Why did you force Sona to build a full AP build and smack her for doing it?

RedCyclone·Jan 26, 2015·29 votes·4,659 views

Honestly I don't get it, she is incredibly unhealthy in that regard

Why does Riot remove all playstyles from a champion and only leave them with one viable build? And worst yet, why force a unpopular for supporting build and shittalk that she is too "oppressive" with it

In the past Sona could go Tanky support, aura support, AP support and still be fine and considered both "good and healthy" Now you HAVE to build 500 AP in the lategame because if you used any of the other builds, you would literally be as useful as you were at level 3

Want to stop the problems with Sona? how about making a change that people can appreciate rather then just reducing the numbers on everything Her Q is a problem because it's autotarget? solution MAKE IT A SKILLSHOT her W heals too much on champions with low HP? MAKE THE SHIELD STACK WITH %HP

29 Comments

DrCyanideJan 26, 20158 votes

And yet, when someone from Riot comes to the boards, they are confused why players don't think the rework was a success.

AbyssphereJan 27, 20158 votes

The idea that Riot were hoping to make Sona build less AP with the rework is ridiculous. She has terrible bases on EVERYTHING, her only way to be useful is by building AP. Build tank and the only thing you can do is ult and ... tank damage for 1 second? That's not going to work.

Even Diminuendo scales with AP for goodness sake.

Janna WindgaleJan 27, 20154 votes

To be really honest, when riot started to rework Sona, and I saw the changes coming up I thought by myself already this was going to be a huge problem.

Sona is played correctly, more overpowered than she was before. By enhancing the allies autos with magic damage, healing and shielding your allies and a movement speed buff that counts as an shurelia/talisman of ascension, is a huge problem.

If I had to say it, I would like to say that I would love to see Sona returning to her old kit, it fitted her more, and made her a very own champion.

Now it just feels like she has to be around someone to perform good, her W aura is what made her interesting due to the Armor and MR increase and the AD / AP Increase was just better than the passive she gives right now.

Riot wants to do the changes to balance champions, This is not the way to do it Riot.

Zair UmbrasJan 26, 20153 votes

Wut. If a Sona builds pure AP, all she does is die because she's super squishy and has to get in really close to use her ability. They even nerfed her ratios very recently as well as her movement speed. lol.

RedCycloneJan 26, 201521 votes

part of the point Riot seem to claim it's uncounterable

Zair UmbrasJan 26, 20158 votes

wut. Sona is countered by laughing at her as you burst her down. All she can do is poke. She has no escapes, no real tankiness after her W is pressed, and she's not long ranged, medium at best. A quick Leona E, Taric stun, Blitz grab, or any kind of CC and a full AP Sona is destroyed before she can get her ult off. Sure, she just hit two targets for maybe 200 or 300 damage, but those two were tanks and neither of them gave a crap. lol.

Rock RockburghJan 27, 20159 votes

We know this. A lot of red posts seem to imply that she's uncounterable, whether that's true or not.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Jan 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RVcgfEFz,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-01-26T22:32:08.469+0000)

wut. Sona is countered by laughing at her as you burst her down. All she can do is poke. She has no escapes, no real tankiness after her W is pressed, and she's not long ranged, medium at best. A quick Leona E, Taric stun, Blitz grab, or any kind of CC and a full AP Sona is destroyed before she can get her ult off. Sure, she just hit two targets for maybe 200 or 300 damage, but those two were tanks and neither of them gave a crap. lol.

How are you repeating OP's points? Learn to read.

TsundayJan 26, 20151 votes

Riot specifically stated when they reworked her they wanted Sona to have to build a little more defense, not to build full AP

Pika310Jan 26, 201514 votes

Force her to build something they themselves are simultaneously making less effective?

That sounds like Riot logic to a T. You've made a valid point, for once.

TsundayJan 26, 20151 votes

Frozen heart was one of the big items they pointed out for her. They said she needs CDR/Mana but she also shouldn't be building straight AP anymore because they made her more vulnerable. I feel like the reason why they keep nerfing her AP ratios is because when they reworked her they balanced her around building a little more bruiser than she was, they didn't plan for her to go full AP because going full AP made her squishy and gave her little sustainability. Honestly even after the last patch I, as well as people I was playing with were doing just fine playing full AP Sona mid. I went 3/0 against an Ahri in lane and a few games after an enemy Sona mid ended lane 6/1.

Her abilities are going to look pretty weak now because to you when she Ws you get a small shield, or when she Qs you get a small boost of damage, when a Sona is good and manages to time stuff and hit most of her teammates with her abilities you have to look at Sona clicking W + E as being a Karma Mantra E on like 1/4th the CD with an added heal.

Sona does decent damage in lane early game, and then Sona falls off in 2v2s around the end of lane (unless she gets ahead) imo, and she falls off in situations where she's doing smaller skirmishes, but I feel as though Sona (if built right with sustainability to position auras as needed) has great teamfight potentials even with low scalings because she's continuously buffing her whole team in a way no other support can. Other supports can give 1 or 2 teammates a buff at a time, Sona can have a team of 5 people with up to 3 different buffs.

I don't think she's forced to build AP, in fact I find these nerfs are to discourage her from doing so. I think she does well with standard support items such as Locket and Crucible and maybe a little AP on the side. Sona's not meant to do a lot of damage out of lane that's why her Q buffs everyone and her passive has 3 different uses.

Pika310Jan 26, 201510 votes

Her abilities are going to look pretty weak now

Her abilities do look weak now, that much is true, but not for the intentionally misinformative propaganda you've stated.

Her abilities look weak because I played Sona before the July 30th nerfs, so I had a deep understanding of her potential then and her lack of now. That's to be expected after 21 direct nerfs and 9 indirect. She's been nerfed 30 times thus far and frankly I won't be surprised if they continue.

TsundayJan 26, 20152 votes

intentionally misinformative propaganda

just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm intentionally misinforming people

That's to be expected after 21 direct nerfs and 9 indirect.

Some people are so whiny about all of these Sona balance changes.

Her base rework wasn't a nerf. Which is where everyone is getting these 21 direct nerfs from I'd assume. If you're including 2 or 3 changes to 1 ability in 1 patch as 2 or 3 nerfs then you are misinforming people because in cases where an ability has received 2 or more 'nerfs' in the same patch it also had a 'buff' in some other aspect.

Her abilities look weak because I played Sona before the July 30th nerfs

You mean her abilities look weak because they reworked her so you tried to build her as if she was the old Sona and then got upset when she was 'weaker'? It's like crying about New Soraka because you build New Soraka the way you did old Soraka and wonder why you do less damage or wonder why your tank stats aren't making you tank well anymore. It's pretty shitty when I can win midlane as Sona against an Ahri even though my Sona farm is like 30-40 at 10 minutes. It's pretty shitty that as an 'overly nerfed champion' I can still half hit people with a Q + AA in lane. In fact it sucks that I smack them with my Q and then my Powerchord has that Q aura buff on it and hits at about the same time as my Q so the ADC can't retaliate against my 'poke' It's stupid that I can 1v1 a burst mage as Sona and win if I play her as a mage.

Actually you're right, these Sona nerfs suck. When I have an ADC who decides to not use my Q enhanced AA, or backs off after my W powerchord, or doesn't follow up on my ult, man I don't do anything. It sucks that I'm a jack of all trades so that a lot of supports outclass one of my abilities. It sucks that Soraka outheals me when I have more CC and damage than her, it sucks that Leona out CCs me when I have more damage and sustain than her, it sucks that Janna has more mobility control than me when she does no damage so I don't have to spam my heals making her a support that not only does less damage than me but also a support that is more mana hungry than me. It sucks that Nami is pretty much the only support that really outclasses Sona even though Nami has less poke than Sona.

You know what really sucks? First picking Sona and then getting hard countered? Oh wait nevermind Sona isn't Soraka nobody is going to toss a bunch of grevious wounds and hard engage supports your way to make you useless all game. She's also not as sucky as first picking Braum who might get stuck with a team of champions who don't AA well enough to stack his stun. Sona works well in pretty much every lane and she works well in pretty much every team comp. She might not be the best choice for a certain team comp but she still does just fine no matter when/where you pick her.

I'm super sorry about how bad your champion is. She sucks so bad now that Full AP Sona can't kill people in less than .25 seconds with a instant Q + AA.

She's been nerfed 30 times thus far and frankly

I still enjoy playing Sona and I still think she's useful.

frankly I won't be surprised if

People like you keep yelling about how underpowered Sona is so that the general public starts treating her like Urgot. I'm super excited to see people cry about how much of a troll a support Sona is for picking Sona when they still think someone like Nidalee support is acceptable because for some reason the forums are giving everybody the idea that playing Sona is an automatic loss.

Emmy Cha0sJan 26, 20157 votes

I'm sorry you got placed in bronze 5, but to be fair that's where you ended last season anyways.

Zair UmbrasJan 27, 20152 votes

I'm sorry you're still level 10 and didn't exist last season.

ZephyrDrakeJan 27, 20153 votes

{quoted}

just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm intentionally misinforming people

Some people are so whiny about all of these Sona balance changes.

Her base rework wasn't a nerf. Which is where everyone is getting these 21 direct nerfs from I'd assume. If you're including 2 or 3 changes to 1 ability in 1 patch as 2 or 3 nerfs then you are misinforming people because in cases where an ability has received 2 or more 'nerfs' in the same patch it also had a 'buff' in some other aspect.

You mean her abilities look weak because they reworked her so you tried to build her as if she was the old Sona and then got upset when she was 'weaker'? It's like crying about New Soraka because you build New Soraka the way you did old Soraka and wonder why you do less damage or wonder why your tank stats aren't making you tank well anymore. It's pretty shitty when I can win midlane as Sona against an Ahri even though my Sona farm is like 30-40 at 10 minutes. It's pretty shitty that as an 'overly nerfed champion' I can still half hit people with a Q + AA in lane. In fact it sucks that I smack them with my Q and then my Powerchord has that Q aura buff on it and hits at about the same time as my Q so the ADC can't retaliate against my 'poke' It's stupid that I can 1v1 a burst mage as Sona and win if I play her as a mage.

Actually you're right, these Sona nerfs suck. When I have an ADC who decides to not use my Q enhanced AA, or backs off after my W powerchord, or doesn't follow up on my ult, man I don't do anything. It sucks that I'm a jack of all trades so that a lot of supports outclass one of my abilities. It sucks that Soraka outheals me when I have more CC and damage than her, it sucks that Leona out CCs me when I have more damage and sustain than her, it sucks that Janna has more mobility control than me when she does no damage so I don't have to spam my heals making her a support that not only does less damage than me but also a support that is more mana hungry than me. It sucks that Nami is pretty much the only support that really outclasses Sona even though Nami has less poke than Sona.

You know what really sucks? First picking Sona and then getting hard countered? Oh wait nevermind Sona isn't Soraka nobody is going to toss a bunch of grevious wounds and hard engage supports your way to make you useless all game. She's also not as sucky as first picking Braum who might get stuck with a team of champions who don't AA well enough to stack his stun. Sona works well in pretty much every lane and she works well in pretty much every team comp. She might not be the best choice for a certain team comp but she still does just fine no matter when/where you pick her.

I'm super sorry about how bad your champion is. She sucks so bad now that Full AP Sona can't kill people in less than .25 seconds with a instant Q + AA.

I still enjoy playing Sona and I still think she's useful.

People like you keep yelling about how underpowered Sona is so that the general public starts treating her like Urgot. I'm super excited to see people cry about how much of a troll a support Sona is for picking Sona when they still think someone like Nidalee support is acceptable because for some reason the forums are giving everybody the idea that playing Sona is an automatic loss.

sorry but what? if you are beating an ahri in lane even though you have that abysmal cs then i would be more worried about how bad the ahri was than you "being good at sona". Sona does poorly in a solo lane since you just need to shove the wave to her turret constantly and then proceed to poke her down while he tries to uselessly cs under the turret and fail. Not sure against what type of players you have been paired up with that you can get away by playing solo lane Sona but i wouldn't want to be in their team since even beginner bots would do better than them.

Sona as it is right now has quite a few issues, her bases are stupidly low, her bases are stupidly low and if you need to be anything but a walking ult you need to built some amount of AP but at the same time you need to build some amount of resistances otherwise you will just blow up the instant anyone even notices you. Her shield duration is too short for it to be of any use outside of big teamfights with massive AoE all over the place since you know you will block some damage. Her E is pretty bad at actually buffing her team, most of the time you will end up a lot farther ahead from your team than intended and quite sometimes you will need to stop just to let your team catch up to you. Then there's Q which pretty much acts as the go to "let's nerf this instead of buffing the other skills so they are actually good" skill

Another issue Sona has is that for some reason every time Riot deems her early game is too strong they hurt her mid to late game as well so now you have a Sona that not only has a weaker laning phase but also a weaker mid and late game just because "herp derp" nerfs instead of actually well throughout ones.

I main Sona and i'm not afraid to pick her against any comp, she is useful and unless they completely destroy her skills she will always be but Riot for some reason want her to do little to no damage at all when that is one of her main defining aspects, she is the support champion that does more damage than your average support

RatbertJan 27, 20157 votes

"nami has less poke than sona" Stop right there. Unless you're retarded enough to get hit by her passive, nami wins every trade. Even if you do, just e yourself to win. Nami has much safer poke via q (although this isn't a good idea, playing sona isn't either), w and her own passive. Coupled with her poke and heal being in one skill, nami doesn't need to burn a third of her mana every trade.

Rinky DinkyJan 27, 20152 votes

Good news. Lichebane's price has been reduced by 100 gold!

I N D I R E C T B U F F S B O Y Z

Pika310Jan 27, 20152 votes

No, Aether Whisp's price is reduced by 100. Lich Bane is still the same.

A Fiery RundasJan 28, 20151 votes

This person gets it

ErockandrollJan 27, 20151 votes

I have no answer for this. Supports can't even really buy any substantial AP, particularly in the LCS. Yet in Bronze, you end up with supports that have APC level gold.

she just hit two targets for maybe 200 or 300 damage, but those two were tanks and neither of them gave a crap. lol.

You're forgetting her Full combo. It's her Q active, Plus the Q on hit, Plus her Power chord. Prior to the Nerf, This had 100% AP Scaling.

{quoted}

Frozen heart was one of the big items they pointed out for her. They said she needs CDR/Mana but she also shouldn't be building straight AP anymore because they made her more vulnerable. I feel like the reason why they keep nerfing her AP ratios is because when they reworked her they balanced her around building a little more bruiser than she was, they didn't plan for her to go full AP because going full AP made her squishy and gave her little sustainability. Honestly even after the last patch I, as well as people I was playing with were doing just fine playing full AP Sona mid. I went 3/0 against an Ahri in lane and a few games after an enemy Sona mid ended lane 6/1.

Her abilities are going to look pretty weak now because to you when she Ws you get a small shield, or when she Qs you get a small boost of damage, when a Sona is good and manages to time stuff and hit most of her teammates with her abilities you have to look at Sona clicking W + E as being a Karma Mantra E on like 1/4th the CD with an added heal.

Sona does decent damage in lane early game, and then Sona falls off in 2v2s around the end of lane (unless she gets ahead) imo, and she falls off in situations where she's doing smaller skirmishes, but I feel as though Sona (if built right with sustainability to position auras as needed) has great teamfight potentials even with low scalings because she's continuously buffing her whole team in a way no other support can. Other supports can give 1 or 2 teammates a buff at a time, Sona can have a team of 5 people with up to 3 different buffs.

I don't think she's forced to build AP, in fact I find these nerfs are to discourage her from doing so. I think she does well with standard support items such as Locket and Crucible and maybe a little AP on the side. Sona's not meant to do a lot of damage out of lane that's why her Q buffs everyone and her passive has 3 different uses.

For her Tankyness, I would Not Discount her W. Both Her Heal and Her Shield, have AP values.

As for her more Bruiser like Build. I suspect the MS nerfs are Harder on her than the Damage nerfs. I remember stacking Mobi boots and Censer, combined with my E basically allowed me to Kite the enemy to no end. I would Probably try to continue doing so, and Until I need to, I'll probably build her as if I was meant to kite. Also I dislike Crucible. It's overkill on the Mana regen (maybe not so much anymore) with not enough CDR. I prefer to stack Morello's with Censer, giving me plenty of Mana, CDR, AP, MS, and Utility, and I can take Mobi boots instead of Lucidity boots.

Fashion MageJan 27, 20151 votes

I've never thought that AP supports should be able to build tanky or no AP and still be fine with that. There's a reason mages and marksmen don't build tanky, and it's because they need stats to dish out their damage. I enjoy that this now somewhat applies to supports, as in, they need ability power in order to for their supportive abilities to be particularly powerful. So ultimately, in a sense, I'm quite glad that AP Sona is effective and tank Sona isn't, because I think it's pretty damn stupid to have an ability-based support be effective without stats that increase her ability strength.

Rinky DinkyJan 27, 20155 votes

They are now claiming that AP sona is toxic.

Fashion MageJan 27, 20154 votes

"They" as in Riot? I don't really see what's toxic about her personally. If you ask me, AP Sona is the least "toxic" that she's ever been, because the counterplay inherent to squishy targets is that they're easy to take down.