Riot says the tank rework will decrease damage and increase tankiness

TotalJerk·Feb 18, 2017·3 votes·1,774 views

https://i.imgur.com/MnppJkU.jpg

Have fun watching tanks and supports "duel" each other for 30 seconds until someone else shows up.

37 Comments

Critmaster GarenFeb 19, 201712 votes

here is what i have to say about "wet noodle fights"

fuck you.

because the only people who complain about this are those who are watching esports. people who actually PLAY this game ive rarely ever seen complain about farm lanes.

god forbid tanks are actually tanky and lanes are decided by roam plays, wave manipulation and out csing your opponent than constant slaughter fests.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 19, 20172 votes

I play and farm lanes are bad for the game unless you have some way to make them more interesting

Critmaster GarenFeb 19, 20176 votes

{quoted}

I play and farm lanes are bad for the game unless you have some way to make them more interesting

winning by outfarming your opponent has always been a part of this game.

at least unless youre in a total shit meta thats only about people gangbanging each other with early game carries for the first 10 minutes and one team steamrolling the enemy before 20 minutes like we have now.

people who dont have the attention span to try and actually outlane their opponents and complain that the first 15 minutes are too "boring" are part of the reason why this game feels terrible right now. and most of those people are part of the esports crowd.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 19, 20171 votes

I should mention though that Morello himself is or was part of said e-sports crowd.

Yes, farming early is significant and can be fun. But you can also make it so that farming phase takes 2 hours. You can do anything, but what is practical and what is fun. Yes, the esports crowd wants action but they also have money and a very heavy opinion that makes up a large chunk of this community. League is the fastest paced f2p moba on the market and should take advantage of this. 15 minutes is forever in league.

Winning by outfarming has always been a part of this game but that doesn't mean it cant be done better. There was a time when laning phase could last up to 60 minutes in pro games and it was a complete snoozefest.

Critmaster GarenFeb 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I should mention though that Morello himself is or was part of said e-sports crowd.

Yes, farming early is significant and can be fun. But you can also make it so that farming phase takes 2 hours. You can do anything, but what is practical and what is fun. Yes, the esports crowd wants action but they also have money and a very heavy opinion that makes up a large chunk of this community. League is the fastest paced f2p moba on the market and should take advantage of this. 15 minutes is forever in league.

Winning by outfarming has always been a part of this game but that doesn't mean it cant be done better. There was a time when laning phase could last up to 60 minutes in pro games and it was a complete snoozefest.

i have a feeling, people who are complaining about 15 minutes lane phases have never played in season 1 or season 2, when that phase usually ended at 20 to 25 minutes, with a hand full of kills (sometimes none) to that point.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 19, 20171 votes

Even if we assume that's true that says something about how healthy for the game that actually is. Maybe they just showed up late or maybe they just didn't get the exposure needed to get those players until later because the game was such a snoozefest.

In any case, the designers saw a reason to change this and I doubt it was just as simple as #BIGLCSPLAYS at the expense of the vast majority of players

Critmaster GarenFeb 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Even if we assume that's true that says something about how healthy for the game that actually is. Maybe they just showed up late or maybe they just didn't get the exposure needed to get those players until later because the game was such a snoozefest.

In any case, the designers saw a reason to change this and I doubt it was just as simple as #BIGLCSPLAYS at the expense of the vast majority of players

it is true. and they really started to shorten game times and made the game overall more fast paced and focused on large killing sprees when league came into the spotlight as an esport.

most of their decisions about game pacing and game times were really formed around that the game was boring to watch, instead of how it felt for the players at the time.

i cant remember anyone actually complaining about game times and game pacing back then.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 19, 20171 votes

There were plenty of people complaining. They were just drowned out by stupid shit.

OMG AP YI OP but muh laning phase DARIUS OPOPOPOP hey guys the laning phases Y NASUS SO BROKEN WAHHHH laning... FIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ OMG I KNOW RIGHT LEBLINK TOO AP YI lane ABILITY POWER TRISTANA THO EVERYTHING IS OP

somewhere in there theres also like 5 pro players giving a full analysis of why attack speed will always be the most broken stat no matter what but that one is drowned out even more.

Automated RivenFeb 20, 20171 votes

considering that the amount of games which have ever lasted longer then 60 minutes are very rare in the lcs your last comment is just bullshit. there has never been a pro game where laning phase lasted 60 minutes

MaeDoSanFeb 19, 20175 votes

Atleast its more relaxing and you can shove and push a little against the enemy Other matchups are so intense they suddenly jump on you and start beating your ass , taking half your health in a single trade and your like , fck just lost all pressure in lane

Critmaster GarenFeb 19, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Atleast its more relaxing and you can shove and push a little against the enemy Other matchups are so intense they suddenly jump on you and start beating your ass , taking half your health in a single trade and your like , fck just lost all pressure in lane

i feel like right now being able to manipulate minion waves in your lane and simply being able to win a lane by out csing your opponent has lost most of its value.

the strategic aspects of laning are just that much overshadowed by snowballing off kills right now.

not to mention that lane phases themselves have become a lot shorter which gives you less time to get a headstart in cs over your opponent rather than off kills.

MaeDoSanFeb 19, 20171 votes

Ekko top using his shit q to farm the whole wave while you wait at a distance for the minions to come to you , then you clear them all and send it back to him and that's all laning is during early-mid game

WoonStruckFeb 19, 20171 votes

That's more of an issue with Ekko.

Ekko's safe waveclear is bullshit.

It borders Ziggs, Xerath, Vel, and Anivia in the lack of interactive laning experiences.

TotalJerkFeb 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QbA0sGkz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-19T00:01:37.163+0000)

people who actually PLAY this game ive rarely ever seen complain about farm lanes.

Isn't that exactly why people hate Nasus and Cho'gath?

Critmaster GarenFeb 19, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Isn't that exactly why people hate Nasus and Cho'gath?

people hate nasus because they dont have a clue how to manipulate minion waves to their advantage, and how to actually beat him.

they think theyre winning lane by playing like push bots to make him lose cs under his turret, instead of freezing lane on their side of the map and putting him into the worst spot possible.

its true that he might like lose 10 cs over the course of 10 minutes. but that doesnt mean shit, when he can just sit there in comfort and still get every single stack on his q that he can get.

the truth is, if your opponent isnt terrible, he will barely lose any cs while farming under the turret. that doesnt just go for nasus. and all youre doing is putting yourself into a vulnerable spot to ganks.

youre not supposed to push your lane, unless the enemy is out of lane and will lose that minion wave youre pushing in, youre setting yourself up for a roam play, or the lane is already pushing by itself and you want to bounce it off the enemies turret.

RalanrFeb 19, 20172 votes

Honestly I'll be a bit pissed if Sion loses his damage output.

TotalJerkFeb 19, 20171 votes

He's already a total bitch to kill, if they make him even tankier while sucking out his damage he will be SOOO fucking boring.

VoidStaresBackFeb 20, 20171 votes

They've already stated they like where Sion is and aren't going to touch him directly. The only changes he'll be seeing are the changes in tank itemization.

RalanrFeb 20, 20171 votes

They'll probably touch his base stats like all tanks though.

Dasdi96Feb 19, 20177 votes

To be honest I love tank wet noodle slap fights. It is an ancient tradition among top laners to have 3 minute fights and both still have half hp.

AlienPrimateFeb 20, 20171 votes

The funniest one ever was Galio vs Maokai both with full MR builds. After a couple minutes of fighting we both literally still had full hp. Whoever ran out of mana first would have lost that fight if it wasn't interrupted by teammates.

Big LincolnFeb 19, 20177 votes

yeah you're right it'll be a total wet noodle fight because Fiora only Darius tanks Yasuo get Jax played Renekton top

TotalJerkFeb 19, 20171 votes

I'm talking about tank vs tank lanes.

AlienPrimateFeb 20, 20171 votes

I think tank vs tank lanes are the funnest ones. If you make one mistake you don't die and fights actually involve planning rather than just bang and dead. You have to plan out how much mana you want to use and when your cooldowns are back up with each engage. With 2 damage dealers fighting, cooldowns and mana mean nothing because after a single engage one of them is dead.

Automated RivenFeb 20, 20171 votes

that only works until about 20 minutes in the game and after that you just heal each other.

TotalJerkFeb 20, 20171 votes

Or one of the tanks just decides they don't wanna fight anymore and just walks away. Leaving the other with wasted mana. When neither person in lane has any kill pressure and can't make damage stick that basically means they aren't going to interact with one another at all because it's just a waste of cooldowns/mana.

Tychusfindlay919Feb 19, 20175 votes

thank fucking god. Watching everyone one shot each other is fucking obnoxious.

TotalJerkFeb 19, 20171 votes

They don't have to oneshot, I'm not talking about one shotters. but if they don't at least do SOME damage, then top lane will turn into 0/0/0 until the jungler comes or everybody groups. There are a few abuse cases, but you can't sit here and tell me the likes of Shen, Sejuani, and Skarner are doing too much damage.

Tychusfindlay919Feb 19, 20175 votes

{quoted}

They don't have to oneshot, I'm not talking about one shotters. but if they don't at least do SOME damage, then top lane will turn into 0/0/0 until the jungler comes or everybody groups. There are a few abuse cases, but you can't sit here and tell me the likes of Shen, Sejuani, and Skarner are doing too much damage.

When you see tanks, you see juggernauts and certain skirmishers who can handle tanks by dealing consistent dps while having the tools to prolong fights.

There will still be deaths, but it won't be stupid 1 second smash fests.

TotalJerkFeb 19, 20171 votes

I'm specifically talking about tank vs tank fights. The problem isn't even that tanks are doing too much damage. It's the fact that masteries are too strong and that damage items are providing too much tankiness. If they are going to make pure tanks do even less damage and be even harder to kill, then that means when two tanks encounter eachother they just wont interact at all because it's a waste of time. Some people actually want to lane and not AFK farm for 15 minutes.

If we enter a tank meta where tanks can't kill anything at all and can't be killed, that just means you're gonna get a lot of 40+ minute games where people would rather rotate constantly than skirmish.

MordepoolFeb 19, 20174 votes

Archer didn't say that Malory did. And yes I'd rather have noodle fights in top Lane because I don't care about eSports. That shit ruins balance every year

CrazyBear1987Feb 19, 20173 votes

Not if we follow Riots Support List Karma Zyra Malzahar

WoonStruckFeb 19, 20172 votes

Have fun playing a game where everyone doesn't one-shot each other and late game champions are actually usable.

FTFY.

You can thank me later.

TotalJerkFeb 20, 20171 votes

Why the fuck do you people always think in false dichotomies? It doesn't have to be one or the other.

AhristocatsFeb 19, 20171 votes

Nice

DisulfiramFeb 19, 20171 votes

Honestly, I kinda miss those wet noodles fights.

I still remember that one Malphite vs Rammus duel in ARAM... both survived the teamfight, and kept slapping each other until well after both teams respawned.

Good times.

AnagsFeb 20, 20171 votes

If tanks do too little damage they won't be played top lane. They will be forced to jungle or support so that they can cc for an actual carry/damage champ.