All the current crit code should be converted to Ashe's current passive AA modifier

DeusVult·May 24, 2015·6 votes·674 views

Which is that all attacks are treated as crits, but instead of critting for 200% damage, they instead follow the formula below:

100% total AD + (%critical chance x (1+Bonus Critical Strike Damage%)) = Total damage dealt through auto-attacks.

So instead of acting as a somewhat not RNG piece of RNG code, crit simply becomes an auto-attack damage modifier based on your total AD, crit chance and crit damage.

Which takes away the somewhat questionable circumstances when a champ lands 3-4 crits in a row to win a fight that they were losing beforehand.

Riot, you showed that this already works with your Ashe update, so just implement it to everyone.

And then you could just simplify "crit" by taking out "crit chance" and "crit damage" and instead just putting in a stat "Auto-attack increase." Name pending.

18 Comments

TilomentryMay 24, 20155 votes

There was a very good argument as to why this shouldn't happen. The gist of it goes as such:

-Because crit is random, You need to invest heavily into crit (full glass cannon) to make meaningful use of it (crit becomes a wasted stat otherwise)

-Because of how powerful crit is, there is a huge difference in power between crit builds and non-crit builds

-If crit became consistent, anyone (bruisers) could build crit and gain a huge power boost, at no risk of loss (crit is no longer wasted)

-therefore if everyone benefits from crit, then the difference in power between ADC and bruisers diminishes drastically

Right now there is a meaningful choice in picking a bruiser vs an ADC. Changing crit takes away that meaningfulness

TehNACHOMay 24, 20153 votes

1 is a null argument regardless. It's why Attack Speed anything does not work with everything.

And this has nothing to do with the random element of crits

No.

Do you really believe the real difference between melee bruisers and ranged marksman is just crit chance.

Really?

TilomentryMay 24, 20154 votes

Do I think that there is a difference between auto attacking for 300 damage and 750 damage? Yes...

Do I think there is a difference between critting once every 10 attacks and once every other attack? Yes...

TehNACHOMay 24, 20153 votes

300 vs 750? That won't happen with 10% crit chance if crit chance is reworked into Ashe styled crit chance. Hell, quite frankly, this is an argument against traditional styled Crits. If every auto attack simply did a measly 30 extra damage vs one auto attack randomly doing 450 bonus damage, the latter is just way worse to balance competitiveness around.

I mean really, you're missing the picture here. In 10 auto attacks between Ashe style crits and traditional crits, you're going to tend to do the same damage. The RNG element only effects "small" events (like very single auto attacks), not DPS.

This is why I compared it to Attack Speed. You can argue there's a gigantic difference between 0.68 attack speed and 2.5 attack speed, yes, but you need to invest into it gigantic amounts of gold to achieve that effect and even more gold into other stats to actually make a difference with that attack speed.

TilomentryMay 24, 20151 votes

The Ashe style change would make it more like 450 vs 600. That's a huge difference.

The flaw in your argument is that you normalize crit as a DPS value which is only valid against targets a that stand still. No one in this game stands still and auto attacks each other. Often it only takes 1-3 attacks to gauge the strength of your opponent and being guaranteed a crit in those 3 attacks is huge.

DeusVultMay 24, 20151 votes

Which is why crit as it is currently is flawed

attacking 3 times and getting a massive crit allows you to then dive that champ safely

attacking 3 times and getting nothing usually means that you retreat. Its called "Crit fishing" and is used by higher level players to take advantage of RNG. Instead of just dealing normal, constant DPS, they are looking for the RNG gods to give them a window into which they can take advantage of the enemies situation.

Normalizing crits stops this and makes for healthier, clearer game play. Currently, you can fight an ADC and they can take 10-15 shots to kill you in one fight, and then with the same items kills you in 5-7, all because of wether or not they crit.

which is neither clear nor healthy

TilomentryMay 25, 20151 votes

Didn't say crit wasn't problematic, but the Ashe style change would break the game far more than it would help. The change to crit needs to be far more creative to allow for clear distinction between a bruiser who builds some damage and defense and a carry who builds pure damage and spikes in power far higher than everyone else.

(Also crit is pseudo-random so events like 10-15 autos without a crit and then 5-7 autos with all crits wont happen)

DeusVultMay 24, 20153 votes

Crit, at any amount, is meaningful, since it gives you more damage. And even bruisers love crits, even if they don't play around them, which is why TriForce has crit in it. Dealing 300 damage on an auto instead of your base of 150 is huge in trying to take down the ADC/APC

There is a huge difference because only crit, which 99% of the time only effects AAs, has multiplicative scaling. If APCs had a way to crit on spells, they would get that too, and shit would be crazy.

If crit became consistent, it would mean that anyone who bought the item for its stats would actually get to use its stats. Including ADCs. Stacking crit is still gonna make you as powerful, and bruisers aren't going to go glass cannon just because "crit" is now consistent.

If everyone benefits from crit, which they currently do, nothing changes. It just keeps that 3/2/1 Cait with an IE as her only item from taking you from 50% to 0 in 3 hits while you have her down below 20%.

TilomentryMay 24, 20152 votes

Crit is not valuable at any amount because fights are not won after 20 seconds of beating on each other, they are won within the first 2-5 seconds of engaging on each other. Anything after is based on mechanical and tactical skills, not stats.

If crit became normalized, then bruisers would be able to gain damage that is comparable to glass canons within those first few seconds, while also still building defensive items.

DeusVultMay 24, 20151 votes

Damage that is comparable to glass canons

So the 10% crit chance that is on Triforce, which the one of the most purchased items for a bruiser as an offensive item, which would increase their base autos by 10% (not the proc, just the auto) would make them comparable to an ADC's 55% crit chance (IE + PD) multiplied by IE's passive for an AA increase of 82.5%

WHAT???????

TilomentryMay 25, 20151 votes

You amuse that builds would stay the exact same as they are now if the crit change went through. I can guarantee you that IE would spike in popularity on every AD and auto attack orientated champion. It's very possible that it would even overtake Triforce as the must buy item on all bruisers.

2-3 autos with IE would easily match Triforce's 10% crit + Sheen proc. Anything after that is just bonus to IE. This means that any champion the plays on-hit or with auto resets would be hard press to not buy IE for massive damage.

The only reason that Triforce still even has a chance of competing is because of all the other stats it gives.

Irelia BotMay 24, 20153 votes

I have been asking for this to happen since dodge was removed for being "unreliable" and "antifun"

I can only hope riot will let their game which has been so anti RNG/Psudo-RNG get rid of this last remaining luck psudo-RNG stat.

1000angrybeesMay 24, 20152 votes

I actually really love this style of crit damage, I loved how it worked as soon as it came out. The way crits work now always feel shitty, clunky, and sometimes unfair. I hate nothing more than feeling like I can keep fighting someone with crit chance and then being vaporized out of the blue. At least with ashe you KNOW or not if you can keep fighting.

FooDangMay 24, 20152 votes

Caitlyn thinks this is a great idea...

DeusVultMay 24, 20151 votes

Literally all AD champs think that this is a good idea

especially Gangplank

aaronautumnMay 24, 20151 votes

this would ruin ziggs

Mandang0May 24, 20151 votes

Yours is still a bad idea for all the reasons people have listed before (so I won't list them here)

Why it worked on Ashe: first of all, she was straight buffed with her new kit (has old Q for free, new Q is a steroid, E gets charges and is global). Also, she gets 10% bonus AD damage on her passive, which is smart because changing crit from spiky damage to reliable damage is a nerf. Ask any caster whether they'd prefer to deal their damage as burst or as a DoT, and you'll see why averaging crit out is a nerf: the spikiness lets you burst to win trades.

ModKnightsKemplarMay 24, 20151 votes

I think you're missing tilomentry's argument. Crit is a linchpin of the game's balance because of how it works on adcs. The random chance of crit has meaning, and it's exactly what you are saying up there.

Sometimes, crit can decide a fight in ridiculous fashion. That makes the adc a bigger and bigger source of damage as the game goes on, and gives both teams an objective. You must protect yours and kill your opponent's, because they are the only ones that can make FULL use of crit, because they can afford to build crit items and no tankiness due to their range.

If you change that, THE ENTIRE META BREAKS. I am perfectly okay with you wanting that, but I don't know that you understand it fully. It wouldn't be the same game afterwards. Your idea MIGHT work for adcs, but if other people can now get those benefits without the risk of randomness, adcs are useless. Might as well take them out of the game.