Riot: We don't want to enforce playstyles/metas

General Esdeath ··38 votes·1,731 views

Also Riot: Tries to make Mordekaiser an adc and tries to make top laners stop taking summoner 12

90 Comments

Marshbouy5 votes

If i remember correctly they stopped making mordekaiser ADC a long time ago. The TP nerfs were needed because dude, you would literally see tp on the mid and top almost 24/7 in LCS. That is not ok.

(btw they are talking about forcing you to go one specific route on a champion)

General Esdeath 2 votes

They tried to force it and kept his dragon ult because they "have hope" for it. And LCS =/= League of Legends like we play. It's so much more coordinated it's not even funny. So that TP gut was not needed. WHAT WAS NEEDED was not letting you tp to wards or making a longer CD if the target isn't a turret.

Marshbouy1 votes

That TP gut? lol what? which one?

not letting you tp to wards

how 2 gut teleport

General Esdeath 2 votes

The point of TP should be for farm heavy champs to get back to lane, according to Riot. So that would make it how they want.

Elikain2 votes

They kept TP CD consistent for both wards, turrets and minions. Making CD shorter for turrets and longer for wards but base CD for minions is one hell of a way to create massive confusion and possible hysteria on what's actual CD for TP.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

Even the jungler's were starting to take TP along with Smite before the nerf.

Marshbouy1 votes

exactly.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Well atleast it was interesting to watch. Instead of that stale 30mins farmfest until the first fight for baron. TP ganks and goon squad 24/7 was a highlight in every game

Mandang02 votes

Pretty irrelevant point in a discussion of whether the meta's enforced.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Pretty irrelevant comment considering the op of the post i answered specifically mentioned LCS. So maybe learn to read before you make yourself look like a dumbass. And it is not irrelevant also considering riots latest patches and also the patches before try to open up the LCS to get rid of a stale meta so indeed trying to enforce a meta switch and trying to enforce a more fast paced playstyle. So try to be an irrelevant human being elsewhere.

Mandang01 votes

Wow, you're really just making yourself look bad.

It doesn't matter whether OP is referring to LCS or bronze, the matter is one of ENFORCING A META. Interesting metas can be enforced just as well as uninteresting ones.

Mysticman895 votes

They haven't enforced any playstyles/metas in that you're free to play off-meta without fear of being banned.

When metas/playstyles evolve such that there's only one viable option, then by doing nothing, they're essentially 'enforcing' it in the sense you're using the word by leaving it be. They tweak things with patches so that at least in theory, there are multiple viable options. (In mordes case they wanted an option that wasn't a marksman for the duo lane, and in TP's case they wanted ignite to be more viable, for both mids and tops.)

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

{quoted}

They haven't enforced any playstyles/metas in that you're free to play off-meta without fear of being banned.

When metas/playstyles evolve such that there's only one viable option, then by doing nothing, they're essentially 'enforcing' it in the sense you're using the word by leaving it be. They tweak things with patches so that at least in theory, there are multiple viable options. (In mordes case they wanted an option that wasn't a marksman for the duo lane, and in TP's case they wanted ignite to be more viable, for both mids and tops.)

cant be banned for playing off meta

if you are trolling/ feeding / being toxic / ect then you can be ban.

i play off meta all the time never been bannned

Troll for Trump1 votes

Playing proxy singed is really risky though imo

Elikain1 votes

It isn't risky at all. He dies a lot but he farms a lot too. Farms in places where he shouldn't be in, like the enemy base and draws creep aggro from other lane minions and if you want to deal with him, after some point he isn't worth any gold and one person won't be able to stop him. So essentially, he's a disruptive champion that pulls multiple people's attention to stop him from doing what he's doing and always trades his own life (still retains his farm and gold) for his team having to practically take objectives non-contested.

I am happy that Singed is out of the meta as proxy playstyle is generally unhealthy for League imho.

crippler381 votes

when I play singed and have 3 people chasing me for 30 seconds in their own base nobody does anything and it makes me cri, especially when they flame me for doing it q.q

Troll for Trump1 votes

YEah, but people flame and qq about it. Lower elos, players don't know how to play with it. Higher elos, players punish you for it

General Esdeath 10 votes

I didn't say you would get banned, but by making one summoner spell much worse, you're making the others more meta. TP didn't need a gutting, it needed a nerf for a longer channel when going to anything that's not a tower.

Mysticman892 votes

Well yeah, they never said they wouldn't do anything that would cause the meta to change (and indeed they may well have said thing to the effect of they want the meta to constantly be shifting so things don't get stale). People can continue to use TP if they wish, and hence they're not enforcing a non-TP meta.

It's just the nature of the game that riot will do things that can be viewed as trying to enforce particular meta/playstyles. If a particular kind of playstyle/meta becomes popular, and Riot does nothing, it can seem like they're enforcing that playstyle by not buffing alternatives (or nerfing that style). If they do something, then it seems like they're enforcing a different playstyle. It's not that riot is actively trying to make for a certain meta/playstyle, it's just a constant balancing act that's never really done, and metas shift in response to that.

General Esdeath 2 votes

They've said they don't want to force meta/playstyle

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

it will be done once they make ashe, garen, ryze, warwick, and soraka the only playable champions and then they remove masteries, runes, and the item shop and add the ability to no-scope into the game and a wwII theme.

Elikain1 votes

TP needed to be nerfed and both nerfs were justified. In case you forgot, bot lane was completely trashed and forbidden to make any sort of plays because it ran the risk of instantly having 4 enemies in it. 5 if there was a mid laner with a TP, which was also common at the time, with a TF.

TP isn't gutted at all. But now it's a summoner spell that doesn't give you any benefits outside of a strategic importance that it's meant for. Imagine if Flash gave you a 25% CDR refund if you killed your target within 2 seconds of using it. Picture every summoner spell with some sort of a boon outside of their effect, and you get the picture why it was a problem. Once you optimize your playstyle around that boon, it becomes a problem. And it was the only summoner's with such a boon, after the removal of boot enchantments.

General Esdeath 1 votes

As I've said in other comments, let us tp to towers for a shorter cd and make it a longer channel with a longer CD for non-towers.

Elikain1 votes

Again, that's the issue i've discussed is here. 2 different CDs based on what you're TPing to. Some champions have built in mobility to get back to lane quickly, TP isn't designed to make every champion circumvent the fact they're slow.

Again with my point - imagine if Heal gets a 25% CDR off is you kill a target in a short time after using it. That'd be considered broken. Imagine any summoner spell getting a 25% refund for using it properly and getting away with a kill. That'd be insane.

Dolasaur1 votes

Do you remember why Riot removed the shorter duration on teleporting to towers, and why they added it in the first place?

They added it in the first place (patch 4.4) in order to make Teleport a viable option. At the time, it had an extremely low pick rate, and Riot wanted to increase the variety in top lane. It's not that they thought everyone should stop taking Ignite; they wanted people to stop feeling forced into taking Ignite.

They later removed the CD reduction on teleporting to towers (lowered in 4.10, removed in 5.22) because they felt it was stifling early game aggression, allowing mid/late game scaling champions to entirely avoid their intended weakness of a poor early game. (Almost identical reason to why they removed the ability to start 10 health potions.) Your suggestion from other posts of increasing channel time to non-towers in order to create power budget to allow lower cooldown for teleporting to towers doesn't address this point.

Allowing an entire class of champions to circumvent their intended weakness seems like a good reason to remove power from a summoner spell to me. Not doing so would enforce a meta where early game champions have no place.

General Esdeath 1 votes

I think the CD reduction could work because of how items are now you need to farm. Can't get item 3010 and just chill until you level.

Ace Access 1 votes

but you will get flamed by sheep for going off meta

Blue Moon Wolf4 votes

Tries to reenforce the "Supports are the only ones who should worry about warding" mentality , forces jungers to take summoner 11, makes Skarner into a jungle only champ, get's rid of the useful support mechanic from Shen's Q for one that pushes him into the top lane role more.

You know, sometimes I do feel like they are trying to open up gameplay to be more unique (like the introduction of Bard as a "roaming support" and item 3748 as a Juggernaut friendlier version of item 3074), then they do other things that feel like two steps back for unique gameplay/playstyles. I just don't know sometimes...

Jungle Lux God2 votes

Forcing junglers to take smite is only reinforcing the statements that jungle mains have been saying for years. Regardless of whether your champion needs it or not the jungler still needs smite in order to secure objectives for his team and were trolling your team if you didn't have it.

Riot also has stepped away from making supports being the only ones who should worry about warding with changes to gold items, the addition of sightstone, and the warding hard cap that prevents supports from physically playing more than 3 vision wards on the map.

Shen also got a support mechanic on his W in replacement for the mechanic he lost on his Q, and it's so much more interesting than a manaless point-and-click ability.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

Forcing junglers to take smite is only reinforcing the statements that jungle mains have been saying for years.

I think this was one of those highly debated changes for a while. Junglers have settled in very well since most (if not all) of them used summoner 11 anyway, but I do recall some people a bit upset about it becoming mandatory to take it. Might be nice to see if Riot could one day change it so it's not mandatory, but if not, no big deal.

Shen also got a support mechanic on his W in replacement for the mechanic he lost on his Q, and it's so much more interesting than a manaless point-and-click ability.

True, Shen did get a decent support mechanic with his W, but every time I use it at least, it feels like it doesn't do much (I'm not sure as I need to look it up again, but I think it blocks only 3 hits or blocks hits for 3 seconds or something). Before, He had a shield which worked great in combination with his Taunt. I'm not saying he's a bad support, but he was already passed up for support before and his reworked Q makes it harder for him to go Support Shen Compared to Top lane Shen. Of course it's not as big of a gripe as it sounds since Riot already stated that the consider his rework a failure and will work on him again at some point in the future, I just hope that he is gets more Support friendly when they do. I will also say his new Q makes item 3302's passive a lot easier.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

The only people who whine about being forced to take smite are those who either weren't jungle mains or were complaining about being so reliant on having smite to jungle that forgetting it was turning the game into a 4v5.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

Like I said, I think it was mostly just an argument that existed when that change was first implemented, which most changes are when they are that drastic. But in the end, the bonuses proved to be so good that pretty much everyone relaxed on the issue and decided that the change made jungle much healthier. Since then, I haven't heard of anyone wanting it reverted, or that there are any major issues with jungle aside from the occasional "Warrior augment is kind of boring compared to the rest" comment.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

How is trying to make Morde a bot lane carry NOT trying to shake up the meta? How is trying to break the strangehold ADC/Sup bot has had on the meta for so many years them trying to enforce the meta? It was horrible, but it was also the exact opposite of meta enforcement.

Mordepool2 votes

They could have done that with a new champion who didnt have a old Devote playerbase

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

Yes? This isn't about it being a good idea but about whether it was enforcing the meta.

Mordepool1 votes

What i believe mr Boompants is trying to illustrate is: that forcing a unwanted playstyle on a champion and punishing all other established roles that champion fufilled. Is a form of meta enforcement. Regardless if the goal was to break the established lane meta.

Champion meta vs lane meta. Either way Morde got burned

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Any that case anything they try to do to balance the game is meta enforcement which makes complaining about them enforcing the meta pointless since they can't help but do it.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

Also Riot: Tries to make Mordekaiser an adc and tries to make top laners stop taking summoner 12

first of all, just because morde is played bot lane doesnt make him an adc. hes still a bruiser wherever hes played.

second, isnt shoehorning adc (or marksmen) into bot lane for 6 seasons the definition of enforcing the meta? having a duo lane bruiser in the game who can replace the adc on bot lane would be exactly whats breaking the meta.

over time there used to be other combinations, like duo bruiser bot lanes and kill lanes that were able to replace the adc/support lanes. however these teamcomps have quickly been pounded into the ground with the nerf hammer whenever it happened, and riot has been brutally enforcing the adc bot lane meta for years.

so making Mordekaiser a duo lane bruiser would be exactly the opposite of enforcing the meta. it would allow more than a single class of champions to be played bot lane with a support 100% of the games on each side, and a step into a direction where marksmen arent entirely mandatory to every team.

while his rework didnt work out as expected and had its flaws, the attempt itself to break the adc/0cs meta was a good idea.

GULAG 4 U2 votes

Well in the end they could have made it work if they didn't just gave it up :(

The good side is mordekaiser can now be played solo, I hate playing bot in general. It's too hard to coordinate with supports that aren't thresh or leona for me :C

General Esdeath 1 votes

You're confusing adc with marksmen. And you saying they force an adc bot meta only pushes my point further. Riot is hypocritical about this and should force some metas.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

You're confusing adc with marksmen. And you saying they force an adc bot meta only pushes my point further. Riot is hypocritical about this and should force some metas.

no, youre confusing adc with "bot lane"

adc means attack damage carry, and while that can refer to certain melee carries, morde as a hybrid champ/caster who tends to build a mix of ap/ad and doesnt just carry off ad, doesnt quite fall into that category.

either way, its still a break from the meta since morde as a bruiser can replace a marksman on a team, which was otherwise not possible thanks to riot forcing marksmen into every game since season 1 and 2.

DaBaiXiong3 votes

Yeah Mordekaiser should have never been touched. He didn't need a rework. If they wanted a non-adc/supp bot lane they should have made supporting more interesting and fun to play, and intoduced a new champion.

He was the fucking master of metal. But with spellvamp being removed from the game I'm not sure how his old kit would have held up.

Also, I used to main Morde back in the day, but now if I'm in an Aram I'll burn the reroll, or switch with anything.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

I agree, he's been ruined from the rework & from proxy.

Saphixia3 votes

Mordekaiser was not forced into ADC, riot wanted there to change the meta by making a non-ranged ADC. They in no way enforced it, even changing his kit so that it worked in a solo lane.

General Esdeath 2 votes

LOL they made it so he only got passive bonus exp in a duo lane, could only use his W on another champ (support), and gave his ult a dragon part and gave him insane damage to "compensate for his melee range". Only after it failed because he had to be nerfed did they make him a solo laner again.

Legacy Hydralpha3 votes

Riot: Hey, you know how top lane Taric was pretty good? Well, let's make him only have two damage sources!

DraygenBiscuit2 votes

I think riot means they aren't going to ban you for making off meta decisions in game. Judging by their choice in nerfs and such they are totally controlling the meta, I think you just misinterpreted.

Mandang02 votes

People whine nonstop about marksmen being "mandatory", then when Riot goes out of their way to try to make something else viable, you go around and complain that they're forcing the meta? And when every top is taking the same summoner spells, Riot's supposed to just do nothing?

You're not even wrong, you just chose terrible examples - should've pointed to the new tower changes, dragon/rift herald changes, jungle items in general, support items in general, the minion changes from earlier in the year, etc.

Calabok1 votes

OP, speak for yourself. you do not speak for anyone else.

General Esdeath 2 votes

How am I speaking for anyone else? I still take summoner 14 or summoner 12 based on my champ. I'm talking about Riot.

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