It would be nice if Shaco had some actual counterplay

Cloud273·Jul 27, 2016·1 votes·1,068 views

You can dodge a Lee Sin 'q', Elise coccoon, Rengar bola, etc. But you can't dodge a single part of Shaco's kit. It would be nice if shaco had more depth to his kit instead of "point and click shiv". And then he escapes really easily because his stealth has a really short cooldown. And if you somehow manage to catch him he still has his boxes to prevent you from chasing. I'm so sick of these assassins who burst you and then have get out of jail free cards (Leblanc, Zed, etc). Nerf this bullsh*t please.

35 Comments

colesyJul 27, 20168 votes

i guess being countered by 75g is just too much for people to comprehend

ArakadiaJul 27, 20161 votes

What do you mean, only supports ward.

Kappa.

statelesskillerAug 3, 20161 votes

now i want you to ward everywhere on the map at the same time. because thats what it takes. you cant pink every single area of the map.

Grift98Jul 27, 20166 votes

He does have counterplay but most people don't understand what it is. He is heavily reliant on decieve ganks (where he goes invisible to fight you) so he can get his extra damage from his passive (more damage when your back is to him). He normally goes into bushes to do this so 1 pink in one bush and a trinket ward in the other normally prevents him from doing this. also, he tends to build full damage which makes him squishy so just focus him when he does gank you and you should either get him to back off or get a kill on him which will put him super far behind.

I understand the struggle though. Hope Shaco doesn't ruin anymore games for you

VerxintJul 27, 20162 votes

Shaco has plenty of counterplay, but it's strategic. By the time the Shaco appears, if you don't have a plan, you're already dead.

AstôlfoJul 27, 20161 votes

Well that's your fault. Also that's not always true.

VerxintJul 27, 20161 votes

Well thats my point. If he shows up and kills you and you felt like you couldn't do anything, the mistake you made was before Shaco showed up.

AstôlfoJul 27, 20161 votes

Oh okay, I thought you were criticizing that aspect of him.

VerxintJul 28, 20162 votes

No, I think strategic counterplay is more interesting anyway. I'm tired of people whining "omg no counterplay" because they make a macro mistake and get punished for it.

Great OzymandiusAug 2, 20161 votes

I agree so much. What makes Shaco fun to play is outsmarting the enemy. You can mash your keyboards only so much before it gets boring.

Cloud273Aug 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No, I think strategic counterplay is more interesting anyway. I'm tired of people whining "omg no counterplay" because they make a macro mistake and get punished for it.

Sorry I disagree. There's a reason other assassins like Kha'Zix, Rengar, Elise, etc are balanced (even if they're overtuned sometimes). You can dodge their cc, which makes it a lot harder for them to burst you. But if you get hit by their cc you're in for a world of hurt. With Shaco you can't avoid his shiv, since it's point and click, but he also has his stealth traps, which makes it even more impossible to escape him. It's the same reason Teemo is cancer. Point and click cc, and stealth traps. When will you finally admit that this is unhealthy design?

Great OzymandiusAug 2, 20161 votes

Bingo. Shaco is an extremely high skillcap champion. But he's mechanically quite easy (except for some clone micro). What makes him difficult is the decision making. It's the same thing for counterplay. You need to make good decisions to beat a shaco. If you are smart, Shaco can do nothing to you. He doesn't have stupid invulnerability like fizz or crazy gap-closing like leblanc or ridiculous scalings like talon. He succeeds by outsmarting you. If you want to win because you are good with your combos and you don't understand the game then you are screwed.

Cloud273Aug 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Ozymandius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QTF2fA5f,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2016-08-02T00:24:55.099+0000)

Bingo. Shaco is an extremely high skillcap champion. But he's mechanically quite easy (except for some clone micro). What makes him difficult is the decision making. It's the same thing for counterplay. You need to make good decisions to beat a shaco. If you are smart, Shaco can do nothing to you. He doesn't have stupid invulnerability like fizz or crazy gap-closing like leblanc or ridiculous scalings like talon. He succeeds by outsmarting you. If you want to win because you are good with your combos and you don't understand the game then you are screwed.

Pretty sure he's untargetable when he uses deceive (just like Fizz and Master Yi). And he can jump over walls with it. So he has a gap closer and untargetability.

Great OzymandiusAug 2, 20161 votes

That's true but shaco's untargettability can be difficult to use b/c there is a slight delay and it is tied to his ult. And yes shaco has a gap-closer (his q). But it's not a BS skill anywhere to the same extent as LB's double dash and return.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 27, 20164 votes

how to counter Shaco ? item 2045 item 3649 item 2049 item 2043 item 3361 item 3362 item 3341 and try Morgana LeeSin Nunu RekSai . basicly vision, vision vision champs that can revile stealth champs or counter jungle champs that are great at invading and stealing camps. or equally strong early junglers who are good at 1 vs 1s and counter ganks.

The AqualiousJul 27, 20163 votes

Gee, A Pink Ward... BOY I'M SURE GLAD I BOUGHT A PINK WARD TO COUNTER THOSE STEALTH CHAMPIONS!!!

says... 1/85 people played with... Because in low elo, people are stupid as fuck

And as A Bronze 4... I can say that

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 27, 20161 votes

well there are different skills in this game, knowledge base and mechanical base. you can have a great skill of knowledge in the game and be bad mechanically and you can be the best mechanical player and have bad knowledge. if your saying low elo is dumb how bout increasing your KNOWLEDGE BASE SKILL. and item 3649 item 2043 item 2049 item 2045 item 3361 item 3362

The AqualiousJul 27, 20161 votes

I do buy wards... And I do ward

And I do understand that their are multiple skill sets... I was making a point, while trying to crack a joke

Wrong place Wrong time I know, but still

People should remember these things

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 27, 20161 votes

but in all honesty if i am jungle and i see Shaco picked and if the team comp allows for it i will insta-lock Nunu . Nunu is a great "control" and "counter" jungler.

if Shaco tries to invade you as a Nunu you have your Q which is a built in summoner 11 and you have as a spell. it would be hard to steal "buffs" from a Nunu and by that same point you can steal buffs/champs as Nunu easily.

also if Shaco trys to fight you as Nunu just throw a snowball in his face and blood boil away spaming laugh , he almost cant kill you. part of the reason he cant kill you is with Nunu Q you can Q a creep/monster and heal as you run. also Nunu ult is an aoe damage ult that will damage stealth champs as well so his stealth dont help him there. he is squishy as hell too so if you get a full ult off it will kill him nearly every time.

Shaco is an all or nothing champ, if he dont get a lead and kills early he falls off so hard late game it is nearly a 4 vs 5. that is why counter jungling/counter ganking is his Achilles heel.

The AqualiousJul 27, 20161 votes

I know the Shaco fail... All too well... My main is either a god or a joke...

L Psy KongrooJul 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I know the Shaco fail... All too well... My main is either a god or a joke...

https://www.searchlock.com/mirror/p?e=1&h=lowyQfjZZbnHUocMIFiE415899dfJJqV8Q4d23CTK7kYxvIC+YNjB7AJuK2m6vZ/sW/vKAyzFBQbQ+VMvEvgkw==&u=http://i.imgur.com/bpNxP1u.png

The AqualiousJul 27, 20161 votes

And... i have been both of those...

:-(

RalanrJul 27, 20161 votes

Honestly the only reason I don't like buying pink wards (two reasons actually) is that I'm never sure on the best place to put them and they take up bag space, which is crucial late game.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 2, 20162 votes

http://na.op.gg/statistics/tier/

this shows a graph indicating the amount of wards bought/placed by rank. people in bronze/silver place the least people diamond and higher have the most.

i know i need to get better about warding and im a so called support main.

L Psy KongrooJul 27, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QTF2fA5f,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-07-27T22:40:34.997+0000)

how to counter ? and try . basicly vision, vision vision champs that can revile stealth champs or counter jungle champs that are great at invading and stealing camps. or equally strong early junglers who are good at 1 vs 1s and counter ganks.

Lee is a skill matchup vs. a good Shaco tbh. There's room for counterplay on both sides.

Rek'sai though.........ugh. If you ever want to seriously fuck with Shaco, Rek'sai is your gal'. Hell, with her around, you don't even NEED to buy pink wards. She's literally a walking pink ward with a larger AOE. Just stick Rek'sai next to your squishies and Shaco can't do shit.

Great OzymandiusAug 2, 20161 votes

Yep. I'll pick shaco into lee. But not into Rek'Sai. She builds tanky, which is bad for shaco, and shaco can't get away, can't sneak up, total pain.

Great OzymandiusAug 2, 20161 votes

You don't even need to counter him explicitly. Take malphite jungle, for example. You will never win 1v1's in the jungle early. But you can ward. If he is counterjunling you, just avoid him, maybe take some of his camps. Then you get tanky, build some armor, and he can't do anything to you. Then you have a potent teamfight and he didn't get ahead b/c he didn't kill you and so he didn't snowball and he's not going to do a good job assassinating your adc.

False 001Jul 27, 20161 votes

Twisted Fate

Mecha MaIphiteJul 27, 20161 votes

Yeah, if only we had a way to see when Shaco was trying to sneak up behind us while he was invisible. Shouldn't be too expensive, maybe like 75g or so.

Cloud273Jul 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, if only we had a way to see when Shaco was trying to sneak up behind us while he was invisible. Shouldn't be too expensive, maybe like 75g or so.

You heard it here folks! All you need is gold! With enough gold you can counter ANYTHING!!!

AstôlfoJul 27, 20161 votes

Not Shaco's fault if you counterplay yourself by not getting any invisibility-seers (pinks for example).

LU Vanilla Rice Jul 28, 20161 votes

#FearThePink

TheLazySunbroJul 28, 20161 votes

You can dodge a Lee Sin 'q', Elise coccoon, Rengar bola, etc.

Its all about predictions with your skills shots vs assassins, its what I do with Thresh usually just predict and then end up hooking them

The Bearded BardAug 2, 20161 votes

OH MY GOD THIS IS THE MOST UNEDUCATED POST I'VE EVER SEEN.

For the record, if you're chasing Shaco you're doing it wrong, but if you must do it, do it with a red trinket, that way you'll know where he is and disable his boxes.

Second off, what do you mean a get out of jail free card?????? Did he just walk up to you without Q, kill you without Q, then Q away? That shit has an 11 second cooldown at all ranks, and that's AFTER THE STEALTH ENDS.

The counterplay to Shaco is to be good at the game. Like that's all there is to it. Get a red trinket, buy a few pink wards, predict what he's doing. Easy win.

Filthy RankAug 3, 20161 votes

katarina has no skillshot too haha, for shaco it's easy to counter him, in lane phase take red trinket or place a pink ward and don't stay too low in lane , don't let him get fed, in teamfight phase make sure someon has a red trinket and stay together, when he gets out of stealth he has no escape , since most shaco players don't take flash ;)