still hasnt been adressed after a whole year. makes you pay 450 gold for stats that you dont actually get until you have farmed 6 minion waves (30 minions).
what is the point of the farm requirement on the item, when it doesnt end up significantly more cost efficient than its stats worth in gold, like 
or 
, but merely ends up giving you the stats you should have been getting from the start?
why cant it just give an extra 
worth in health, upon paying for it?
Slythion44 votes
Critmaster Garen39 votesohmwrecker is just so nieche that its basically never used. the item itself is actually stat efficient.
jaurims is just entirely terrible. youre literally losing gold upon combining the item without getting anything in return. and then you have to put in additinal efford just to get back what you already payed for.
Slythion1 votes[deleted]
Critmaster Garen12 votesjust curious about how it is so stat inefficient, it gives 15 ad and 150 hp on purchase for the same price as dblade's 8ad, 75 hp, and 3% lifesteal
imo that's pretty equal, especially knowing that you'll get more stats over time (up to another 150hp) and that the item builds into other items as well
it doesnt give 150 hp and 15 ad on purchase.
it gives 5 ad on purchase for 450 gold. but all combined items are slightly more stat efficient that its components. except for jaurims, which makes you pay gold and then farm minions, just to get your gold back.
the 150 hp and 15 ad just carry over from its components, that you already payed for?
Slythion1 votes[deleted]
Critmaster Garen3 votesWe're comparing it to other items, not it's "step up" from it's components.
Compared to DBlade, the stats from Fist are actually pretty decent considering how they are the same price. Especially given it's scaling value and how it builds into other items, unlike DBlade.
Sure, it may not be an amazing improvement on immediate value if you've already gotten it's compenent items, but you also aren't paying a lot and you have scaling values. It's hardly a gold sinkhole
we are comparing it to items like 
do you have to buy the components for a zeal, and then pay 600 gold in combine cost to get 3% attack speed and have to farm up the 10% crit chance to make it actually return its cost in stats?
no, you get straight up 3% attack speed, 10% crit chance and 5% movement speed for 600 gold over its components.
youre right. is not a "step up" from its components. its literally a step down.
the item actually is a sinkhole for your gold, that doesnt even pay off by turing positive in gold effectiveness like other farm items do. it merely returns its own value after 30 minions, but until then its worth less than you payed for.
RogueWill2 votes
isn't on the same boat? it basically is to prevent it to become another Brutalizer, whee you get it early and then sell it since the item was only efficient on his advance item state.
Critmaster Garen2 votes
youre only putting yourself 165 gold behind when buying seekers armguard, but farm it up to two 
= 600 extra gold worth in armor.
so while it starts gold inefficient, the fully farmed item becomes very gold efficient.
meanwhile jaurims fist puts you about 400 gold behind, and the fully farmed item just puts you back to 0.
Wimbledofy12 votesin what parallel universe are jaurims fist and doran's blade the same price?
AninLegions7771 votesWho needs Ohmwrecker when towers already deal 0 damage?
Ravenhale13 votesHmm... well Fist builds into Hydra (450 health), Mallet (700 health) and Steraks (400 health).
A fully stacked Fist is worth 300 Health. Sterak's has no additional health component, so you get 100 Health for completing it. Mallet has a 380 Health Belt, so it only picks up a meager 20 Health. Titanic has 150 Health from Ruby, so it gains nothing at all.
I think the easiest solution would be to drop the cost of Fist to 900 Gold. In essence, make it very similar to Seeker's, which only requires 165 gold to complete that wonky item.
Edit: I forgot about the 5 AD bonus. 1000 Gold sound better?
Critmaster Garen7 votesHmm... well Fist builds into Hydra (450 health), Mallet (700 health) and Steraks (400 health).
A fully stacked Fist is worth 300 Health. Sterak's has no additional health component, so you get 100 Health for completing it. Mallet has a 380 Health Belt, so it only picks up a meager 20 Health. Titanic has 150 Health from Ruby, so it gains nothing at all.
I think the easiest solution would be to drop the cost of Fist to 900 Gold. In essence, make it very similar to Seeker's, which only requires 165 gold to complete that wonky item.
Edit: I forgot about the 5 AD bonus. 1000 Gold sound better?
how about just entirely removing the farm requirement?
yea, the item wouldnt have some special passive. it would just grant a boring combination of its base stats worth in gold. but its supposed to be just a component item anyways.
why not make it 1200 gold for 300 health and 15 ad directly upon purchase?
Ravenhale9 votesBut that doesn't make the item better. Reducing the cost makes it gold efficient and valuable. An extra 200 gold could be used to pink ward or be enough extra gold to pick up boots or cloth armor.
Removing the stacking mechanism makes it gold neutral. It's not a bad suggestion, considering the present state of Fist is gold negative till you can get 30 minions.
Oglaf7 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QcYzpYNX,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-30T17:56:16.268+0000)
still hasnt been adressed after a whole year. makes you pay 450 gold for stats that you dont actually get until you have farmed 6 minion waves (30 minions).
what is the point of the farm requirement on the item, when it doesnt end up significantly more cost efficient than its stats worth in gold, like
why cant it just give an extra
Not to mention, you don't buy it for it's own sake: you buy it because it is needed for another item such as Sterak's.
Which means you'll have upgrade it long before the bonus even becomes relevant.
6Sfool6 votesAgreed, it should be about even when you buy it but very gold efficient once farmed. I also think the value of the item should scale with how many stacks you have. If you buy it and don't farm it, it should cost more to upgrade than if you did farm it, kind of like the new poacher's dirk.
I think they should keep the stats the same, cut the combine cost to 150, and have the passive stacks increase its value by about 15g to make it worthwile to buy early and cut down on combine costs.
Troll for Trump5 votes
AD Counter my a$$
rtbf761092712 votesall this stupid item does is gut your damage, conceding all of your mid lane roam and gank power
Bradley Dragon4 votesmaybe because the item's scaling is irelavent since it maxes itself out upon combining it?
Critmaster Garen18 votes[{quoted}](name=Bradley Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QcYzpYNX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-30T18:03:47.227+0000)
maybe because the item's scaling is irelavent since it maxes itself out upon combining it?
its not irrelevant. its an immediate loss in gold, that doesnt pay off. since most of the items it combines into have really high combine costs, youre usually forced to sit a while on the item.
while youre puring 450 gold into absolutely nothing, your opponent can get for the same price and get an immediate advantage over you.
Sire Hippington4 votesI never really paid much attentio to how gold efficient it is, yet i never bought it, i always used the other components of the items and then finished it. I knew it was bad, yet i'm somewhat supprised it's THAT bad. Prettymuch shows how much they care for Fighters....
Theorchero4 votesEh it's why you don't buy that part first.
But also. It's paid. fucking paid. not "payed."
TwinkiePro4 votes Same thing.
Gosh Darn3 votesThe boards are so fickle. This is another thread where I said the exact same thing and got flooded by a wave of downvotes while someone else's thread gets upvotes. Of course I agree. Armguard stacks to be super efficient. This stacks to be just as efficient as other items that you immediately get the stats with. It needs a lower price or higher stats from stacks. Right now it's known as the item you try to avoid like the plague and do your best to go straight from the other components into the full item without being forced to buy it.
WoonStruck3 votes
is a strong contender.
Zacster2 votesA Riot employee should really look at this.
TyrekGoldenspear2 votesWait you mean I have to farm it up to max before buying 
or else I won't get the full benefits?
I've been doing it wrong this whole time.
Turbanator13373 votesWhen you buy or
you still get the full benefit, even when you don't farm
What OP is saying is that you pay 1200 gold for , which gives garbage stats. To put this into perspective, gives you 150 health (which you can stack up to total 300 health) and 15 AD for 1200 gold. 
gives you 380 health for 1000 gold.
So you get less than half as much health than you would if you bought , which is actually cheaper, and when you finally finish stacking (which, if you stay in lane AND get perfect cs, takes about 3 minutes), you still have less health than
TyrekGoldenspear1 votesOh i get it now thanks.
GigaPube2 voteswhats the point of anything? why cant tear give us 1000 mana straight away? why cant we get a free sightstone when we play support so we dont have to buy it ourselves? why cant more roles take tp to increase the chances of snowballing? why do bad things happen to good people? why did you really make this post though? why is a bundle of cost and inventory-slot efficient stats the worst item in the game?
Bisaknosp2 votes
Dabrick012 votes
HectonD1 votesAvarice Blade: the worst of worst items ever
Critmaster Garen15 votesAvarice Blade: the worst of worst items ever
a) its not in the game anymore.
b) that is not correct. avarice blade was gold ineffecient upon purchase. when you sat long enough on the item it eventually returned more gold than it costed.
jaurims fist even fully farmed is only worth what you originally payed for.
Off Meta Evan1 votes idk fam, at least fist builds into shit that's actually worth while. there is literally no reason to go shield over 
or cloth pots.
Critmaster Garen3 votes
look, i wont deny that there are other bad items.
but there is absolutely no item that is as gold inefficient as jaurims without growing in stats to become incredibly gold efficent later. i dont even know if there even is an item that has that much negative gold value upon completion over its components.
like i said. all those other bad items. you dont even need to pick them up. the fact that youre basically forced to buy jaurims (or skip it) regularly to get to the items you actually want, makes it even worse.
a bad item that you never have to buy is just that. a bad item, that affects a lot of your games is arguably worse.
Off Meta Evan1 votesi mean it only builds into 3 items. if it was something as basic as like where it builds into a million items, i'd agree with you but i personally don't think its THAT big a deal.
Critmaster Garen2 votesi mean it only builds into 3 items. if it was something as basic as like
it depends on which champion you play, doesnt it?
the items it builds into are 
for some champions these are core items, or items that they want to build in many of their games. steraks is an item that id love to pick up more often, if they wouldnt have fucked around with it so much. the terrible build path with jaurims in there just makes it worse.
Tychusfindlay9191 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QcYzpYNX,comment-id=000a000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-30T21:34:40.027+0000)
it depends on which champion you play, doesnt it?
the items it builds into are
for some champions these are core items, or items that they want to build in many of their games. steraks is an item that id love to pick up more often, if they wouldnt have fucked around with it so much. the terrible build path with jaurims in there just makes it worse.
With the exception of FM, those items suck dick anyways
Critmaster Garen1 votesWith the exception of FM, those items suck dick anyways
well, maybe they wouldnt suck dick if they were improved? how about we start by making the build pathes not absolute garbage, by including an uneccessary gold sink of a component item?
Tychusfindlay9191 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QcYzpYNX,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-01T15:11:40.788+0000)
well, maybe they wouldnt suck dick if they were improved? how about we start by making the build pathes not absolute garbage, by including an uneccessary gold sink of a component item?
That's a good start, but I'm talking about the finished items themselves, independent of their paths.
They suck absolute balls.
WinTheWarOnPants1 votesthought this was gonna be about an item that actually has real problems.... 
rtbf761092715 votes are built all the time
Gnart Even Close1 votesIf the idea was to make the gold efficiency more comparable to Seeker's Armguard, something like lowering the cost to 1100 gold would be fine. It'd be a nice buff without pushing it over the edge. It would increase the original gold efficiency to 84% from the current 77% and max gold efficiency to 120% from 110%.
Tychusfindlay9192 votes[{quoted}](name=Gnart Even Close,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QcYzpYNX,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2016-12-01T13:07:25.026+0000)
If the idea was to make the gold efficiency more comparable to Seeker's Armguard, something like lowering the cost to 1100 gold would be fine. It'd be a nice buff without pushing it over the edge. It would increase the original gold efficiency to 84% from the current 77% and max gold efficiency to 120% from 110%.
No no no no no no no
I dont want shit watered with costs, I actually want good shit that I can buy as a juggernaut.
Gnart Even Close1 votesit's a component item, it gets upgraded lol. buffing the stat efficiency early is actually a really good buff. 100 gold cheaper is an extra 2 potions or a control ward early, which is more impactful than you would realize. the upgrade cost goes up a bit, but you're paying for stats when you get them instead of before.
