votes

Yeah ignore what I say because it's "verbose". That's a new one lol. I'm quite aware that I haven't changed anyone's mind here. And your stubborn attitude is part of why.

Reducing the item's cost is objectively better for the reasons I stated.

You don't want Sterak's to be not subpar, you want an excuse to bash Riot.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah ignore what I say because it's "verbose". That's a new one lol. I'm quite aware that I haven't changed anyone's mind here. And your stubborn attitude is part of why.

Reducing the item's cost is objectively better for the reasons I stated.

You don't want Sterak's to be not subpar, you want an excuse to bash Riot.

It's inherently fallacious for you to try and dictate what I want to me. I know me best, not you.

Stay irrelevant.

DengedenNov 14, 20161 votes

If you wanted the item to be good, you'd accept the superior buff and not make another thread about ADCs.

Treepac 3theResQNov 11, 20161 votes

Sorry, but i'm unsure exactly of what change is being referred to here, as there is no notice of it in the 6.22 patch notes. Would greatly appreciate a description of the change, or at least a link to the announcement.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Treepac 2theResQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rb9K2215,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-11-11T16:35:43.342+0000)

Sorry, but i'm unsure exactly of what change is being referred to here, as there is no notice of it in the 6.22 patch notes. Would greatly appreciate a description of the change, or at least a link to the announcement.

It's 100 bucks cheaper.

ValyrianBladeNov 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The correct change would be to make it melee only

Seriously what is wrong with these boards and using "melee only" to solve every issue they see in this game?

When an item that was designed for melee champions is used by ranged champions, it does NOT mean that the item is broken on ranged champions. It means that ADC itemization is such garbage BS useless that they have to use suboptimal items designed for another class.

Now, if ADCs actually having real item options would make them too strong, we could see across the board nerfs to marksmen. That can't happen until they get real itemization though. As long as the only "good" itemization options that ADCs have are AD/AS/Crit/ArPen glass cannon builds that work great when they have lots of peel and can easily kill anyone but absolutely suck when you don't have peel or when an enemy assassin/mage/fighter/tank/marksmen gets ahead - marksmen will continue to be "balanced" in the current way.

The solution is: Give them real items actually made for them (also solves the problem of ADCs being so garbage when behind) Realize they're broken OP once those items exist Nerf the base stats / ratios of the whole class to balance it all out.