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Let's talk about what's ACTUALLY wrong with Yasuo

Battlecast Sona·11/26/2015, 7:40:51 PM·129 votes·19,992 views

I see a lot of Yasuo QQ threads and I'm kind of tired of seeing "omg rito he does so much damage + cc + mobility wtf nerf nao" and it's like uh. That's not where his hidden power is, and that's not why he's broken.

Reason 1 that Yasuo has tons of hidden power: Wonky spaghetti code windwall. If Yasuo times his W correctly, he can place it in any direction and it will block ANY projectile coming towards him, regardless of direction. The reason? Windwall has a hitbox has soon as Yasuo casts the spell, and the instant he casts it this hitbox intersects with Yasuo's, making him 100% immune to projectiles. The fix? Windwall has no hitbox until it is fully formed. This means Windwall is no longer a "oh god I heard the Sona ult sound effect lemme mash W in any direction to stop it" spell, and a calculated block. Still just as effective at blocking long range skillshots, less effective at blocking instantcast or skillshots from fog. COUNTERPLAY!

Reason 2 that Yasuo has tons of hidden power: Double passive. Yasuo has both a shield and double crit from his passive. Yes, his crits are weaker, but double crit at level 1 is pretty silly (as instanced by the brawler's glove 20% crit infinite sustain w/ warlord's bloodlust before the hotfix). Having 100% crit at 1 and a half items is ridiculous, especially when one of those items is Shiv (since you're guaranteed a shiv crit every time it procs). The fix? Put his crit on an ability (preferably W) so that Yasuo has to scale into his crit. 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% additional crit per rank. Gives him a reason to rank up windwall if he's snowballing while simultaneously forcing him to choose to delay his damage from abilities. Also, unless Yasuo ranks it up first, this locks him out of insane crit levels until the midgame, making his laning phase much less oppressive.

Nothing else about Yasuo's kit is the problem. It's not his E. It's not his ult. Those things, by themselves, are fine. But in combination with his ridiculous safety and low decision making requirements (due to W being such a reaction-based spell due to the hitbox interaction explained above), he also scales into damage very, very quickly (only requiring about 3k gold to hit 100% crit on live). The changes outlined above would make his laning phase less oppressive while retaining his mid-game teamfighting spikes and lategame damage spikes (which are not really where the problem is unless he's snowballed from lane, which these changes would address).

tl;dr: take the hidden power off of W and put crit passive on another ability to help Yasuo's kit be less overloaded and give him less for free instead of just flat nerfing him.

177 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoir11/27/2015, 7:01:01 AM81 votes

The interaction you're describing with Windwall is actually intended as far as I know; it's not the result of a coding error.

Making him scale into his crit passive in some way or another seems like a reasonable approach to reduce his power, though. Good suggestion.

RespectPlus11/26/2015, 11:02:04 PM26 votes

they should move the crit passive to his R, but instead of double chance, its gives flat 20%/25%/30%

IronwallJackson11/26/2015, 7:58:25 PM20 votes

The windwall thing isn't spaghetti code; it spawns inside of him and then moves forward. That's intended unless you think that Riot can't code static walls at all. Also, Yasuo's W is meant to be a form of counterplay against safe, ranged spells. It fulfils its purpose very well, and it's especially true if the player is fast enough to react. Hell, it helps higher latency players since they don't have to wait to see/hear the projectile, cast the spell, wait for their ping, and then wait for their cast time.

I'd argue about his passives as well, but I've been talking about Yasuo endlessly since the boards started throwing a collective hissy fit and I no longer possess the patience or energy to engage you in any further written fisticuffs.

Woook3r11/26/2015, 10:15:42 PM10 votes

yes put crit on windwall.

Polaritie11/27/2015, 7:23:02 AM7 votes

Eh, his E is extremely problematic in laning I think - there's a point where somebody becomes too mobile. There's a lot of champions (read: skillshot-based) who just can't do anything if he's dashing past them left and right while he gets to attack (and yeah, people will say not to fight with minions around... but that basically means not going in to last hit too, so...).

Playing against him with point and click abilities versus skillshots is night and day in terms of the matchup.

Edit: I don't have an issue with it as much in teamfights, even if it's still annoying - he lacks as dense a target field and so can't make multiple dash>Q spin passes at the same person so easily. I'm thinking tone down how often he can dash between creeps, because otherwise half the mages in the game are just a question of how fast you lose lane.

JustMyBassCannon11/27/2015, 1:11:18 AM5 votes

To Reason 1: All that we'd need to do, then, is have Wind Wall's hitbox start further in front of Yasuo. That's it. Instead of centering it on him, have it start at the front edge of his hitbox. This way, you can still make the same kind of last-second blocks that other, normal shield spells can do, but it does require you to actually aim the Wind Wall correctly.

To Reason 2: I just want to say that having multiple passives is never a valid complaint. Champions have had multiple passives or ultra-versatile passives since the dawn of the League. Having said that, the idea of having his Crit passive scale up--with an ability rank or with his champ level, either one--is a valid way to curb his early-game power (although I might suggest removing the 10% self-reduced damage if this happens).

Overall, this is a pretty rationally written post that accurately describes the real problems with Yasuo. The only criticisms I had for it are nitpicks rather than any issues with the material. People like you give me hope for the future of forum discussion.

TurboWindex11/26/2015, 11:22:36 PM3 votes

Part of what made yasuo balanced was how if his shield was down, you could poke him down. Granted you would have to have windwall on cd, or go around it but that was my main way of fighting against yasuo and my main weakness as yasuo. The new keystone mastery is so good on yasuo because it gives him 20% attackspeed practically all the time, making yasuo with 8% crit and e lv one even worse, and it heals him. So while before you could work for maybe a min in lane to get him to a spot he could be poked down, and do that enough to push him out, while you are trying to chip away at his passive and windwall, he is healing. The rest of the crit Items also work really well on him. I think a good Idea for a nerf would be to make it so his shield passive loweres his critical chance by 5%, and doesnt work untill you have 5%, this would prevent the shiv cloak 100%, make him weak to poke early, or force crit runes that wouldnt give him any crit chance. Keep in mind that Riot has said they dont give a flying fuck about balance pre season, so dont count on anything for a bit.

Drakylon11/27/2015, 3:09:58 PM2 votes

Wind Wall has no reason to last more than a fraction of a second. It was intended to be a "cut down projectiles" type of ability in the first place, but that was eventually made into Wind Wall because the concept was apparently too difficult to code. Right now it's used more as a zoning tool than a reactive counter to projectiles.

Cut its duration down to .5 to 1 second, similar to Fiora's Riposte, and make it spawn just slightly off of Yasuo's hitbox so that only projectiles from one direction are blocked right at the instant it's cast.

Dude Im a Nurse11/28/2015, 7:52:26 AM2 votes

The problem with Yasuo is that he's overused as all getout.

deJasper3611/27/2015, 4:54:31 PM1 votes

He already has a shitty winrate

Commando Yi11/30/2015, 3:39:12 PM1 votes

so this is basically a blind witch hunt by people who can't even recognize when a champion is strong or weak, just relying on their own personal experiences against the champion

who needs objective stats when we've got anecdotal evidence right?

Akeydel11/27/2015, 8:51:20 AM1 votes

Two things: 1: isnt the crit on item 3087 no longer 'guaranteed'? Last I checked it's possible for the damage to crit, if the aa would crit anyway, and doesnt add the % for each enemy hit. Itdoesnt really matter either way, after the 100% crit chance though....

2: One thing I believe was unintentional and definitely adds to Yasuo's hidden power is his ult being cast-able on ALL DISPLACEMENTS. When he was released, it seemed like they were aiming for specifically 'knockups' (Alistar Braum Chogath Malphite Nami Sion prolly missed a few that are so clearly defined) That would have limited his combo potential, and made him more situationally powerful, instead of having weird opportunities he arguably wouldn't have otherwis: Darius Diana Draven Hecarim Jayce Poppy Quinn Rammus Singed Syndra Thresh Tristana Trundle VayneVolibear