The blue plant is ridiculously strong

The Deckowner·Nov 9, 2016·77 votes·4,088 views

Just had a game where the enemy Jungler got completely fucked over by scryer blooms.

Basically we have stronger early lane, my jungler just goes into the enemy jungle, hit the scryer bloom, see basically the entirety of one side of the enemy jungle, then we go into the jungle and force the enemy jungler out while we take his farm(or if he isn't there then just free farm for us). Repeat this a few times and enemy jungler is basically completely useless.

In a meta where early game bullies don't fall off late game...this shit need to be removed or nerfed.

64 Comments

CalabokNov 9, 20166 votes

that is what it's there for

The DeckownerNov 9, 201629 votes

yah, but there is really no counterplay or strategy to that.

ADCsBabysítterNov 9, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:17:37.422+0000)

yah, but there is really no counterplay or strategy to that.

Theres easy counter play. Clear out the Scryer blooms before farming your side of the jg. thats all you have to do

The DeckownerNov 9, 201620 votes

it spawns randomly...and spawn time is global...

ADCsBabysítterNov 9, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:21:12.089+0000)

it spawns randomly...and spawn time is global...

Yeah, so check the river before you start farming. Ward the entrances you your jg... you know, everything you should have been doing to begin with.

The DeckownerNov 9, 20166 votes

Ok? So this plant is spawning in 10 seconds, I guess you will just need to wait 10 seconds and kill the plant while we come hunt you down because we know your red is spawning?

ADCsBabysítterNov 9, 20164 votes

No, you ward your red, go gank a lane or farm elsewhere. if the enemy is coming to take it, you will know and you can steal it, or kill them or Steal their buff. you coul even ask one of your laners to help you. Have you never dealt with counter jungling before? this is basic stuff.

The DeckownerNov 9, 20168 votes

Scryer bloom reveals wards, the invader knows if you have vision.

What you are saying is: -no tank jungler is playable because you get outdueled -no late game jungler is playable because you get outdueled -no support jungler is playable because you get outdueled -no weak laner is playable because they get shoved and can't help defend invaders -Can't do camps because you got invaded

which basically says if you don't play lee sin or someshit you are fucked.

Mig89Nov 10, 20162 votes

You have a team tho...

ADCsBabysítterNov 10, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:48:51.696+0000)

Scryer bloom reveals wards, the invader knows if you have vision.

What you are saying is: -no tank jungler is playable because you get outdueled -no late game jungler is playable because you get outdueled -no support jungler is playable because you get outdueled -no weak laner is playable because they get shoved and can't help defend invaders -Can't do camps because you got invaded

which basically says if you don't play lee sin or someshit you are fucked.

If you ward your lane then it doesnt matter if they know you have vison. you can still see them and avoid it. I dont understand whats there to not get...

The DeckownerNov 10, 20162 votes

so you avoid them and lose control over your jungle, great counterplay for a random spawning plant hum.

LeBlanc JameśNov 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:48:51.696+0000)

Scryer bloom reveals wards, the invader knows if you have vision.

What you are saying is: -no tank jungler is playable because you get outdueled -no late game jungler is playable because you get outdueled -no support jungler is playable because you get outdueled -no weak laner is playable because they get shoved and can't help defend invaders -Can't do camps because you got invaded

which basically says if you don't play lee sin or someshit you are fucked.

LEESIN IS LIFE!!! (If I played jungle, which I don't)

Skia AsteriNov 10, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:21:12.089+0000)

it spawns randomly...and spawn time is global...

And takes at least 6 minutes to respawn. That is longer than the cooldown of summoner 4 .

The DeckownerNov 10, 201620 votes

Scryer's Bloom SIGHT BEYOND SIGHT When destroyed, releases vision-granting pollen in a large cone that flies in the direction the attacker was facing, revealing units and wards for 12 seconds (3 seconds on champions) AIM THERE Scryer’s Bloom displays a self-only range indicator to champions on mouse-over, showing which direction the pollen will fly SPAWN POINTS Scryer’s Bloom can spawn in two spots per jungle quadrant, close to river ramps FIRST SPAWN 3:00 - 3:30, always at each quadrant’s spawn point nearest to the side lanes NEXT-SPAWN TIME 5 - 6.5 minutes at either spawn point, starting once a given quadrant’s Scryer’s Bloom is destroyed NO TWO BLOOMS Only one Scryer’s Bloom can be present per quadrant

your math teacher cries every time.

Skia AsteriNov 10, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-11-10T02:23:48.491+0000)

your math teacher cries every time.

NEXT-SPAWN TIME 5 - 6.5 minutes at either spawn point, starting once a given quadrant’s Scryer’s Bloom is destroyed

NURTURE Plants spawn as inactive seeds and take 60 seconds to become usable. Each seed type has a unique appearance.

5 + 1 = 6 minutes minimum to get another scryer's bloom in a quadrant.

The DeckownerNov 10, 201615 votes

...............

**FIRST SPAWN **3:00 - 3:30 **NEXT-SPAWN **TIME 5 - 6.5 minutes at either spawn point

Your English Teacher is crying too now.

Wh1teWu1fNov 10, 20163 votes

NURTURE Plants spawn as inactive seeds and take 60 seconds to become usable. Each seed type has a unique appearance.

he's talking about this point, so after the initial use of it, 5-6.5 minutes later it will spawn again, but as an inactive seed which will take another minute before you can use it, in which case it effectively takes 6-7.5 minutes before you can use it again.

Obviously the very first spawn will be early on, but his point of it taking at least 6 minutes to respawn is correct.

The DeckownerNov 10, 20163 votes

very sure the rito post meant it spawns at the 5th ~ 6.5th minute instead of it takes 5 ~6.5 minutes to spawn a new one.

Glory ln DeathNov 10, 20164 votes

No, in all of the plant descriptions they listed the initial time it spawns in and then how long until the next one spawns. Also, from in-game experience, it is 5-6 minutes between spawns.

They wouldn't just give you the first two spawn times and no other information.

DecritNov 10, 20169 votes

It does not spawn totally randomly and is telegraphed a minute before spawn

just because your jungler did not adapt to the new jungler at day 2 after release it does not mean the mechanic itself is broken :P

Gosh DarnNov 10, 20161 votes

The counterplay would be to use it so the enemy can't. When I don't need the healing and have a healing support such as Soraka so I don't have to worry about bot lane, i smash open the fruit just so the enemy can't have it.

The DeckownerNov 10, 20167 votes

the problem is the plants spawn time is kinda random and it really isn't big enough of an objective to waste your time waiting for it just to destroy it.

And the fact that the best way of using these plants by both team is to destroy them so they don't get used...really shows how gimmicky and pointless the design is.

Sans HamaNov 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:17:37.422+0000)

yah, but there is really no counterplay or strategy to that.

get to the plant first lol

theArtifactsNov 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:17:37.422+0000)

yah, but there is really no counterplay or strategy to that.

If you're in the enemy jungle taking their farm all game should the enemy jungle not be in your jungle taking your farm?

The DeckownerNov 10, 20161 votes

after getting wards down in the enemy jungle(which you should), when the enemy jungler goes toward your jungle you should see it and keep farming their jungle after killing the jungler.

theArtifactsNov 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=0000000000040000,timestamp=2016-11-10T15:48:22.432+0000)

after getting wards down in the enemy jungle(which you should), when the enemy jungler goes toward your jungle you should see it and keep farming their jungle after killing the jungler.

So there IS a counter play/strategy then.

The DeckownerNov 10, 20161 votes

This method I said ONLY WORKS when you ALREADY have control of the game, which is what the blue plant helped us get.

theArtifactsNov 10, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=000000000004000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-10T15:56:46.660+0000)

This method I said ONLY WORKS when you ALREADY have control of the game, which is what the blue plant helped us get.

So you can't get a blue trinket and control ward to get some vision of your jungle / their jungle? You can't anticipate where their jungler might be based on their current patterns? You can't look at the minimap when attempting to get camps and see if any of their lanes move?

Sounds like you're just not used to the changes yet and bitching about the unknown.

The DeckownerNov 10, 20161 votes

Maybe by your logic the jungler with weaker early game should just be Jesus and make the impossible come true? All your wishy washy doesn't really stand when I have practiced the usage of this plant, and it worked ridiculously well.

theArtifactsNov 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiBZlRHd,comment-id=00000000000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-10T16:36:12.988+0000)

Maybe by your logic the jungler with weaker early game should just be Jesus and make the impossible come true? All your wishy washy doesn't really stand when I have practiced the usage of this plant, and it worked ridiculously well.

To use the plant in your jungle the enemy has to get to it correct? So place a control ward in the river. Let your team know he's been invading and when you see him ping it. Have your team collapse. Takes care of the problem.

To be clear I'm arguing against your statement that "there is no counter play". One you yourself have admitted is false.

five oh tree Nov 9, 20166 votes

... what were his teammates doing while this happened? he should have an inherent advantage in his own jungle because his teammates are closer to him than yours are to you.

The DeckownerNov 9, 20161 votes

we shoved in their lane because we have stronger laning champions, so we can easily move into the jungle while our minions are constantly at enemy tower.

ZepperNov 10, 201612 votes

So you were overall dominated the enemy team, doesn't sound like it was just the blue plant.

The DeckownerNov 10, 20167 votes

we weren't really winning lane, we were just shoving better with aoe abilities and better roaming because we picked assassin champions. my jungler doesn't really dominate 1v1 against enemy jungle, if not the plant we wouldn't be moving into the enemy jungle so quickly and they would be just 1v1ing.

LXIINov 10, 20166 votes

I keep seeing this attributed to the plant, but you could do the exact same thing without it. Sure, you might have to look for a second or two longer to find them, but that's literally the only difference.

The DeckownerNov 10, 20162 votes

Being able to see enemy jungler and wards in the enemy jungle provides so much safety and knowledge to you and your team, you are honestly underestimating its impact.

BardfulNov 10, 20163 votes

Ward deep when you see the enemy jungler somewhere on the map.

LatetotheRaceNov 10, 20162 votes

I would if wards were a thing I could have. item 3361

LXIINov 10, 20161 votes

I agree that it is impactful, but wards would do the same thing. Or even having no vision at all but just being strong enough to face check would provide a similar outcome.

The DeckownerNov 10, 20163 votes

It's all about the risk vs reward.

Walking into a dark jungle to ward? high risk medium reward.

Autoattacking a plant to gain free vision? no risk high reward.

Automated RivenNov 10, 20162 votes

Warding the enemy jungle with your midlane while the lane is shoved minimal risk high reward. the same thing could have been accomplished just as easilly before the plant.

LXIINov 11, 20161 votes

The reward is literally the same in both scenarios, you can't just call it medium reward because there's more risk in attaining it.

But I do see your point, it's just not anything new. If you're going into their jungle with a few team members you're gonna ward, and if the enemy is there you're likely gonna kill them. At least the plants also give them a warning that you're coming (something I haven't seen mentioned yet).

Specter027Nov 10, 20166 votes

Scryer is incredibly strong. Was vs. a Teemo Top as Jungle, Scryer showed me every Shroom and where Teemo was cloaked in River. And as the bloom was on my side of the jungle up a ramp that wasn't his territory, there was nothing he could do to stop my reveal.

Personally, I hate the new jungle - especially changes to Red Side (More Chickens. I rarely had Mid take my Chickens, now every Mid thinks Chickens are his in addition to Blue. And Krugs doing Michael Keaton from Multiplicity impression). The plants all feel more like derpy gimmicks than contributions to great gameplay.

RainbowIceeNov 10, 20161 votes

I havent tried it but on paper these jungle changes seem bad. If im thinking im playing the game for fun this seems more stressful to deal wirh and keep up with than an extra fun mechanic to try new things.

JorenciceNov 10, 20161 votes

Chickens have always been mids in higher level play.

KingnewgameplusNov 10, 20161 votes

Udyr Can't take chickens if they aren't there.

BellowsNov 10, 20164 votes

I miss Wolves Ward so much, IDK about anyone else, but sometimes I felt like I was the only junlger that made sure to smite wolves if we were getting shoved in on.

The DeckownerNov 10, 20163 votes

I always smite wolve or raptor after mid game for the vision.

sigh, rip jungle.

TheMinezNov 10, 20161 votes

Have you tried item 3147 on Quinn jungle?

Lethality Quinn can burst a Leblanc

tophitNov 10, 20161 votes

A simple fix should be removing the Scryer plant's ability to detect basic wards, which doesn't make too much sense.

OR,

give the enemy jungler a way of knowing when he's been spotted by the plants effect, so the team invading know where the jungler was and where wards are placed, but the team being invaded can place new wards and mobilize for a counter attack.