@Riot: A veteran Support main's opinion on the support role currently

Wolfeur··218 votes·7,785 views

Hello Riot,

I've been a support main on League since I started, during season 1. I've seen a lot of metas (Graves/Taric comes to mind), I remember the world in botlane pre-sightstone, I've seen the end of Heart of Gold and Philosopher's Stone and the start of Spellthief's Edge, Ancient Coin and Relic Shield, I remember taking CV/Flash and being happy with one finished item at the end of the match. I remember the rise and fall of champions, the reworks, the old Sona, Soraka and Taric. I remember Thresh's release, my heart melting for Braum and what they both meant for the support role.

For everything that you've done for us Support mains, I want to say: Thank you!

##That said… I'm here to talk about my opinion on the current state of supports in the game, and while there are a lot that has already been done, I wouldn't mind more improvements! I will also give some ideas I had thinking about it. ######Obviously, I will be completely subjective on this, since it's an opinion.

#What is a Support? What makes a champion a Support?

A Support is a character that, obviously, will help their teammates to win. The particularity of a support is that they don't interact directly with the primary element of the game: Damage. A support gives utility to their team, either through heals, buffs, debuffs or CCs (which are a specific type of debuffs). A support doesn't try and fight alone, but they amplify their ally's power; they ARE a living buff.

Finally, a support is a role, not a class, not a position. However, supports are almost exclusively played as a botlane partner, since the share of resources across the map seems to be optimized this way. I'll consider as support any character that is, in the meta, seen primary as a botlane partner.

##Who are the Supports; what classes are they in?

If we take a look at this article, we can see where the supports are categorized:

  • Tank – Vanguards: Leona Nautilus
  • Tank – Wardens: Braum TahmKench Thresh Alistar (Taric)
  • Mages – Burst: Annie (Brand)
  • Mages – Battle: (Brand) (Karma)
  • Controllers – Enchanters: Janna Nami Sona Soraka Lulu Bard Zilean Ivern (Karma) (Taric)
  • Controllers – Disruptors: Zyra
  • Unique: Blitzcrank Kennen

In parenthesis are Hybrid playstyles.

We can already conclude obvious things from that: Enchanters, with 100%, has the biggest ratio of supports in category, followed by Wardens, with 50%. All other categories contain 0 to 2 supports. Also, if we remove those whose initial design was not meant to be a support, there is only one other class containing a sole champion: Vanguards, with Leona, whose kit was designed to go paired with an ally in lane.

So why are there other champions, and why are they played support? None of these interact with their ally with their kits. No heal, no shield and no buff. There are two factors that explain their role: High base stats and reliable/powerful CC. They can, even though they don't have buffs, peel for their teams thanks to somewhat reliable CC or by their quantity, while they either tank enough or deal enough damage with a limited gold income. We can say that these champions are mostly outliers that happen to function in an unintended role. What we're more interested is what defines a support. If we remove outliers, we are left with only 2 classes:

##A support can be either a Tank or an Enchanter.

In Tanks, we can see Vanguards and Wardens. While the latter is closer to the typical thematics of a support, the former works well in the role by enabling the fight for their mates. Tanks soak up a lot of damage, which is helpful for them, thus indirectly for their allies. The difference between them and Wardens is that Wardens use their tankiness to actively protect while Vanguards use it mostly to survive in the fray, extending their impact. Enchanters are the pure definition of a support: they buff, debuff, heal, and apply CC while doing very little damage (except, for some, early poke in lane).

#Popularity of the role: a lack of incentive

You can try and make the role as complex, fun and rewarding as you want, Supports will never be popular. Never. The thing is that there are people that either don't want to be reliant on their teammates or merely just don't like not being powerful damage-wise. Being support is getting away from the central gameplay element, which is damage. I don't care not doing damage in fights, that's not what I'm playing support for.

However, I have to say that there is something that really bothers me: I can't play the objective. Every single objective in the game needs damage, From the minions to the monsters, towers and even nexi. I can't deal damage, fine. I can't interact with the map, problematic. Even in the late game, I can't afford to go get a small jungle camp, I can't push a lane by myself. But I can ward! And to ward, I need to wander in the map. But on my path, I realize that I have nothing else to do than wait. That's a problem. Even clearing enemy wards I don't do well, because I lack AS.

There are only 2 elements of out-of-combat gameplay that don't scale in power with combat stats: Placing wards and triggering plants. I'm not saying they're not important, but for a role that's about tactics, with already limited and conditional power in combat, the amount of doable actions for supports is awfully low. And consider that wards can also be placed by allies and that Sightstone pushes the support further away from combat stats, and that plants are equally doable by any member of the team.

The only out-of-combat action a support does better than their team is placing wards. A support can't clear, can't farm, can't push or depush, can't get towers, buffs, nor epic monsters.

I don't care what I can't do, every role has its weakness. The problem is that there is not much left for me to do out of a fight. This has often led me to wander around, trying to reach my closest ally for an unnecessary skirmish.

The problem with Sightstone is that it is the only way for a support to have an out-of-combat utility but that it also gets them away from the only thing in which they manage to still be relevant, causing them to be quite irrelevant in AND out of combat. The issue is even bigger that support already have troubles getting stuff in the first place.

In the end, supports, besides their very nature that many people don't like, have a huge lack of reasons to feel useful, because they're pushed so much towards warding power that they eventually don't even get the stats they need for combat.

Supports need map objectives that synergize with their innate strength!

#Stats and itemization: a lack of dedication; a problematic competition

(First of all, I am going to talk mostly about Enchanter itemization, mainly because I don't have that many ideas to give for Tank supports.)

Support itemization, the eternal problem. How to make a Vanguard item affordable for a support? Or an enchanter item that won't be abused by mages?

Well, there is a question that we need to ask before we answer to that: Do we accept the idea that a support will always have less gold? Then do we agree to balance their itemization accordingly, enforcing the impoverishing meta of a duo-laner?

If we accept this idea (which personally doesn't bother me and makes sense, since supports need an ally to function), we can then move forward, but there is still a sacrifice to make. A loss of elegance in the stat system: the addition of a new stat. And I am going to explain why it is needed.

Enchanters have a big itemization problem right now, and not the one we would think of. This is not about not feeling powerful or a balance issue.

##It's an identity problem

Enchanter items now give something that only Enchanters want: Healing and shielding power. But this cause the Enchanter class to be reduced to only that thing.

The thing is, a support build for an enchanter will often look like this: item 3117 item 2301 item 3107 item 3190 item 3174 and item 3222/item 3504 four of them have an active component, three improve heals and shields, one heals, one shields, one heals when you heal or shield, one procs when you heal or shield. One places a ward.

Don't get me wrong, I love healing my teammates and I love being able to improve my heals.

But when half of your actives does not depend on your champion, and that you are reduced to a healing/shielding machine, what's the point of having more than one Enchanter in the game? To top it off, we only get one Keystone, which also add power to heals and shields.

And obviously, we can't give too much AP to items, because mages would abuse them, nor we can boost the Enchanters' AP ratio, because their sololaning would become unbalanceable,

Therefore, I suggest that Enchanters, for the sake of identity diversity, get their own stat: Enchanting Power (EP).

EP would be present only for enchanter items, and ratios limited to non-damaging abilities in Enchanters' kits. This way, we can, without the worry of mages abusing it, give stats to support at a lower cost. Plus, you can add a new type of ability: enchantments, which would designate abilities with an EP ratio. Therefore, you can have items whose effect triggers when you "enchant" an ally or an enemy.

You can also boost or nerf the ratios for supports to give them more defined strengths. Soraka could have a better heal; Janna, a better AD buff; Nami, a better speed boost, etc…

Here are examples of what could be done with EP (numbers are a bit random, this is just for illustration):

NEW Dryad's bangle —> 300 Gold +15 EP New item as referent, defines what has EP and the base cost of 20g per EP.

item 3114 —> item 1004 + Dryad's bangle + 375g = 800 Gold +20 EP +50% base mana regeneration UNIQUE: +10% cooldown reduction Reworked as an intermediary item for basic enchanter stats.

item 3174 —> item 3028 + item 3114 + item 1052 + 65g = 2100 Gold +25 AP +25 EP +25 magic resistance +75% base mana regeneration +10% cooldown reduction Same passives See below…

item 3222 —> item 3028 + item 3114 + Dryad's bangle + 200g = 2100 Gold +60 EP +35 magic resistance +75% base mana regeneration +10% cooldown reduction Same passive and active Grail and Crucible now more clearly focused on 2 facets, the former being more damage focused, and the latter more universally utilitary. Grail has now only 10% CDR to avoid CDR overload.

item 3504 —> item 3114 + item 3113 + 650g = 2300 Gold +30 AP +30 EP +50% base mana regeneration +10% cooldown reduction Passive UNIQUE: +8% movement speed UNIQUE: Enchanting allied champions (excluding yourself) grant them +20% (+1% per 20 EP) attack speed and their attacks drain 10 (+15% EP) health on-hit for 6 seconds. Added some EP and scaling, so that it's power actually grows with the game and you don't feel like it's too late to buy it. Also, use of the Enchanting term.

item 3107 —> item 3114 + item 3801 + 650g = 2100 Gold +30 EP +400 health +75% base mana regeneration +75% base health regeneration +10% cooldown reduction Active UNIQUE: Target an area within 5500 range. After 2.5 second, call down a beam of light to heal allies for 100 - 440 (based on target's level)(+65% EP), deals 10% of maximum health true damage to enemy champions and 250 true damage to minions (120 second cooldown). Can be used while dead. This effect is halved if the target has been affected by another Redemption item.png Redemption recently. Basically the same. This item is basically the big healing item, so that's ok to keep its focus on it. The boost of EP instead of just healing power still allow a better diversity in champion kits.

item 3303 —> 350 Gold Same stats UNIQUE – TRIBUTE: Spells and basic attacks against champions or buildings deal 10 additional damage, grant 8 Gold and permanently give 1 EP. This can occur up to 3 times every 30 seconds. Killing a minion disables this passive for 12 seconds. This change allows to reduce the power gap while keeping interactive gameplay, a bit like an enchanter's version of Veigar's passive. Still limited by the CD but stays relevant for the whole game.

item 3050 —> item 3024 + item 1052 + Dryad's bangle + 365g = 2100 Gold +30 AP +30 EP +30 armor +250 mana +10% cooldown reduction Passive UNIQUE: When within 1000-units of each other, you and your Conduit will generate 1 charge every second, up to 100, with a bonus 4 / 2 charges whenever you or your ally attack, and 8 / 4 on spell cast. At 100 charge, dealing damage grants you 15-49 EP (based on your level) and your Conduit 20% increased AP and +50% flat critical strike chance for 8 seconds. Basically the same idea but you don't get the not-that-useless stats but EP instead.

##Other items

There could also be something for item 3301-line, but first it needs to find its niche, whether it tries to attract Enchanters or Tanks.

We could also have an EP version of item 2049, though I'd like the vision game to get a bit away from the support role, which could either be an equally participating role in the vision game or focus more on ward killing.

##And Wardens, Vanguards?

I'm afraid I don't have any good idea to share with you on that matter. I'll just say that item 3109 was a big step in the good direction. I can still point out the two main problems:

  • Items a bit overpriced for a support income
  • Big lack of CDR

But I think Riot already knows about these.

#Conclusion

The support role has been constantly evolving throughout League's history, and most of the time for the better.

We should however realize that there are things to improve. First, we need to clearly define what supports are. Then, see what they absolutely need that they still lack and if the recent additions have been a good idea. Finally, we need to find what we could do to help them.

We've checked all of that. Here is a summary:

  1. Supports are mainly Enchanters and Wardens, with also a couple of Vanguards. They are champions that don't rely on damage but helps their teammates through CC and buffs, mostly.
  2. Supports cruelly lack purpose outside of combat, besides warding, which is not even an innate strength of them. They also need a better itemization that will reinforce their strengths.
  3. The new itemization was good overall for the feeling of power but at the cost of a strong loss of champion identity.
  4. For the Enchanters, the addition of a dedicated stat similar to AP, meant for utility power, with an itemization revamped aroud it would probably resolve a lot of problems.

Thank you for reading.

198 Comments

ChaddyFantome67 votes

I know most people wont read this but as a support player, you hit every damn nail on the head! Thank you for making this. Been saying so much of this for years now! Maybe now that YOU are saying it, people will take it seriously :)

Wolfeur18 votes

Thank you very much, it means a lot to me! (also, is there any mistake in my English?)

ChaddyFantome10 votes

{quoted}

Thank you very much, it means a lot to me! (also, is there any mistake in my English?)

not that i noticed, no. :P

Wolfeur5 votes

Nice, I'm getting better and better!

ValiantDogFood5 votes

I assumed you were British, your English was very flawless and educated, better than almost all those who learned English as a first language. To be honest, it astonishes me that you didn't grow up on it.

Wolfeur2 votes

I'm Belgian. I'm a French native and I learned Dutch for a long time, so it helped me to learn English. I also live in Brussels, the capital of Europe and I play English games and watch English movies and shows. Finally, I speak English at work.

So yeah, I'm very prone to hear and speak English on a daily basis.

Stormshadow35033 votes

{quoted}

Thank you very much, it means a lot to me! (also, is there any mistake in my English?)

change the "is" to are and make the "mistake" plural form.

The mistakes are relatively minor; for the purposes of a forums site, no one would stop to mention it out of the blue.

Z3bra31 votes

"The only out-of-combat action a support does better than their team is placing wards. A support can't clear, can't farm, can't push or depush, can't get towers, buffs, nor epic monsters."

This. A thousand times this.

SiberianTiger2 votes

While I totally agree with that sentence, I just don't get how these new fancy items and (the most important) this new stat should fix this. IMO, this "EP" will only emphasise the diversity between supports and other champions. I cry every time I see suggestions to add it to the game, especially as ex sona main. It will break any new ideas for botlane duo because other champions will not have EP: good bye zyra/veigar/brand supports, good bye vi/lee sin duos. Moreover, you won't be able to take any "support" champ to other lane. Have you seen Sona mid? Zyra mid? Brand mid?:) Karma top? Well, nobody will be able to play them anywhere but botlane if Riot adds EP. Apparently, people have to play meta only and should not have fun with experiments at all.

An Undead brat5 votes

Zyra wouldn't get EP ratios, because even though Riot likes the diversity, they want her to be a midlaner mainly.

Brand is still played mid mainly

Tank Karma top is toxic tbh.

SiberianTiger1 votes

So you mean that only a few champs must be played as supp and you cannot take supp champs to other lanes, no experiments allowed?

An Undead brat2 votes

What

What the hell did give you the idea I said that? I said only that they wouldn's get destroyed by adding EP, only that they wouldn't get it, because they're mainly midlaners, but they would be still allowed to build AP if they were picked as supports, because they're damage-focused supports anyway. And still, if you take a support to other lane, they will mostly build support items, because they're just useless with any other even now, plus they don't have waveclear even with AP items. And noone says they can't have both scalings, like Lulu suits perfectly to AP + EP duo scaling.

Partholonian2 votes

But if a bunch of support items have their AP replaced with EP, then Zyra/Brand/Annie can't build them anymore because EP is a dead stat to them, potentially forcing them out of the role.

Meanwhile, people like Lux (who doesn't even make your list?) and Karma have as part of their niche that they actually can do some damage even as supports while also protecting/enchanting. But if they trade AP for EP, they weaken that niche and there isn't as much point to consider them compared to classic enchanter supports like Soraka/Nami/Janna.

SpecterVonBaren18 votes

{quoted}

In the end, supports, besides their very nature that many people don't like, have a huge lack of reasons to feel useful, because they're pushed so much towards warding power that they eventually don't even get the stats they need for combat.

Supports need map objectives that synergize with their innate strength!

You know... now I'm wondering if Riot shouldn't let ALL enchanter supports be able to interact with a turret like Janna already does. Why not let Nami use her E on a turret to give its next three shots a slow? What if Soraka could use her E on an enemy turret to disable it for one turret shot? Zilean could speed up the shots of an ally turret, Lulu could polymorph an enemy turret to deal reduced damage for three shots.

Why not let us support players be the champs that can effect objectives in a way that isn't damage related since we don't deal much damage anyway?

Also, I've also been of the opinion that we need Utility Scaling of some form for a while now. It should also be added to items like Frozen Heart and Ohmwrecker since they are more utility oriented than other items.

Adding utility ratios to tanks and their items for improved CC would also help differentiate someone like Nautilus from Darius when it comes to building tank items since Nautilus buying Frozen Heart is also getting improved CC for longer lockdown for his allies to capitalize on while Riot would make Darius have NO utility scaling so all he gets are defensive stats.

TeCoolMage3 votes

This. Enchanters were given more teamfight options when they already have strength in teamfights. What they're lacking is pretty much any form of objective control or map pressure (warding denies overall map pressure the enemy gives, I'm referring to map pressure in a jungler, roaming mid, splitting top sense, how your physical character and whether you are visible on the enemy minimap or not at that very moment can make the enemy team say, "oh shite change of plans."). Even past laning phase mages stuck with waveclear duty or ADCs in freeze lane farm mode pressure the map more and either invite the enemy to try and gank/dive or force a teamfight

Glory ln Death2 votes

And Taric can target ally turrets with his W! The turret can now stun you and go invulnerable! No healing it, though.

Weasel Kensei9 votes

You lost me a bit with the "new stat enchanting power."

Overall I think you offered some good critical analysis to some support problem undertones that are in the game.

Here is an upvote because people should read it.

One of the VERY VERY best ideas in Dawngate (RIP Dawngate, EA is stupid) was the "roles." While there were 4 in all, mostly it is the Gladiator and the Tactician I want to mention. Any champ could take any role, but Gladiators got bonus gold for minion kills. Tacticians worked essintialy like a hybrid of Bandit mastery, and Spell Thief enemy champ damage proc worked.

Minions had a base gold value for dying near by a champ, and a bonus to the person who last hits them, and the Gladiators (carries) got bonus gold on top of that for slaying them. Tacticians got the base plus bonus proximity gold for near by minions killed, and bonus gold for damaging enemy champions on a cooldown, AND bonus gold on assist. A skilled Tactician could even out gold a Gladiator with their income if the Gladiator missed about 15% of the minions durring typical laning phase.

For those who dont know the game had two lanes, a fairly expansive jungle, 5 players per side, typicaly 2 duo lanes and a jg champ. The role system made it where you could even have carries in a lane working as full time harassment and still get gold... It would be like if Jhin was the bot lane ADC, and there was an Ashe with him who got 90 - 105% of his gold just by constantly poking at you. Food for though.

Rozzeta2 votes

I really miss Dawngate. It had some questionable things like the Faris/Mina lane, but was lots of fun.

Unlucky475 votes

Man you just took me for a wild ride. I have two main things to say about your post. The idea for making a support only power is good. It really would make the class more unique.

But the problem I had with your post is that you basically say "Supports are like living buffs". This is true and the support role should be seen this way. But then you say that supports should have map objectives for them. I don't agree with this at all. I'm not sure what you had in mind as far as those objectives but I think it would ultimately give too much power to the support role.

The thing is, Riot has done a lot for the support role in these last few patches. They went from peeling for adcs and keeping one or two people alive to keeping everyone alive with shielding and healing. I'm going to address two issues with that.

  1. The items that Riot has made/changed for the support role are probably a little too strong. The idea that locket shields an entire team or redemption heals AND damages is kind of powerful alone.

  2. Supports don't really need to play well anymore. I'm not a support main. But I can play support to great effect just because of how simple riot has made the role. The problem exist in the fact that supports went from having to play well to be effective, to being effective almost no matter what in team fights. A couple of patches ago a Braum would use his shield to block damage while trying to set up a good ultimate to displace a team. Now the Braum just needs to throw his ult while pressing locket and redemption to protect most of his team. There's a lack of required effort to be effective.

Basically, to sum up, The idea of EP is good, but the new items and changes have made the support role too easy. I'm not saying the support role should be a carry role but it should at least require more than activating a few items to do well.

Arkilusal4 votes

So here's something I noticed in your talk that might have been something overlooked in this discussion so far- ** From the minions to the monsters, towers and even nexi. I can't deal damage, fine. I can't interact with the map, problematic.** Basically, this leaves Supports with no real agency, because their time&resources are best used in aiding others, and THIS, is where all the problems stem from, the whole 'I gotta help my teammates even if they're feeders!' 'I've got to do the warding!' all the selflessness really comes from-it's the best use of our resources and this pushes us to basically be more akin to a team-slave, as opposed to a team-mate. What I think might help, is more items to encourage the idea of 'map control' instead of simply being a 'ward-bot', and from there...Hrrm. There's already the itemset to support this notion, from item 3056 , to item 3512 , as well as the already-accepted as support items item 3060 and item 3107 . Another interesting possible angle is more 'jungle-focused supports', like Ivern or Nunu. Since the Jungler kind of does similar things to a Support (trading off EXP and Gold for Map Control), it seems like a natural idea to stick a Support into the Jungle in the first place, since a dominate laner could potentially snowball with/without the Supporting aid of a gank. Highlighting this possible angle/play style to Supports should increase the viability of a solo-support, and thus give Supports something that can be an obvious draw to why you'd want to go that route instead of simply being the unlucky shmuck who's willing to roll over and take the 'least fun' role.

Wolfeur4 votes

Basically, this leaves Supports with no real agency, because their time&resources are best used in aiding others, and THIS, is where all the problems stem from, the whole 'I gotta help my teammates even if they're feeders!' 'I've got to do the warding!' all the selflessness really comes from-it's the best use of our resources and this pushes us to basically be more akin to a team-slave, as opposed to a team-mate.

This, especially the end, is very true.

it seems like a natural idea to stick a Support into the Jungle in the first place

For once, I'll have to disagree. The jungle is by essence an objective that needs damage. Not all supports can be Ivern. Plus, the support has been put with the ADC for 2 reasons:

  • A support can't 1v1, except in special circonstances of course. Again, not all can be Ivern.
  • The reason he is with the ADC is two-fold
  • The ADC has a week early game and benefits best from the protection and feed potential given by the support
  • The ADC is less reliant on levels than the other laners, making XP sharing less problematic.
TeCoolMage4 votes

The idea of making supports only in bot lane is ridiculous, the only support incapable of using an ability in a solo lane is Soraka and even then she has extreme late game scaling. They made a jungler enchanter, why the hell is solo laning as one wrong?

Just give supports solo lane gold income, change their stats. The idea of mage bot lane being some form of 'abuse' is only because the support purists and elitists hate the fact people play differently from them and want to feel needed by having their role in high demand due to meta enforcement. If Lux support starves her own ADC of gold, don't go around saying "oh muh janna mechanics shes playing easy mode with lux gg you deserve to die kys go back to cotton factory", just take the won lane and move on.

In the end, an enchanter/controller is just a fancy word for utility oriented mage. I don't mind EP, but I hate the idea of forcing supports into only champions with healing, shielding or tankiness in their kits. I thought it emphasized coordination and teamplay, not baby sitting and poverty

FilDaFunk1 votes

The EP wouldn't be necessary, as mage supports still have all the ap items to buy. Enchanters don't have many options in items and a lot of their kit becomes underwhelming.

TeCoolMage1 votes

The problem is that items like abyssal scepter, void staff, and liandries are taken out of AP itemization if Riot ever decides to make an AP carry not based around damage and Athenes + Ardent censer have less raw AP than most of the damage items taken out

In the end Ardent Censer is the only remotely solo lane / carry gold based heal/shield item, and they end up having to take stuff like luden's, lichbane and protobelt to up their damage ratios, take support items and gimp their end game numbers, build tanky, OR waste money on mana/CDR when their builds will traditionally have more than enough resources to go on forever. I've never gone OOM on Soraka after one mana item. It also forces things like always getting Zhonya's for the sake of filling that last slot with AP even against a no diver magic damage comp.

Whether making EP or just making enchanter solo lane items with AP is the decision is debatable, and depends on how Lux and Orianna use them compared to Soraka and Janna

FilDaFunk1 votes

In solo lane, EP would be useless, since i'd assume it would on shields that can be casted on allies. you said "AP carry not based on damage" - that is not an ap carry. A good example here is orianna, she can be played as a support focused on control - she would benefit greatly from the increased shield, and would still be useful to the team without damage. The point of thes items is for duo lane supports.

TeCoolMage1 votes

It's more than possible to make an AP carry not based on damage. And pretty much every shield can be self casted, the only exception to an EP based ability not being self castable would be Soraka.

Example:

Passive - Gain a small shield scaling with level (no AP scaling or at least very tiny) after landing an ability on an enemy

Q - A skill shot that fears 1 target for 1+(0.01/0.02/0.03/0.04/0.05) AP and deals a small amount of damage scaling with AP

W - (Think aiming a point and click graves ult, it extends into a cone opposite of you) slow and damage one enemy scaling with AP, giving the same movement speed as a speed buff to allies away from you in a cone extending to the opposite direction.

E - Turns camoflaged then flies in an arc like tristana's jump (except slower, think A. Sol except it can be used in combat) and lands+leaves camoflage (dealing no damage). After a small delay, blink back to starting position

R - Forms a tether that can be interrupted with crowd control, reducing the damage of one enemy champion in range by a percentage scaling with AP until they leave range, or after x seconds. can go up to 100% damage reduction with enough AP (so it's like Kayle's ult in a 1v1 or a pick.)

Very weak without items, she relies on securing jungler ganks in laning phase before scaling into a monster that specializes in flanking opponents using EQW combo to fear an important target to walk into her team while speeding up chasing allies, and carrying the game by making coordinated picks in the jungle or working late game in a team that specializes in 2v2 to 3v3 skirmishes by turning a 5v5 team fight into a smaller fight with a very early pick and an ult.

She can also be used as a counter pick against wombo combo teams like Leona + MF, leaving MF dealing much less damage and potentially wasting her ult if Leona does not interrupt the tether.

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

Yeah, I suggested a new stat a few weeks ago (I called it UP), and I was informed on my thread that it had been suggested before me. Lots of people recognize this need. I think it would be a ton of work for Riot, so I see why they haven't. But it's really necessary. We are the closest, right now, as we have ever been to having great itemization for supports, but getting a new stat would take things to the next level, imo.

Wolfeur11 votes

Definitely. Riot can't keep AP for utility, they are too different in purpose to work with the same stat.

ModKnightsKemplar5 votes

Worst offender = Lulu. You really can't scale her utility with AP and have her balanced as a support and a solo laner.

They finally nerfed her until solo lane Lulu wasn't viable anymore, but now support Lulu is awful. It's just not tenable.

chipndip13 votes

I'm sorry, but this idea of making an enchanter-specific stat is flawed on many levels.

  • Doing this will make Brand/Zyra absolutely god tier in bot lane. They already thrive by bringing enough utility with a good deal of damage, something other supports can't emulate because they're heavily discouraged from building damage. Now we're going to discourage that EVEN MORE, and even make it so that you can't build damage and utility at the same time? If you guys hate mages taken bot now, making a new stat to bottleneck enchanters into will make it 3 times worse.

  • This new stat takes no consideration of any other champion outside of enchanters, and making an ENTIRE STAT for, like, one tenth of the roster? Really?

  • This doesn't solve the issue of ramming healing/shielding down our throats. It only renames it.

  • This gives more excuses for Riot to be lazy with itemization and support role diversity by forcing people into this stat, which is basically heal/shield power with a new name.

Bad idea.

Rozzeta5 votes

Technically, this should gate mages in bot lane into building more expensive items for AP, or lose money on a stat they would not use. This new stat would apply not only to shielding and healing, but also to other things like speed increases, the damage buffs from Sona's Q aura or Janna's shield, that sort of things. An ideal would be to even have CC scale with it on marginal amounts, but that's kinda risky. By being a different stat instead of AP, the base and scaling elements of a support's utility cand be adjusted independently from the damage they could build. Let's not forget that the nerf received by supports on the eve of scaling utility is what oppened the door to bot lane mages in the first place.

chipndip11 votes

Brand and Zyra already build slow. All their damage is primarily coming from working spells with their passives with the little ap they squeak in. By forcing every other support to not build damage, you're giving Brand and Zyra free reign to do what other supports do (provide utility) and more (provide damage). You don't fix the problem by backing out.

Also, once again, you can't make a stat that only one class of champions in a roster of 130+ champions is going to use ever. This doesn't address anything about hybrids that want a good sum of ap for both utility and damage, as well as any other type of support that isn't a passive enchanter.

Rozzeta4 votes

Again, without the AP ratios on utility, the numbers can be reworked to get higher bases (the ones they lost when AP utility was introduced) managed by a different ratio on another stat. The dip in the base values of everything, damage and utility, inctoduced along with ap scaling utility was what allowed mages into bot lane in the first place. Also, I don't really see the problem of having a stat that only a few will actually use. Critical chance, outside of gimmics like Garen's E, is only built by the AD carry type, after all.

chipndip11 votes

Crit can be applied to anyone in the game. You're saying to make a new scaling that less than 20 champs will see in their entire kits. Big difference.

Also, if you allow for more scaling power, that'll call for more nerfs to utility, not less.

Lastly, none of this answers how Zyra and Brand's high base damage and hard cc will magically be weaker than someone that can only puff a heal or shield every few seconds and use hard cc, but with very little to no damage output.

Rozzeta4 votes

They are not going to get weakened, but redirecting utility scaling to its own stat would allow for the increase of base and potentially AP scaling of other supports. I repeat, again, for the third time, that the reason mages got into bot lane in the first place was because supports base damage and utility was reduced as a result of having them both scale with the same element, AP (which provided a "double benefit" out of the same stat).

chipndip12 votes
  • If you have less damage, you have less agency in a fight unless you double down on what you DO provide. Brand and Zyra's damage is always going to trump passive defensive options unless you overdose on the ladder.

  • Zyra/Brand pack hard cc. Hard cc is the most potent type of support one can bring, and it doesn't need to be scaled. Adding another scaling won't change their hard cc, and thus won't remove them from bot lane.

  • All this does is make it harder for enchanters to be aggressive in the game.

  • You can't buff bases and scalings at the same time. When one goes up, usually the other goes down.

Rozzeta2 votes

This is my last reply to this, since apparently getting to you is an exercise in futility.

All I have left to say is that you should familiarize with the Support changes during preseason 4, starting from this patch to understand the importance of giving utility it's own stat to scale with, if scaling utility is still going to be a thing.

Wolfeur7 votes

Doing this will make Brand/Zyra absolutely god tier in bot lane.

Actually, it would push them out of botlane. They wouldn't have EP scaling and the proposed changes who gut their AP itemization.

This new stat takes no consideration of any other champion outside of enchanters, and making an ENTIRE STAT for, like, one tenth of the roster? Really?

Well, yeah. Enchanters need this stat. They can't share a stat with mages without creating problems

This doesn't solve the issue of ramming healing/shielding down our throats. It only renames it. This gives more excuses for Riot to be lazy with itemization and support role diversity by forcing people into this stat, which is basically heal/shield power with a new name.

The point is to give EP scalings to other things than heals and shields. It gives Riot more agency to rework kits around it.

TeCoolMage1 votes

To be fair he does raise some good points.

If I was playing Karma, Nami or Lulu, who have both shields/heals AND damage, you stop me from being able to use any damage at all, if I want a strong shield I might as well have AD scaling on my Q (and these champions, despite dealing not that much damage a lot of the time, ARE balanced around having this small bit of oomph in their damaging abilities in the first place)

Simply buffing the shields doesn't help - it means I'd just be existing for one ability..

Unlike AD/AP's relationship where if you get an item that has a ton of both it can be broken considering that lots of AD champs have at least 1 AP ratio and AP champs can always auto when they run out of mana or have cooldowns, EP is added in a world where the ratios they replaced were balanced around increasing a damage ability too in the process.

It would actually be perfectly balanced to make ardent censer 60 EP and 60 AP, rather than adding up with 30 on each. Worst case scenario lux or Orianna take it and gain the exact same benefit they do with current ardent censer. Which is really not that much compared to full damage AP items.

Updated AP itemization sets this up for success too since lots of power gets taken out of AP itself and gets put into passives or actives that directly increase damage. AP EP items don't have damage based actives or passives.

Wolfeur2 votes

AP on items can be ajusted to support both solo and support roles, since the separation with EP allows healthy balancing. EP can be any number. I could give item 3114 1436 EP if I wanted, in the end it all depends on the ratios.

Rozzeta3 votes

Actually, if you remember her spotlight video, Riot did not actually intend Leona to be a duo lane support. The have been adjusting her for that role since the playerbase found that niche for her.

That out of the way, you raise some great points here. It's undeniable at this point that, should scaling utility should remain to exist, it needs it's own stat. I'm tired of hearing Riot gutting a champion that needs AP for their utility (let's all remember any utility which received a scaling had it's base values nerfed, except for Lona's W defenses) because they also end up doing damage due to the deal. As a result, we often have this situation where both damage and utility end up being lackluster due to the double scaling.

Saevum3 votes

Sightstone should have a passive to increase experience gained when an allied champion last hits stuff. Just like when the coin give extra gold per kill.

PD. Best post i have read in months. No, in years. Upvoted.

Moooose32 votes

Umm I play support and I think the role is fine. Over my 3 diamond accounts I have a 68% winrate on thresh in 400 games(100 on each) and a 64% winrate on support as a whole. It doesn't need to be fixed. There are support mains, there are people that are ok supporting, and there are people who will if they have to. It's the same as any other role. And sure it might not be as popular as mid or adc, but honestly who cares there should be a natural distribution. The role doesn't need to be fixed honestly I haven't seen any issues with people legitimately upset with the support role as a whole. Most of the things I see is the boards over hyping something that isn't even an issue, and people who have never played support before complaining. I respect your opinion since you've obviously actually played the role before and have put together a very in depth analysis but I'd have to disagree with you. Supports main role might not be damage, but it's important and if played right can carry games as well.

Wolfeur25 votes

Just to be clear, I'm not stating that support are underpowered or need buffs. I'm pointing out the lack of action options and an identity-reductive itemization.

I still enjoy a lot playing support, that's what I like best, but saying "all is fine" wouldn't have given us the current gold gens, sightstone or redemption. There are a lot of things that can be improved, but it's not a matter of balance.

Moooose311 votes

Ok fair enough sorry that's probably my fault i skimmed over parts of it. Sure things can be improved but I still think the role is in the best place its been in a while.

Wolfeur6 votes

On that we agree

The Yetii Rider2 votes

This seems...bad. Your numbers are so incredibly low. 30 EP on most finished items? What kind of ratios would we be looking at? If Sona has a 60% EP ratio on her heal, then getting four items or so gives you about 200 EP, so that's only 120 extra shielding on her W at the end of the game. The point of giving them their own stat would be to make them able to actually get some good scaling on their items without it being abused by mages, but if you kneecap the amount then it's not going to change anything.

50000000000000003 votes

I agree on numbers being a bit strange, but I think we can toss numbers around to better balance it. The concept is good though, no?

Wolfeur4 votes

This is just a concept. Technically, they could give 300% ratios to Soraka's W. It's just a balance number issue.

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