So why did you remove Magus again?

ChaosThief·Jun 29, 2015·1 votes·740 views

I just don't understand.

You could have had both of them and changed the color of the gem. You kind of said "we don't want to jungle at all, despite him being one of the older junglers to exist"

23 Comments

JustMyBassCannonJun 29, 20153 votes

The removal of Magus didn't affect Fiddlesticks' jungle very much. He still just sits there, draining mobs and pretty much instagibbing camps with crows.

They removed it because it was a boring stat stick that not many people bothered to use. The few that did don't really rely on it.

SalidfingersJun 29, 20151 votes

the new one is worst then the stat stick

JustMyBassCannonJun 29, 20152 votes

I'm not quite seeing how an AoE Lich Bane is worse for AP junglers, other than mage junglers.

SalidfingersJun 29, 20151 votes

AP ratio on the new jungle item is low and will scale late game when you have items and when you finally have items for it Then its time to sell it for the actual lichbane.

it was better to buy the jungle stick and then lichbane for mid game.

JustMyBassCannonJun 29, 20153 votes

It's less expensive than Lich Bane, deals damage in an AoE, and has mana regen in the jungle. Were you expecting them to give it the same AP ratio as Lich Bane?

SalidfingersJun 29, 20151 votes

the whole point of the lichbane active is when you have a ton of ap while rune gives low ap and low ap ratio on proc

JustMyBassCannonJun 29, 20152 votes

Lich Bane has 40 30 more AP and +0.2 AP scaling. Runeglaive will proc for 87 115 while Lich Bane will proc for 115, assuming 100 base AD (above level 13, that's normal for base AD). Edited for PBE buffs.

For every 100 AP, Runeglaive will gain 30 damage, and Lich Bane will gain 50 damage.

If you manage to hit two targets with Runeglaive, it's guaranteed that you'll deal more total damage than Lich Bane. It's less single-target burst, better for AoE. It has less AP, less mana and no bonus MS, but it has CDR and more damage potential outside of duels.

Lich Bane is good, and so is Runeglaive.

SalidfingersJun 29, 20151 votes

as an assassin goal would be to guarantee 100-0 someone and not leave someone with 50 hp because you couldn't finish him off. wait i got 2 guys low. now if you manage to kill both then more power to you.

It will just makes it harder to snow ball early game and call me old fashion i liked 100-0 someone and then duel/kill the next guy before i go down as an ap assassin.

JustMyBassCannonJun 29, 20153 votes

{quoted}

as an assassin

Okay, I'm going to stop you right there and ask how many AP junglers are burst assassins?

3TWarriorJun 29, 20151 votes

akali, katarina(rare), fiddlesticks(though his burst is more sustained while you can't fight back, especially level 6), twisted fate(who came up with that...)

amumu can benefit from it because his basic attacks lower magic resist

gragas tends to be mana hungry

jax is also mana hungry and has a lot of magic damage to clear the jungles(though honestly he'll be better with the new sated devourer thing)

nidalee is another burst assassin jungler

and those are the burst damage champs (though some qualify more as a sustained burst so idk, like amumu, who can rush in and do tons of damage, then tank under tower)

JustMyBassCannonJun 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

akali,

Never seen one before.

katarina(rare),

Katarina does not jungle. Too low early damage.

fiddlesticks(though his burst is more sustained while you can't fight back, especially level 6), twisted fate(who came up with that...)

Fiddlesticks is not an assassin, and not even really bursty.

amumu can benefit from it because his basic attacks lower magic resist

Still one, Amumu is not an assassin.

gragas tends to be mana hungry

Gragas is not an assassin.

jax is also mana hungry and has a lot of magic damage to clear the jungles(though honestly he'll be better with the new sated devourer thing)

Jax is not an AP assassin, he's a hybrid fighter.

nidalee is another burst assassin jungler

Okay, Nidalee does jungle more often than Kat and Akali, so I'll give you that one.

and those are the burst damage champs (though some qualify more as a sustained burst so idk, like amumu, who can rush in and do tons of damage, then tank under tower)

You missed for what I asked. Burst assassins, as in champions whose core purpose in a team fight is to get in, kill a priority target, and get out.

Fiddlesticks does a metric ton of AoE CC and magic damage in team fights, common to a mage. Amumu is an AoE damaging tank that provides CC and damage soaking for his team. Gragas is also an AoE damaging tank with CC and damage soaking. Jax deals hybrid DPS, not burst, and is not primarily AP-scaled anyway. He can focus AP scaling if he wants, because he's Jax.

Sona PingJun 29, 20152 votes

No, that's the point of taking Lich Bane over other Sheen choices. The point of Runeglaive is to buy it for an item that can increase both your clear and jungle sustain. They are two different items that have two different purposes; you can't compare them like that.

SalidfingersJun 29, 20151 votes

Most ap junglers already have an AOE clear and if they had high ap it would go faster. Ill admit the sustain is nice, but not needed.

Sona PingJun 29, 20151 votes

I'd like to say first that I think it would nice if they kept both enchants. As in, I don't see a problem ATM with it; it's not like someone could buy both of them.

{quoted}

Most ap junglers already have an AOE clear and if they had high ap it would go faster. Ill admit the sustain is nice, but not needed.

But you are crossing the ~~streams~~ points. The AP junglers with AoE abilities for clearing camps (e.g., Amumu Gragas Maokai ) clear well, yes, but is because they have AoE and percent health damage in their kits. The %damage is important as they have a lot of poor AP ratios so the extra AP wouldn't make it much faster. It's a reason those champions most always build tanky and don't stack AP nor usually buy Lich Bane. Conversely, the champions who build Mage, stacking AP, and would benefit from a Lich Bane, they really don't jungle.

I'm glad to continue the conversation, I enjoy discussing things like this. But I took some time and went through every champion on the champion list. I couldn't find any champions who would fit this scenario we are talking about. I tried to find champions who jungle, would take Magus over the others, and would stack AP and would do well with a Lich Bane. Out of all the Champions in the game, the only one who matches those three criteria is Nidalee. I maybe doing a disservice to, like, someone's AP Jungleplank build, but I can only see this one instance of a certain Nidalee build being the only thing that is made worse by replacing Magus with a Sheen-based item.

khorneyJun 29, 20151 votes

itys a cross between lichbane and iceborn

JustMyBassCannonJun 29, 20151 votes

...I noticed, but that doesn't answer my question.

khorneyJun 29, 20151 votes

your defisnilty high how is losing 10% cd and 40 ap not affecting him again

JustMyBassCannonJun 29, 20151 votes

"didn't affect him very much"

Thank you for reading the whole sentence.

NemeBroJun 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The removal of Magus didn't affect Fiddlesticks' jungle very much. He still just sits there, draining mobs and pretty much instagibbing camps with crows.

They removed it because it was a boring stat stick that not many people bothered to use. The few that did don't really rely on it.

That must be why his win rate dropped significantly after the new item did.

JustMyBassCannonJun 29, 20152 votes

Fiddlesticks' win rate is tenuous at all times, shifting whenever a patch farts in his general direction.

SlytherinUmbreonJun 29, 20151 votes

Bruh, don't you read patch notes? They replaced Magus with an item that would heavily restrict the pool of AP Junglers to increase Jungle diversity, Duh. http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/925/494/218.png_large

ChaosThiefJun 29, 20152 votes

That is CLEARLY how it worked out.

http://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F925%2F494%2F218.png_large&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=150

Yordle XayahJun 29, 20151 votes

To make Evelynn meta No really, that's the ONLY reason. To give her a worthwhile item to jungle with.

Whatever else Riot tells you is just PR nonsense. LCS players have been trying to make Eve a thing for months now, and this is Riot's way of saying... "Ok, ok... let's make her a thing"