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Stupid Jungler Mentality

DonnieDarkin··2 votes·731 views

"Its not my job to gank losing lanes"

"You should be able to handle your own lane"

Now, on my real accounts, this isn't much of an issue as I rarely need help in lane.

However, last game there was Cho mid and an enemy Syndra. Syndra was getting fed early and I could tell that the Cho wasn't bad, he was just having a hard time.

Now the Jungler says its his job to get other lanes fed, to gank winning lanes.

Okay lets roll with that. Basically you are saying "I am totally okay to let their mid get fed and hopefully whichever lane I help will be stronger than whatever happens over there at mid, and of course, run the high risk of losing first turret blood as well"

This is fucking stupid. Shut down the fed champions, get the gold, and prevent a super snowballing champion from carrying the game. If the lane is fucked that early its unlikely you are going to somehow counter it by getting another lane some kills.

This idea that flat out a junlgers role does not include helping losing lanes is shortsighted.

11 Comments

dolphinosplash246 votes

In most cases it is very risky to gank a losing lane as it could help the enemy more than you. Syndra has 3 AoE spells a stun and a hugh single target burst. Unless your jungler has follow up CC on top of Cho's knock-up and silence, she more than likely would have gotten a double kill

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

In most cases it is very risky to gank a losing lane as it could help the enemy more than you. Syndra has 3 AoE spells a stun and a hugh single target burst. Unless your jungler has follow up CC on top of Cho's knock-up and silence, she more than likely would have gotten a double kill

Depending on the jungler, as I said, Cho's knock up + silence is plenty for a Khazix, Rengar, or Graves to kill Syndra.

Shadòw5 votes

it's the right mentality.

helping even/winning lanes to snowball is usually the best idea.

the losing lane just needs to play safe. when Syndra is easily getting fed than the Cho is bad. playing safe and counterbuilding isn't that hard.

DonnieDarkin1 votes

That would be great but he kept dying. Syndra would just kill him under turret.

Aptest2 votes

There is no single answer here.

Sometimes it's better to sit on the winning enemy lane until it stops winning. other times it's better to snowball your winning lane, or clear up that person's schedule so he can roam.

If you're a squishy champion like a mr yi or an eve, you should not be ganking people that can just blow you away, unless you can reasonably expect hard CC from your laner. So maybe if you are an eve, you kinda need to bring that maokai from top lane with you to gank. And in that case what you'll do is sit on maokai's opponent until the top tower crumbles, and then Maokai can gank the syndra.

I can see it working the other way around too.

There's really no point in speaking in theory here. If the chogath can hit his spells on the syndra whenever he really wants she's a free kill every time she goes past the middle of the river if the jungler comes, simply on the back of the CC chain. Since she's fed, we can safely assume this is not the case, though.

xXRaichopXx2 votes

I don't think you understand how jungling works...

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

Due to the match up ganking mid woulda been an easy kill if Cho hits his knock up, because he can chain it with his silence to give his jungler at least 2 seconds of free damage.

That being said, Syndra can't get super fed if Cho plays well and stops dying (goes tankier), so that shouldn't be a problem.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

If you lose your lane before the jungler can gank your lane, you're ungankable. No reason to give the already fed enemy a double or triple kill, when you could, instead, secure one or two kills for a winnable lane.

Unless you're Nasus, Veigar, or Kindred, your carrying capabilities will almost never be worth more than 3-4 others. And if you're someone that falls off, such as Kat, the jungler has very little incentive to save you.

Now, this isn't always true. If the jungler can actually save your lane (either you're only down a couple of kills, or your jungler's super-fed), then s/he should gank. But it still needs to be salvageable, or it's pointless.

freeloader251 votes

Depends on the enemy champion. A fed syndra will always kill at least one of you two if you gank her for example. A fed darius? fiora? camille? draven? just to list a few champions i dont gank when they already are fed because i know exactly they will just delete us 1v2 or 2v3.

For your example: if cho doesnt build negatron and doesnt farm with his q and doesnt wait until he can survive syndra before going close to her: do i actually trust him to come back when i gank and trade kills at the best scenario (dont forget about counterganking etc, a losing lane is most likely not able to deepward for example)? no. no i dont.

lets take a look at the worst case: i gank a losing lane (lets say midlane), we have no vision of their jungler. we get counterganked and the enemies kill our laner and the jungler (me) without losing a lot of hp. now the enemy midlaner is not 2 levels ahead but 3 and takes fb turret with their jungler (the turret is likely low already when my laner died a lot). now their laner is 2.5k gold ahead instead of 1k (fb turret, kill gold and farm that my laner missed). Because the turret already was kinda low and didnt take a lot of hits to fall they group with their botlane which could push without consequences because i died and take drake or botlane turret aswell. this is the worst case ofc, but its not that unlikely to happen if you think about how far ahead the enemy laner already is.

So what do i do? i search for ways to get fed myself, go for easy turrets and kills in other lanes and start grouping and enable the other lanes to roam. instead of killing myself on their midlaner i gank botlane for example and kill the adc and force the support back. even if my midlaner died again, we can contest fb turret or take drake and generate an advantage because our midlaner isnt worth anything anymore. and again, this scenario is not unlikely to happen.

What does have a higher rate of success even if we dont consider the worst case scenario? you can find the answer yourself. I dont play to make you feel comfortable or useful, i play to win the game.

Kilanost1 votes

You obviously don't jungle. I can tell because you haven't pointed out the inherent risk of ganking a fed lane which is giving Syndra 2 more kills and a free turret. and drag pressure/dominance. If your jungler ganks other lanes, he has a better chance to get that turret first blood. Once that turret is taken, that lane can rotate mid and pressure the mid lane syndra to help out the cho. While they're walking mid, they can pick up drag if its bot lane.

Additionally, your jungler likely had a very low amount of confidence that a mid lane chogath could carry especially once he was that behind. Yet another reason not to gank that lane, even if its going even.

In a game with a mid lane chogath, I'm going to gank for the team's dps aka the bot lane. Thats because cho's damage is going to be shitty and inconsistent compared to other mid laners and so we're going to need a fed adc to make up for it.

DonnieDarkin1 votes

No, see, I dont consider an enemy in lane that has 2 or 3 early kills to be fed. Its very easy to take down a champion that is ahead in lane with a good gank. Its only the people who cant play out in their mind a path to success that get scared off. Letting a lane sink is the same thing as resigning to the fact that that enemy laner is going to be super fed. Without you intervening, its inventiable that your ally is going to just keep feeding. So you have to ask yourself if what you do for other lanes is really going to be out weigh what is happening in the feeding lane.

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