About Karma (Why I think You're Looking at this Change the WRONG WAY)

Battlecast Sona··3 votes·1,155 views

So, I've been playing Karma since the day she was released. When she was garbage, when she wasn't (I never really thought she was garbage), right after the rework, through all the changes.

People seem to have a fundamental problem with how Karma's kit works, and it's being manifested with a lot of people complaining about E shield losing damage. Let's look at how Karma's laning phase plays out and your options.

Now, people talk about Karma like she's a poke heavy mid laner. There's a fundamental problem with this that I'd like to look at - primarily the fact that, at least in the mid lane, your opponent is generally going to be behind the creepwave. This means that in scenarios where you are zoning your opponent, she can poke very well (by standing beside the creep wave to pressure opponents back, they have no creeps to hide behind). But... How do you reliably create this situation?

Looking at Karma's kit again (and this is how I play her now) - Karma is an all-in/trading mid laner. My play pattern looks like this - enemy opponent either uses spells on the wave or comes forward to last hit (depends on laner - if they're skillshot heavy I like to abuse E). Karma E's herself, comes forward, W, kite kite kite, Mantra Q. This will do 30%~50%+ damage to most midlaners, even at level 3, thanks to Mantra'd Q's absurd early damage.

If you want to kill someone with Karma, it is very rarely (in the laning phase) accomplished by poking them down with naked Q's. The Q range is not really THAT long, the explosion is big but the actual projectile is also big (making it very hard to shoot through creepwaves). It is almost always accomplished by using your W to root someone.

Looking at the changes, this means mid lane Karma has MORE options available to her. "But Cat, she can't get all her health back with one spell like before!"

You're right! But she still generates health swing and (honestly) having a health swing that isn't based on Karma's %HP is a pretty big buff to her lategame ability to swing trades/fights. You're going to probably (I would say definitely if you make spellvamp) outheal the old heal, but additionally, the target takes 10% additional damage.

This is a HUGE swing to Karma's ability to make picks and catch people out of position (which she already excels at) - giving the team's damage a slight boost.

And then we get to the E change.

I have seen multiple people saying things like "BUT MANTRA E DAMAGE WAS SUCH A GOOD WAY TO CLEAR WAVES!"

If you're clearing waves with Mantra E and it isn't pre-rework Karma, you've just wasted your Mantra. Looking at the damage it's clear - Mantra Q is superior for damage and waveclear in every scenario. You can hit the entire creepwave with it, it does more damage, slows, and you can use it from further away.

The shield is better (again, buffing her teamfight/skirmish presence) when Mantra is used, and with more Mantra available to her due to scaling CD/CD reduction, Mantra E is more available to her. All of these things are huge buffs.

So people talking about mid lane Karma being gutted? I've played mid-lane Karma since rework (since before rework) and, post-rework, have not felt Mantra E important to waveclear. Additionally, aside from a few fringe cases, the heal on W is also not integral to her performance. It's unlikely that this change will "gut" mid-lane Karma (anymore than she's already gutted for just working so well with another person).

10 Comments

Erockandroll3 votes

I have honestly played Karma mostly as a kiting mage. I mean you do have nice slow on a low cooldown spell. People seem to be complaining about clutch abilities to duel or clear wave going away, except that's not what she is, it merely hidden power that's not really inline with the rest of her kit. Yet the fact that the utility and CDR buff effects lane karma all the same means that she's not going away. She's just getting more focused into being a utility mage.

Abyssphere1 votes

So much truth. Just because she does a bit less damage doesn't mean her solo lane is ruined at all. It just means she's less used for her damage and more used for her utility, which is massive. Honestly she looks insane to me.

WabberJocky1 votes

I play Karma A lot as support. I think her kit was just fine the way it is but the new rework is nice and I dont really mind it. I dont think they should have touched her though lol

Danyul Targaryen1 votes

idk if i read it wrong but her heal is just gonna be plain bad. Only 20% of the damage she deals to the target? Shes not gonna be able to do the huge turn around she used to be able to do and the 10% damage is going to be useless since u cant use mantra q. They forced her bot lane

KidSpectre1 votes

But you can use Mantra more often thanks to the Mantra CD buff. Invest in a item 3115 and you'll be seeing that Mantra W up a lot more often.

I actually think it's a buff to the heal when she's above low health. Currently, if you were missing, say, 1000 hp, then you'll be healed by 200, then 160 if you get the root, for 360 healed. But say you're only missing 500 health. Then you only heal 100 and 80, for 180.

Now, remember that the new Mantra W heals for 20% of ALL damage dealt to the target. Solo, you'll heal 200 for every 1000 damage they take. But say it's you and your jungler. Now YOU will heal AND your jungler will too as long as they damage them. That's powerful.

Danyul Targaryen1 votes

{quoted}

But you can use Mantra more often thanks to the Mantra CD buff. Invest in a item 3115 and you'll be seeing that Mantra W up a lot more often.

I actually think it's a buff to the heal when she's above low health. Currently, if you were missing, say, 1000 hp, then you'll be healed by 200, then 160 if you get the root, for 360 healed. But say you're only missing 500 health. Then you only heal 100 and 80, for 180.

Now, remember that the new Mantra W heals for 20% of ALL damage dealt to the target. Solo, you'll heal 200 for every 1000 damage they take. But say it's you and your jungler. Now YOU will heal AND your jungler will too as long as they damage them. That's powerful.

You never build a nashors on her thats retarded. And if u cant deal damage u dont get any health back. No more turn arounds for karma R.I.P Mid lane karma 2015

KidSpectre1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danyul Targaryen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QrVx4tRP,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-05-13T21:37:23.791+0000)

You never build a nashors on her thats retarded. And if u cant deal damage u dont get any health back. No more turn arounds for karma R.I.P Mid lane karma 2015

What world do you live in that you don't auto attack frequently with Karma? Every time you go for a trade you should be AAing between spell casts. Refresh that mantra as often as possible. If all you're doing is fishing with Q poke and W only when you get jumped on, you're not doing it right.

jmonster1291 votes

normally yes you don't build nashors just cuz you can find other things, but it would be better on this newer karma, how good? not entirely sure, but remember that even auto attacking will heal karma during her RW, and if you applied the damage from noshers it would be a good amount of healing,

people assume that since RW was changed it was gutted but it just has a newer combo for turnarounds you really will need to have your e to shield off damage (which will now be available more often cuz of lower cooldowns), but also this change in the heal coming from damage instead of missing health now pushes karma to being built fully towards ap, it was kind of awkward to have a kiting mage have something that scales with health, now its pushing you to build as much ap as possible allowing you to do more damage, have fatter shields, and bigger heals

jmonster1291 votes

i like the changes, haven't tried them cuz i don't have a PBE account but i like the direction they're going although it is sad to see the last remnants of old school karma go, (shield bomb, and clutch heals) i think we've finally come to accept new karma as her unique identity and they're doing their best to really keep it solid rather than trying to hold onto what karma was

who knows maybe they'll bring back shield bombs and aoe tether mechanics to a new champion (i can only hope so)

Nameless Voice1 votes

Just regarding her new W, it's not just the heal that she's lost, it's also a lot of damage when she does her RW-Q combo. She no longer gains any bonus damage from her ultimate when buffing her W, other that a 10% increase on her Q and her (weak) autoaytacks.

She loss 25% of her damage output from that combo, and heals much less unless she has 71% health or higher.

See my numbers here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Lbz5F15Q-karma-changes-with-numbers

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