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So, Sion's Innate

Ironclad Dragon··55 votes·4,486 views

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141001175051/leagueoflegends/images/b/bb/Death_Surge.png It's a nice thought and well meant. Tearing your killer asunder? Sounds awesome. I'd love it if it wasn't so ineffective.

Yeah, Sion already as a strong kit and you're shouldn't be rewarded for dying. But you've played Sion, you know how it feels when you go berserk only for the enemy team to just walk away. Death Surge feels absolutely necessary to activate, otherwise you're slow as hell, but I can't say that I'm moving that fast at all. And it's easily countered with simple CC. Let me tell you, I can count on one hand how many times I've killed someone with Sion's innate and it felt good, and still have fingers left over. Even if I scratch an enemy who's promptly slaughtered, I don't feel that helpful. Most of time, you're only allowed one punch or a few more CS. It takes a while for your damage while berserking to be significant, and time isn't something you have. Your health decays very quickly.

This ain't a "please buff my main" thread. I pity any thematic ability that doesn't deliver its fantasy, and Glory in Death is one of them.

73 Comments

Critmaster Garen68 votes

"COWAAAAAAARDS!"

as he ults to run away from a fight. gets me every time.

redniwediS21 votes

Noxian Retreat is just an OP move.

Critmaster Garen31 votes

{quoted}

Noxian Retreat is just an OP move.

hes not retreating, hes "advancing into a different direction".

SpecterVonBaren20 votes

No he's "Advancing to future victories".

Mistress Madoka2 votes

Found the Sarge

T RexHasTinyArms3 votes

Just a very wide circle to flank the enemies and attack their weak spots.

Borbland1 votes

He's going to circle around to world once to get in their back

Ironclad Dragon26 votes

It's not cowardice. He's taking the scenic route around the world to punch you in the face.

Jbels6 votes

{quoted}

It's not cowardice. He's taking the scenic route around the world to punch you in the face.

On another note, Sgt. Hammer's ult, anyone?

Anidan3 votes

He's gonna pull a Flash vs. Lex Luthor deal.

I can dig it.

Knight SoIaire 13 votes

or "NOTHING CAN STOP ME" as he bashes into a nearby turrret or a wall and just stopps for a while to contemplate existence

Norscout18 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RHbYnH6A,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-03T19:17:17.410+0000)

"COWAAAAAAARDS!"

as he ults to run away from a fight. gets me every time.

Ashe "I only need one shot" has to hit at least twice to crit

Ser Garland3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RHbYnH6A,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-03T19:17:17.410+0000)

"COWAAAAAAARDS!"

as he ults to run away from a fight. gets me every time.

Well they did gank him

Jbels5 votes

Yeah, hate to say it but Sion pretty much got shafted. He came out with the rework and he was amazing. Then he just got nerf after nerf. It's bad enough he's already super squishy starting out. I wouldn't have minded the health stacking passive just being gone. It takes forever to be noticeable that you've been stacking alot, and the tradeoff for it just hurts his laning phase even more now that his damage has been reduced hugely. ffs, 3 seconds to reactive the shield? Good luck getting it off at all. As to his passive though, it has to be bad. The rest of his kit was just too good for his passive to be glorious as well

Only Play Darius12 votes

That shield nerf was overkill. Now he can't survive laning phase since he has lowest base health in the game and actually depended on the shield pop to trade.

Jbels4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RHbYnH6A,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-03T19:20:43.113+0000)

That shield nerf was overkill. Now he can't survive laning phase since he has lowest base health in the game and actually depended on the shield pop to trade.

And Jungle fans will be happy to know that it is now impossible to sustain his jungle clears early on because the shield dies WAY before you even get close to popping it for damage. Sooo, laning is dead, jungling is dead. Where does he go? Too squishy to support, and what ADC wants a tank that shoots their farm across the map and inadvertantly pushes the lane to do so?

junglerboy162 votes

His early clear was already iffy before the nerf, and afterwards (along with the undocumented nerf that reduced his Q damage to minions to 60% instead of the 80% it says in tooltip), his sustain is miserable, his clear speed is gone, and he takes so long to ramp up that he can't be relevant when he hits his level 6 ganking powerspike anymore.

Nilok1 votes

That Q change is a problem... Post that in the bug report form.

junglerboy161 votes

It's not a problem, confirmed by Riotscruffy to be an intentional change. I alerted him then and there that it was never documented and it still hasen't been almost a month after bringing it up.

Nilok2 votes

Report it as a bug that the tool tip doesn't match the affect.

At the very least when it finally gets updated, people will take note.

Verxint1 votes

I still don't understand how they can change a champions numbers and miss the tooltip. The tooltip should be pulling the numbers directly from the data.

Nilok1 votes

Usually in game numbers look insane, or have random floating point values to help hide them. This forces the developers to either write more code to make it readable, or simply write a tool tip.

Riot chose to go with the latter.

Crowe Stalker1 votes

I honestly don't have a problem with Sion Jungle. Hell, there are times I hit 6 by the time my enemy hit 5. It's all about managing your CC against the mobs, who you auto, and starting the camp with a Full Q rather than E, Auto, or a Shield. Properly managed, Sion Jungle is actually a very strong farmer and if your Ultimate hits and your laner is in range for a follow-up, it's a guaranteed kill.

Still, there's a reason he's not a Popular Jungler.

junglerboy162 votes

Oh, I know his pros and cons, I gained Sion jungle for about 6 months after his relaunch. The only issue is that now he is just not worth the extra effort to make work. It can work, and it still is not terrible, but it just isn't anywhere near as fun as it used to be.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

I have a friend who uses jungle Sion a lot. His ganks are absolute garbage, even with ult. Especially when he misses ult.

Dar Raksada3 votes

{quoted}

I have a friend who uses jungle Sion a lot. His ganks are absolute garbage, even with ult. Especially when he misses ult.

I main it in ranked, it's fine.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

The thing is, to actually get a kill on a gank, he has to hit his ult, hit his Q, and get a lot of backup from his laner. AD Tanks are not good at ganking. However, they make up for it late game in tankyness. The thing is, there are a lot of AP Tanks who can build AP for ganking and HP/MR/Armor for tankyness at the same time, making Sion's lack of gank potential a huge deficit.

Dar Raksada1 votes

{quoted}

The thing is, to actually get a kill on a gank, he has to hit his ult, hit his Q, and get a lot of backup from his laner. AD Tanks are not good at ganking. However, they make up for it late game in tankyness. The thing is, there are a lot of AP Tanks who can build AP for ganking and HP/MR/Armor for tankyness at the same time, making Sion's lack of gank potential a huge deficit.

I usually do fine just hitting e and if possible a q, your w and your aa's are nothing to sneeze at either, especially early game.

Vellich0r5 votes

His early clear is exceptional actually. He is still one of the faster clearers in the game, and he can full clear at full health several times before backing. The secret is to start the shield while charging your Q. The camp is cced long enough to activate the shield pop.

KarKzz1 votes

Or do it nautilus-like, use your shield a few second before engaging to get it back faster. But Q + shield works to .

Vellich0r1 votes

in your first camp you do it like that, but after that the clear is actually faster if you shield Q E, shield before you go to camp, pop, Q also works.

Matezoide5 votes

His Passive is great at forcing the enemy to scatter or focusing the dead Tank.

Delioth1 votes

This.

You might not kill one, but if your team doesn't get anything from it then you're not doing it right. Your team should be there- when they waste their CC on Sion and disperse from him, your team kills them. If they ignore you, you do %max health damage on each hit and kill 3 of them.

7ha7guy7774 votes

You don't kills enemies with his passive, you kill the nexus

LeanMeanNicotine3 votes

Bring the Sion before the rework back pls.

aaronautumn24 votes

ew no

junglerboy163 votes

I would say they should slow down the health drain increase per second, because right now, even if built full tank the exponential health decay means it's capped solidly at about 7ish seconds (that's a rough number, don't quote me on it).

Instead of like live where it costs 1+1xlvl plus 0.7+0.7xlvl health every .25 seconds. Now of course, his own self healing and enemies damaging him would extend or delay that window a little, and the exponential loss is incredibly important for keeping him from becoming literally immortal, but the rate of decay needs to be decreased. even something seemingly insignificant like changing the health loss per tic increase down to only 0.6+0.6xlvl would help him out a lot.

He should also be immune to slows while undead. the whole point of being able to CC the beast is to allow him to draw out a last few hard CCs from the enemy team, not just their 20% slow or a random Rylai's proc. if they fixed that, then it would make him feel much better to play, and teams would still be able to peel him, just not so nonchalantly as they do now.

shalexade3 votes

Did you know, Righteous Glory can be activated during his passive- which makes sticking to ones target a much more achievable feat- particularly in the chaos of team fights.

BrickRocket3 votes

It's good in teamfights. If Sion dies right in the middle of everyone, the enemy either needs to retreat, kill Sion a second time, or ignore him and have him tear people apart. Any CC they throw at a dead Sion is CC that isnt getting thrown at your squishies.

If he dies alone from a gank, getting away from him should be fairly easy.

Celeste Benal2 votes

He'd be more impressive if he just exploded in a huge spray of blood. Oh wait. Kogmaw already does that. RIP.

Spizzle90002 votes

It's called a passive, not an innate.

Anidan11 votes

"They're called heroes, not champions"

We know what he meant, don't worry about it.

Erockandroll2 votes

Am I the only one here who doesn't have any problems with Sion being "Squishy?"

Usually I only have Trouble against the AP matchup. Otherwise, I'm able to rush Frozen heart, and get everything I need. And no, I don't have problems with wave clear. Not after a few levels anyway. The most trouble I have is holding on in lane until A) my initial TP comes of Cooldown or B) I reach level 6, gaining access to my ult. (usually happens around the same time) And that is fairly easy to do when you start with a flask.

As for his passive, I feel like it's meant for more zoning than securing kills. You can Build him so that his passive does have killing power, But I would only do that if I plan to die Allot. (Which means I'm playing ARAM) But his Death passive should only feel as good as Karthus' death passive. Meaning only if you die in the right spot under the right conditions. But even in less favorable conditions, you should be able to do something with his passive. If I die in lane with no hope to finish off my opponent, I just take as much minion farm as I can. Preventing the wave from pushing against me before I can return to lane.

sp4412 votes

Yeah, Death Surge REALLY needs a buff. It really pisses me off when everybody runs away laughing from it because any slow whatsoever is enough to neuter whatever threat he might pose.

Erockandroll2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Death Surge REALLY needs a buff. It really pisses me off when everybody runs away laughing from it because any slow whatsoever is enough to neuter whatever threat he might pose.

Again, I don't think his passive should be that big of his power budget.

And I don't personally build for his passive. But if you want to increase his passive potential while still being fairly tanky, Get a Frozen Mallet. And watch them get slowed to oblivion if they so much as get hit once.

LoL Ergo Urgot2 votes

It is kinda funny to think of Sion as a pathological liar, calling others cowards as he runs away, or "nothing can stop me" as he runs into teemo and is stopped.

He was that soldier who was always telling lies about his expeditions.

DirkTarTar2 votes

Sion is probably my #1 favorite top laner and possibly jungler right now... Landing those max range ults on the level 6 gank is probably the most satisfying feeling ever

The Loveless2 votes

I feel like a dumbass when I play Sion. He's just so sluggish and tends to miss every thing except his w-bomb.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

I say make his passive not take time to activate. Obviously he can still be CC'd, but he can be CC'd while alive too, its just a part of the game(unless your Olaf Alistar). The problem is, he has to wait like, a second just to go berserk after dying. If it was instant it would be so much better. Would actually allow you to continue fighting rather than start CS'ing or hitting a tower twice or dancing with the last few seconds of your life.

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