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Reason Why I HATE The Leash Mechanic In League of Legends

Best Ekko NA··5 votes·2,138 views

I really don't know how to format this thread as I don't want to come off as trolling, but come on Riot.. It's NOT FAIR for anyone on the team to be required to leash a Jungler. Maybe where the Jungler starts is considered part of their strategy, but no where did I see anything about laners signing up to be apart of it. This is a legit concern whether people want to seriously consider it or not. As a Top Lane & Jungle main, I know first hand both sides of what it's like to be required to leash my Jungler in various situations, but also what it's like to NOT HAVE A LEASH AT ALL.

Not having a leash SUCKS, I know it does. You don't get through your Jungle as fast, if you get counter ganked you waste a lot of time because you have to recall.. on certain champions you have to recall anyways (in the old Jungle at least) because they can't fully clear. The thing is, that's not fair at all because a laner shouldn't HAVE TO leash for ANY Jungler whatsoever.

Creeps do a lot of damage early. When the enemy gets a push on you (basically when they didn't have to leash THEIR Jungle), even if you level up at the same time, and they don't get the "cheese" off on you, they have a bigger wave from shoving you in and you literally can't fight them most of the time without eating 8+ creeps in the process. This isn't only a problem in Top lane, it also goes for Bot lane. Getting punished for leashing your Jungle isn't fair in any way at all. Go ahead, down vote and say it doesn't happen but if you honestly think that you're full of it. The wave cheese isn't the only problem either.

In match-ups where you lack wave clear and / or can never truly fight the enemy, having to leash your Jungler (when they don't have to) screws you. All you Jungle players out there should REALLY CONSIDER THIS before you decide where you are going to start. How worth is that leash when your Top laner is going to die several times or be hard zoned all of laning phase? Is that really worth a couple hits on your Toad? No, it's not. Not even in the slightest. If you can confirm the other Jungle is starting Top side, it's probably not a big deal, but if he's not and your laner is countered.. congrats, you just single handedly lost him any advantage he might have been able to savage early in his / her lane. Later when you're mad about how poorly your Top lane is doing, remember you had a big part in that when you made the decision to force him to leash for you.

Of all the things in this game, Junglers needing a leash is probably the #1 biggest thing I HATE in all of League of Legends. There's no excuse for a Jungler not being able to clear his own Jungle (without being set behind). If someone wants to be nice and leash, then that's okay... but there's NEVER any reason that someone should be FORCED into having to leash for his Jungler (for the sake of keeping his Jungle teammate in the game).

That's terrible design at the core of the game. If Junglers can't succeed without a leash, SOMETHING SOMEWHERE needs changed or fixed because it's just not acceptable at all for a Jungler to fail without assistance or a laner to suffer for assisting his Jungler.

36 Comments

Automated Riven2 votes

{quoted}

. How worth is that leash when your Top laner is going to die several times or be hard zoned all of laning phase? Is that really worth a couple hits on your Toad? No, it's not. Not even in the slightest. If you can confirm the other Jungle is starting Top side, it's probably not a big deal, but if he's not and your laner is countered.. congrats, you just single handedly lost him any advantage he might have been able to savage early in his / her lane

If you are dying several times in lane just because you didnt get at most 1 minion worth of EXP or you got early shoved on you seriously need to work on your laning skills. If the enemy gets the early shove dont fight him and last hit under tower. Even if you fall behind a full 6 cs because of it that isnt anything that cant be recouped later. You can always ask the jungle to come gank for you and help you out also. more importantly, there isn't a better way that I know except maybe tower diving stupidly to lose lane by yourself then solo engaging into an enemy early level when he has an 8 creep advantage. Just don't do it. seriously ... don't do it. when you think about it, don't. yeah one trade went by the wayside but there are many many more to take advantage of.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REgb3eGF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-28T00:16:39.787+0000)

. How worth is that leash when your Top laner is going to die several times or be hard zoned all of laning phase? Is that really worth a couple hits on your Toad? No, it's not. Not even in the slightest. If you can confirm the other Jungle is starting Top side, it's probably not a big deal, but if he's not and your laner is countered.. congrats, you just single handedly lost him any advantage he might have been able to savage early in his / her lane

If you are dying several times in lane just because you didnt get at most 1 minion worth of EXP or you got early shoved on you seriously need to work on your laning skills. If the enemy gets the early shove dont fight him and last hit under tower. Even if you fall behind a full 6 cs because of it that isnt anything that cant be recouped later. You can always ask the jungle to come gank for you and help you out also. more importantly, there isn't a better way that I know except maybe tower diving stupidly to lose lane by yourself then solo engaging into an enemy early level when he has an 8 creep advantage. Just don't do it. seriously ... don't do it. when you think about it, don't. yeah one trade went by the wayside but there are many many more to take advantage of.

Bro, you are talking like your enemy laner isn't as good as you are. Sometimes it doesn't matter how good you are, an advantage is an advantage and any player worth their lick of salt is going to use that shit against you. Let me tell you, if I'm Darius right now.. Level 2 is the difference between proc'ing my Courage of the Colossus or dying to the enemy laner. Early on fights ARE that close and regardless of how "good" you think you are, that means literally nothing when the enemy is the same skill as you are.

Can't just pretend everyone is trash, because no.. they aren't.

Automated Riven1 votes

it has nothing to do with player skill. yes the level 2 advantage is huge. and so is the level 3 and then again so is the level six. but if you play smart and respect the advantage that they have then it wont hurt you aside from you missing a few cs. and if he is pushing in super hard then you are gonna be able to get most of that cs back under tower anyway because your minions wont be able to kill him ... if he doesnt push super hard then ask your jungle to do a drive by and freeze the lane. I could make the same bullshit complaint about anything. Invades any kind of cheese strat. pathing, minion block. its all the same. something happened. you lost an advantage and so you play it out after. thats how the game goes.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REgb3eGF,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-11-28T01:04:44.451+0000)

it has nothing to do with player skill. yes the level 2 advantage is huge. and so is the level 3 and then again so is the level six. but if you play smart and respect the advantage that they have then it wont hurt you aside from you missing a few cs. and if he is pushing in super hard then you are gonna be able to get most of that cs back under tower anyway because your minions wont be able to kill him ... if he doesnt push super hard then ask your jungle to do a drive by and freeze the lane. I could make the same bullshit complaint about anything. Invades any kind of cheese strat. pathing, minion block. its all the same. something happened. you lost an advantage and so you play it out after. thats how the game goes.

Except the fact is, this disadvantage shouldn't exist. That's the whole point.

How you handle the situation and the fact that it's there are two different things. Just because you can play passively and deal with it doesn't mean that you should HAVE TO. No, you can't say that about everything. Minion block is a bug (which they likely don't know how to fix), invades are a legit strategy because player(s) are giving up something to commit to it (time in lane, mobs in their own Jungle, time they could have been ganking), jungle pathing is also similar -- giving up one thing for another to find an advantage (skipping red and blue for an EXP advantage at the risk of the enemy taking them).

As a laner, what advantage do YOU gain leashing your Jungler? Nothing. You don't gain anything. In fact, he or she might not ever even gank for you after you leash for him or her. You trade your lane time to gain literally nothing. The Jungler gains everything while you gain nothing. That's not a fair strategy or mechanic. All these other things you are complaining about have REAL trade offs that leashing does not have. So no, you can't say that about anything because it's simply not true. Not even close to true.

Automated Riven1 votes

the fact that you actually believe that darius cant create the exact same situation by hard pushing level 1 is a problem. As riven you can spam q on the melee creeps and do the same thing. hard shoving for level 2 is what multiple champions are able to do if they have AOE abilities. In favorable matchups with riven I always hard shove for level 2 and slow push to gain an advantage. the fact that you are acting as tho the only way this happens is because of leashing is frankly laughable.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REgb3eGF,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-28T01:20:33.554+0000)

the fact that you actually believe that darius cant create the exact same situation by hard pushing level 1 is a problem. As riven you can spam q on the melee creeps and do the same thing. hard shoving for level 2 is what multiple champions are able to do if they have AOE abilities. In favorable matchups with riven I always hard shove for level 2 and slow push to gain an advantage. the fact that you are acting as tho the only way this happens is because of leashing is frankly laughable.

Okay, if both laners are present THAT'S FINE. If you can hard push with the other person there then you deserve that because they are either allowing it, or you are just good and forcing it. If you are pushing because NO ONE IS THERE and you know they're leashing the Jungler, that's unfair. They can't stop you from doing that and there's no counter play for them. That is the difference.

In every post you make, you completely ignore counter play and just assume that things should be like they are because they're "good in your opinion", it's not laughable at all. You post the abuse case of stealing a camp, that's another thing that had ZERO counter play. You leashing your Jungler while the enemy free pushes has NO COUNTER PLAY as well. You have no say or ability to do anything about it without royally fucking over your Jungler.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

why is the other enemy laner able to get to lane faster than you can?

also its not a disadvantage, your jungler should be ahead if your laner is ahead because you helped jungle

Automated Riven1 votes

i believe the point is that if you helped leash as toplane and the enemy botlane helped leash it isnt fair because the exp advantage somehow multiplies the longer the game goes on. I am assuming till the enemy is level 18 and your level 14 the way this guy is arguing. and there is somehow no way to ever come back from such a deficit and we should completely disallow people from helping the jungle so this major gamebreaking abuse of power can be stopped.

Kappa

edit and sidenote I am also noticing that this broken advantage which results in him inevitably dying multiple times in lane doesnt also snowball the bot lane against the enemy team cause hacks.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

its fair regardless. But honestly 90+ % of players have no fucking clue how jungle works or why. In serious games you wouldn't normally see people rush off to lane or just ignore the jungle. You don't have to leash for jungle, but if you do its not because jungle can't do it alone. Jungle is a team resource and not investing in the jungler puts that investment somewhere else.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

no matter how good you are, if you are farming you are pushing. As long as you make it there before any minions die you are not going to be behind in levels AND forced to fight unless something very stupid is happening.

Automated Riven1 votes

Sigh.. Thats what I have been trying to say. but he isnt hearing it.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REgb3eGF,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2016-11-28T01:38:33.324+0000)

Sigh.. Thats what I have been trying to say. but he isnt hearing it.

I completely understand what you said. You think finding ways to cheese the enemy is a form of skill, but reality is the ones you listed aren't a version of skill they are methods of gaining an advantage with no counter play and there's a difference whether you think there is or not.

Automated Riven1 votes

exactly .. what I listed is not skill. its called cheese because its cheese. It works 1 every 20 or 30 games. Same with all ining at level 1 with riven. Once every 20 games you get lucky and blow a flash and get an easy won lane. its cheese. you are trying to argue that TEMPORARILY falling behind in exp is gamebreaking and cant be dealt with. and no matter what it results in you dying multiple times in lane. I am just arguing that is not the case.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REgb3eGF,comment-id=000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-28T01:47:47.532+0000)

exactly .. what I listed is not skill. its called cheese because its cheese. It works 1 every 20 or 30 games. Same with all ining at level 1 with riven. Once every 20 games you get lucky and blow a flash and get an easy won lane. its cheese. you are trying to argue that TEMPORARILY falling behind in exp is gamebreaking and cant be dealt with. and no matter what it results in you dying multiple times in lane. I am just arguing that is not the case.

Lol clearly you've never met a player better than yourself, that's about all I have to say. You've never met a player who understands freezing waves and punishing you. Not sure what rank you are, but you probs somewhere in Bronze or Silver where you can destroy lane every game because people don't know about lane mechanics. Guess I shouldn't be a dick and assume but from everything you say, I really get that vibe. If you ever played against someone who was actually REALLY GOOD you would finally understand just how big it really is to feel someone zoning you off after you leashed your Jungler.

Automated Riven1 votes

Proud silver 2 here altho I dont really play ranked, In normals I get matched against high gold and low plat rather often, but then again I also get matched against bronze people so take what you want. And I have played against people who are better then I am. Got wrecked by a plat 1 renek and still havent figured out how. I canceled an aa in a level 3 fight and he took that early kill it got him and destroyed me with it. So yes I know what its like to be zoned. I have also played against teemos that are hyper agressive and make poking you their pasttime. most of these games are with riven but the fact remains that if the enemy laner starts csing the lane will shove to you. and it will build and it will eventurally crash into your turret. and then the lead will evaporate because you will eaqualize in exp and yes the enemy laner will have a cs most likely but like i said. that can be equalized. it is literally impossible for a laner to zone you off cs and exp while you are under your own tower. and by the time the wave starts pushing out again you will be the same level .. you still have a tempo disadvantage but you should be able to become eaqual in relitive power until the first back assuming he still has the cs advantage.

edit and even in the matchup against the plat 1 I didnt get zoned off cs (aside from the first 2 levels) in spite of the fact I did leash my jungle and he didntuntil my first death where I only lost the fight cause I canceled an aa and I didnt die multiple times in lane. I died twice before my tower went down, once in the level 4 brawl and once when I thought I could take him at low health and he obliterated me. What he did do that showed that he was highly better then I was, was abuse the lead like I have never been able to quite replicate.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

you say it funny, mine is sexier

This isn't dota, the laners can't kill off their own minions and deny you cs. You just have to be in lane before 6 minions are dead

Monsters start spawning around 1:40-1:50

Minions MEET at about 2:00 in midlane which is the first because of the shorter lane. In top and bot lane no minions will die from fighting each other until something like 2:10-2:20

If you can't leash and get back to lane then you suck, do something about it.

But honestly I don't even play junglers that can't clear on their own. Don't need you to tank it just hit it once and leave or something. But if you do more I'm gonna clear faster, if not then I MIGHT go slower than the other jungler which isn't going to mean shit if I'm not playing a speed jungler like nidalee or something.

A Basic Island1 votes

didn't read, but no MATTER HOW WEAK THEY MAKE BLUE AND RED, there will ALWAYS be a leash because competitive play will do it because it's simply better

we'd need blue to insta die to smite or an ability or two before leashing stops becoming the optimal play

It sucks NEEDING the leash, but until the buffs are instakilled i think it's gonna be mandatory

Best Ekko NA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Basic Island,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REgb3eGF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-28T00:11:25.315+0000)

didn't read, but no MATTER HOW WEAK THEY MAKE BLUE AND RED, there will ALWAYS be a leash because competitive play will do it because it's simply better

we'd need blue to insta die to smite or an ability or two before leashing stops becoming the optimal play

It sucks NEEDING the leash, but until the buffs are instakilled i think it's gonna be mandatory

Well, honestly there is a way to prevent leashing.. Just make something like a buff on the first spawn (just first clear) of Jungle mobs where teammates can't attack them without Smite. Problem solved. Now you can nurf them all you want and everyone wins.

Automated Riven1 votes

that completely wrecks any stratagy where you would want to tax a small minion to gain an ex lead in lane. and removes gameplay depth instead of adding to it

Best Ekko NA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REgb3eGF,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-28T01:15:56.893+0000)

that completely wrecks any stratagy where you would want to tax a small minion to gain an ex lead in lane. and removes gameplay depth instead of adding to it

Taxing the small minion is something Riot has tried to remove more than once already. Why do you think they added EXP to Jungle items and decreased the EXP on the mobs themselves? Why do you think they changed potion prices? Camp starts are frowned upon. Riot removed the advantage of starting at a camp. They removed the Krug level up cheese in Bottom lane. Top lane Karma stealing the enemies baby raptors and Riven stealing the small blue sentinel is no different. That's not a healthy mechanic at all and it shouldn't exist. The problem is that someone is always going to find ways to abuse the Jungle. That's something that is very difficult to put a stop to.

Automated Riven1 votes

honestly it sounds like you just want to change to passive leveling thats exactly the same as in aram. Lobbying to remove things which include player skill and add depth to gameplay is dumb. these things allow people to be good at the game and also allow the players to have games where they carry and other games where they dont .. the game is balanced around many things and leashing is one of them. And to respond to another post you had about what toplane gets from leashing. He gets a jungler that isnt under leveled who can potentually swing the game in his favor. I would trade all my team mates being in a better position at a small discomfort for me every day. because what you are complaining about is just that. A small discomfort. If you allow the enemy top laner to take a early level 2 and kill you repeatedly in lane then you are just bad. thats all there is too it.

Marshbouy1 votes

Unless you gave smite a buff pre X time in the game i don't see how you could feasibly implement this without widespread ramifications on the rest of the game. Even then a leash would still be better because faster leash=faster clear=more kill pressure

Best Ekko NA1 votes

{quoted}

Unless you gave smite a buff pre X time in the game i don't see how you could feasibly implement this without widespread ramifications on the rest of the game. Even then a leash would still be better because faster leash=faster clear=more kill pressure

{quoted}

Well, honestly there is a way to prevent leashing.. Just make something like a buff on the first spawn (just first clear) of Jungle mobs where teammates can't attack them without Smite. Problem solved. Now you can nurf them all you want and everyone wins.

There you go.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

A leash doesn't actually make them get to lane too late (3 autos and then leave for top side will get you to the wave the moment the minion waves touch) if it's a small one. Not so sure about bot, but a couple autos and maybe an ability doesn't take too much time.

On the other hand, I don't actually need a leash with Shyv, so whatever.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

{quoted}

A leash doesn't actually make them get to lane too late (3 autos and then leave for top side will get you to the wave the moment the minion waves touch) if it's a small one. Not so sure about bot, but a couple autos and maybe an ability doesn't take too much time.

On the other hand, I don't actually need a leash with Shyv, so whatever.

Not really true tbh, for starters it depends on champion movement speed, and where you are leashing. If you are leashing Red for your Jungler as a Top lane.. you're boned man. A champion like Riven or Ekko can shove you under tower and make your life hell, even more so knowing that there won't be any enemy Jungler there for at least 2-3 minutes because if you don't clear the rest of your Jungle you'll fall behind.

Anytime there's a stacking wave on your side, the enemy will always level up before you will (because he's killed more minions than you). When you are shoved under tower, maybe you didn't lose EXP but that doesn't matter because you didn't GAIN that exp yet either. It's basically the same as having lost it because in some match ups not reaching level 2 or 3 in sync with the enemy spells disaster (which means you either allow yourself get to get zoned or die, at some point you probably will die anyways because they're just gonna keep stacking levels on you).

Darius is probably the best example of this, early on he's insanely powerful against the majority of Top lane champions currently played in the meta. Let's say you are playing Riven or Garen against Darius, you had to leash your Jungler but Darius didn't.. He decides to shove the wave, but not all the way into your tower. Now there's a bunch of creeps on his side, but you aren't under tower to farm them. If you try to retaliate any trade with him you instantly lose, and maybe could even die, so you have to stand off at the back hoping you can maybe get 1 cs here or there. The big problem is, you aren't killing the creeps as fast as he is. When you are level 2 finally, he's already level 3 or most of the way to level 3. Now you can never trade with him. By the time you hit 5, he's already 6.

If your mid laner or Jungler doesn't come gank him, you never have any opportunity to trade him and win. He's farming more than you (assuming he's not worse than you are) and he has more levels and more items than you.

Okay, now let's look at the flip side.. you didn't have to leash your Jungler. You are Riven or Garen and he's Darius.. who has to leash his Jungler. You implement the same tactic as him and slightly shove fast while he's walking back from leashing. You have a number of creeps. You still can't exactly destroy Darius early, however this time the lane is in YOUR FAVOR because if he tries to attack you, he's going to be absorbing the harass of the minions. You can farm freely now without being zoned terribly hard, you level up before he does. Now you have 1 whole ability on him and can zone him instead (even more so as Riven than Garen). The whole tide of the lane has now shifted simply because one player had to leash and the other laner did not.

There's no amount of skill that can stop this. Not every match up goes like this because some champions are just better at the early game than others (Illaoi for instance) but the advantage is still there and can technically turn the tides if used well in any match-up.

It's a laning technique that really shouldn't exist because it's not fair for everyone. It's the same reason they changed the spawn times on the Jungle monsters way back in Season 3 or 4 (from all spawning at the same time). EXP cheese, is not fair for anyone and it's an unintentional result of leashing in a majority of cases.

Automated Riven1 votes

thats not how the lane works. as soon as your wave bounces and it will you will become even in exp. its not like darius is making magical exp pop out of nowhere by by shoving the lane. yes he gets one wave advantage early but the wave will bounce back. right about level 3 or 4 and you should be even levels then. and that would be the time to go for a trade. the example you used from both sides (darius vs riven) any of those trades can go either way (at least so I am told. I still havent lost lane to a darius as riven) and the better player wins. if you play scared just cause he got ahead early ya your gonna lose. but if you watch for the right time you can pick a fight when you are even and still win lane. and it isnt even that hard. I play riven into every champion toplane. even the ones that counter her. and every match lane is winnable if you play it right. its a matter of knowing what to do at what time.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Not really true tbh, for starters it depends on champion movement speed, and where you are leashing. If you are leashing Red for your Jungler as a Top lane.. you're boned man. A champion like Riven or Ekko can shove you under tower and make your life hell, even more so knowing that there won't be any enemy Jungler there for at least 2-3 minutes because if you don't clear the rest of your Jungle you'll fall behind.

Anytime there's a stacking wave on your side, the enemy will always level up before you will (because he's killed more minions than you). When you are shoved under tower, maybe you didn't lose EXP but that doesn't matter because you didn't GAIN that exp yet either. It's basically the same as having lost it because in some match ups not reaching level 2 or 3 in sync with the enemy spells disaster (which means you either allow yourself get to get zoned or die, at some point you probably will die anyways because they're just gonna keep stacking levels on you).

Darius is probably the best example of this, early on he's insanely powerful against the majority of Top lane champions currently played in the meta. Let's say you are playing Riven or Garen against Darius, you had to leash your Jungler but Darius didn't.. He decides to shove the wave, but not all the way into your tower. Now there's a bunch of creeps on his side, but you aren't under tower to farm them. If you try to retaliate any trade with him you instantly lose, and maybe could even die, so you have to stand off at the back hoping you can maybe get 1 cs here or there. The big problem is, you aren't killing the creeps as fast as he is. When you are level 2 finally, he's already level 3 or most of the way to level 3. Now you can never trade with him. By the time you hit 5, he's already 6.

If your mid laner or Jungler doesn't come gank him, you never have any opportunity to trade him and win. He's farming more than you (assuming he's not worse than you are) and he has more levels and more items than you.

Okay, now let's look at the flip side.. you didn't have to leash your Jungler. You are Riven or Garen and he's Darius.. who has to leash his Jungler. You implement the same tactic as him and slightly shove fast while he's walking back from leashing. You have a number of creeps. You still can't exactly destroy Darius early, however this time the lane is in YOUR FAVOR because if he tries to attack you, he's going to be absorbing the harass of the minions. You can farm freely now without being zoned terribly hard, you level up before he does. Now you have 1 whole ability on him and can zone him instead (even more so as Riven than Garen). The whole tide of the lane has now shifted simply because one player had to leash and the other laner did not.

There's no amount of skill that can stop this. Not every match up goes like this because some champions are just better at the early game than others (Illaoi for instance) but the advantage is still there and can technically turn the tides if used well in any match-up.

It's a laning technique that really shouldn't exist because it's not fair for everyone. It's the same reason they changed the spawn times on the Jungle monsters way back in Season 3 or 4 (from all spawning at the same time). EXP cheese, is not fair for anyone and it's an unintentional result of leashing in a majority of cases.

...

Did you not understand? I was playing Fiora, red side. I hit red buff three times and walked to lane. I got there just as the minions hit each other.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

{quoted}

...

Did you not understand? I was playing Fiora, red side. I hit red buff three times and walked to lane. I got there just as the minions hit each other.

OK, did the enemy push and freeze the wave? Because it definitely sounds like you are the one who doesn't understand.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

OK, did the enemy push and freeze the wave? Because it definitely sounds like you are the one who doesn't understand.

No, they hadn't been able to auto the minion wave a single time yet (not everyone walks way up and hits the minions early and duck into brush to lose aggro)

Zelorxon1 votes

Tank supports should tank 2 autos, especially if they have relic, since the regen mastery/shit supports have will heal the damage taken while you walk to lane, also if you have free barriers such as malphite/poppy you have to use them otherwise i'm questioning your brain prowess.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

who said you had to leash? You got tricked lol

Best Ekko NA1 votes

{quoted}

who said you had to leash? You got tricked lol

Trust me, you NEED to leash your Jungler right now.. It's just the best thing to do. Your odds of winning increase that much because he'll stay relevant unless he does a lot of stupid crap and falls behind.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

No, I wont trust you.

Based off what logic are you arguing that someone must absolutely leash?

Zoeeee1 votes

This speaks to deeper issues with the jungle. Only champs with sustain or ape can really clear both buffs without having to go back.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

No, what I want to change are these ABUSE CASES. You clearly don't understand that counter play is an important part of demonstrating skill. Let me pretend you are Karma, you took the small Raptors and came back to lane. What type of counter play do I have to match that? Nothing. There's absolutely nothing. That's not skill taking those mobs, that's abusing something because it's really strong and the enemy can't do anything about it. Skill is setting up your wave while fighting against the enemy, trading with him and winning so that you can level up first. THAT is showing skill. Being handed a completely FREE LEVEL 2 is NOT SKILL.

It's possible to abuse this similarly when the enemy has to leash his Jungler, giving him no way to stop you from having that free level 2. You pushed a wave against no one while he helped his teammate, he didn't have any say in that what so ever. He couldn't fight you, he couldn't push the wave back, he couldn't do shit. That's what you fail to see. Pushing a wave with no one there isn't skill, that's a bullshit mechanic that shouldn't be there.

Automated Riven1 votes

The problem with that is that it isnt even a free level 2. You havent even lost exp. unless you stayed too long on the leash. I have never in my history playing league of legends lost exp leashing because I couldnt help it. if you stay to long then your skill is depriving you of exp. if you dont stay to long then you havent lost exp and the lane is pushing against you which allows you a much safer lane for the early part. if you lose a trade you walk under tower. if you enemy loses a trade badly he has to flash because of the length of the lane. pro's and con's also if your enemy loses a trade he gets zoned from BOTH cs and exp while he recovers while if you lose a trade you only get zoned from cs. the lane pushing against you is good for you, it only means dont fight while he has a stacked wave. its a pressure advantage only but if used properly can work really hard against him. I have had games where I left lane at level six with an enemy laner at level 3 because I won an early trade and froze the lane cause he was pushing. he then proceded to sit at about 10 cs for the next 6 minutes because he never could safely farm until his and midlaner came to stop me from zoning him because I could just 2v1 him and the jungler. Dont pretend this is an unwinable situation because you refuse to learn to play the game better.

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