Is Bard getting a bit too Strong?

CarameI Frappe··1 votes·1,695 views

Note: This isn't a hate thread on Bard. I think he's pretty unique, fun to play as, and certainly useful.

But my concern lies in his kit becoming a bit too strong, for my personal taste. I can't tell if it's due to the damage, or how tanky he can get now which may even rival Leona.

Or maybe it's the new items like item 3092 which not only increases ability power by 50, along with multiple benefits but the sword also summons two ghosts to slow down anyone nearby. Since Bard can explore the map, this is probably what makes him far scarier than most supports in my opinion because he has become the 2nd ganker of the group apart from your good old fashioned jungler.

He isn't OP, so please don't think i'm calling him that. I remember before the new masteries, the items being changed, and bard getting buffs- he was very squishy and merely a buddy that's good for stuns and locking people down with ult. Now? He's a somewhat tanky mage that can catch up to you with portal, deal good damage and ensure you're good as dead for the enemy team.

Like how people fear Zed will become more powerful with the upcoming assassin item, I think we're reaching the point certain champions are becoming more powerful than Riot intended thanks to the new masteries + altered items. What are your thoughts on this?

21 Comments

Death by Glamour2 votes

He is getting stronger, the buff creep is begining to take its toll

Itadaki Seieki1 votes

Bard is strong, but he isn't to the point of nerfing him into the ground.

Death by Glamour1 votes

Never said it was.

Just saying that the buffing of his ratios is starting to show

Itadaki Seieki2 votes

Early game it shows immensely, however as the game grinds out the less damage it does because unless you build AP items, the damage will stay consistent and even weaker due to the MR people tend to get.

Death by Glamour2 votes

Like every other traditional support then haha

Itadaki Seieki2 votes

Not exactly hah.

Sona's damage is rather flucutating because it just doesn't come from her Q, it's also her passive so she'll always do 20% more AP than she has after Spellthief's, especially since MOST builds that people do is LB/Luden's Rabadon's Athenes etc.

Still considered a traditional support, because her kit is flawed. Soraka's damage is inconsistant because 90% of her abilities are able to be dodged.

MEANWHILE, Bard's Q has the weirdest hitbox known to me and it can hit people even if they aren't near it etc.

Death by Glamour1 votes

Come of it.

Sonas damage after laning is bad, she becomes an ult bot. Her base stats are amoung the worst thats why she goes ap heavy even tho her scalings are no better.

Raka janna have good ap ratios but rarely invest in much ap simply because they can perform their role with less that 100 ap.

Zyra brand morg and annie will out damage sona by a mile with the same ap late game. Hell brand and zyra will out damage most midlaners woth 300 ap.

Itadaki Seieki2 votes

I NEVER.

Don't you ever say Brand support in the same reply.

I hate whoever came up with it because his kit was designed to be a burst mage. ;; I just want my support lane back to the days when AP Middles with stuns didn't have to come bottom lane and do their high damage abilities. ;;

Death by Glamour1 votes

/agreed

The Bearded Bard2 votes

His tankiness does not rival Leona at all. Leona gets MR and Armor built into her kit, Bard does not. The only tankiness Bard gets comes from his items, which everyone else can get.

CarameI Frappe1 votes

True, and maybe Leona wasn't the best example... but he can definitely handle a tanky support now.

I've been facing more Bards now, and they're able to withstand most of my ADC's hits (unless my ADC is fed, or has items to peel Bard down) but yeah he's handling being on the front lines a lot better and it's starting to show.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Because he builds full tank. I can do the same thing with Veigar if my build looks something like item 3092 item 3143 item 3111 item 3190 item 2045 item 3025

Itadaki Seieki1 votes

A great build for Bard, not bashing yours, it's great.

item 3092 item 3009 item 2049 item 3110 item 3065 item 3742

45% CDR is so good on him and you almost never die unless they burn you down too quick.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Whoops forgot the sight stone. I like your build as well, but typically I go for the more support items like locket for the team shields, randuins and frozen fist for the teamwide slows.

Itadaki Seieki2 votes

Biggest issue with Bard is that his kit works with any ADC.

Sit back and farm? Oh max Q, place W's on the floor for the ADC while you roam.

Aggression? Max Q.

Many supports are either " Play if you're passive " or " Play if you're an aggro support " but Bard can fill both roles. The reason he " seems " strong pretty much comes from his game picking ultimate. Not to mention his Q + Thunderlord's combo is extremely powerful early on.

In the hands of a good Bard you can easily curbstomp a lot of lanes because the sheer CC he brings with Q slow, Q stun if aimed right and ultimate. Not to mention ganks are a lot easier because you can go through the wall avoiding vision all together. Bad Bards tend to max their W first because the heal sounds good, but in reality is rather weak until rank 3-4 unless it's charged on the ground. The reason Thunderlord's is so good on him is because it doesn't take a lot to proc with him as he only needs two autos, one with a meep and one without. I expect the same keystone to stick with him for the sheer fact that it does what it's good at doing.

As for the items? Yeah people tend to be a bit stingy with him as they go Zeke's Harbringer etc. I find that just going Spellthief's is good damage, and then going full tank ( Frozen Heart, Spirit Visage and the last item, I prefer anyways, DMP ) tends to be a great build that keeps him alive to keep Q's chunking. Especially with the 45% CDR that you get via Masteries.

CarameI Frappe1 votes

I agree with everything you've said ... but to be fair Thunderlord is an overall OP mastery lol.

Go into a game, any game and count how many people on both teams is going with Thunderlord. Last game I played, merely 6-8 people had that and the game before that was all Thunderlord. Riot overdid it, but apart from that petty rant I just made- very good analysis. I again agree with you entirely that Bard is too flexible for any ADC.

Reminds me of LeeSin, except his case is a whole lot worse and nobody will deny that. (Just go to the front page of the forum and there will be at least a few threads explaining why Lee Sin is too powerful).

Itadaki Seieki1 votes

Thank you, I take Bard rather seriously, well. As serious a Silver 2 can be that is. Majority of the time people think he's shit because they've only seen Bards who make mistakes, or they don't understand his kit very well. On the other hand, people assume he's OP because 'ultimate is OP' as all Hell because it apparently an AoE stun is OP ( Sejuani Meanwhile isn't given credit for HER AoE ultimate. ;_;)? I guess. I hope in due time I can show people that Bard is great when you know who he is, but to respect his damage as well.

Next patch other Keystones are buffed to compete with Thunderlords, so expect that 6-8 to be different.

All in all, it's just the perfect Keystone for Bard due to his kit being about poke which Thunderlord's does well early game.

CarameI Frappe1 votes

Despite all the great feedback, my OP has -6 dislikes ... well okay then. I don't understand why the community does this when i'm not even bashing the champion himself.

Itadaki Seieki1 votes

\o/ I dunno.

shyv1 votes

i havent had any problems laning against him but maybe those people were just bad at him? like every bard i see gets dangerously low after getting hit by one qe combo as leo hes not tanky at all lol

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Right now he is very strong in the right hands, but there are STILL ways to work around this thing. Though good Bards can make people cry, you can STILL be skilled enough to avoid his tricks.

Been like that since release, though because of FQC and Thunderlord's (which makes his early presence stronger) he is getting stronger. But still not to the point where nerfs are necessary.

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