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This is why I'm Skeptical when "High Elo" tries to suggest tips to climb low elo

Illabethe··7 votes·2,965 views

[img]https://i.imgur.com/kGu35A3.png[/img]

This game pretty much perfectly illustrates why I just laugh when other high elo players suggest that climbing is simply "Pressure."

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3067499609/243999882?tab=overview

I literally level 2'd Kled, then killed Bot, then killed Mid, in the first 4:15 of the game. I gave every lane an absolute lead.

But...... what happened? Entire team didn't exist, even with a massive early lead. Morde traded Kled Jinx inted the game away Bard left Jinx because she was inting the game away Katarina played passive until late game.

If you follow the kill sequence etc on the second link, for about the first 30 minutes of the game, literally every kill position involved ME, and either me killing someone, or someone ksing me (Morde Ulted someone I was about to kill 4 times just to pad his kills)

Don't let the end game stats tell the story here: Jinx ended lane 44 cs and 1/6! Nearly all the kills are either Ults, or late game low HP Passive resets off other people doing the work.

Things I did this game: -Even though loss, best Gold value on both teams -Even though loss, most damage on both teams -By far highest CC -Pressured jungle, lanes, and even engineered a 10+ kill lead.

Why I couldn't win? Every time I even got close to pushing a turret, all 4 my teammates engaged champs they already fed, died again, and forced me to recall.

(Notice we didn't get a SINGLE TURRET?) Look at Morde Damage and CS Look at Morde/Jinx Wards

By about 25 minutes in, I was 14/3/12, and was still kill-potent the rest of the game, to the point I was still soloing them.

Teammates were 3/8 (Morde), 4/7 (Bard) 6/4 (Katarina), and 2/9(Jinx) by that point.

People don't give a crap about winning. They care about punishing teammates who try to carry them.

69 Comments

Meteora7075 votes

what the actual fuck is that build, you wont win every game, especially when playing morg jungle, especially with that build but you can win around 80% of em simply by git gudin

Illabethe4 votes

Did you even bother to look at the damage output?

It's a dueling build.

It outputs damage about 130% as fast as a full AP death cap build and has FAR more pressure.

P.S. As jungle, I have nearly a 70% Win rate with Morg, even at this game count. You believe in metas too much.

Meteora7071 votes

you chose a """"dueling"""" build over burst against a team full of squishies, the build does a lot of what we call "trash damage", especially in the later stages of the game where you're doing damage but not really killing anything.

P.S. As jungle, I have nearly a 70% Win rate with Morg, even at this game count. You believe in metas too much.

I see an exact 50% wr as a jungle morg. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/champions/morgana/na/Illabethe I don't believe in metas too much, I've played a lot of off meta shit that's very good at stomping low elo, what you're doing isn't.

Illabethe1 votes

Because Leona, Kled, and Rhaast are totally "Squishy"

P.S. This account has a 57% Overall Morg score (some top, support, etc)

I suggest you tally my last 2-3 weeks. I haven't played enough recently on this account to see more than 3-4 games.

BigFBear1 votes

You have 58% winrate in your last 18 days on jungle Morg. Still 12% below 70% ;)

Meteora7071 votes

what I linked you took your 32 past jungle morg games and it has a 50% wr, not 70% now is it. the only threat on the enemy team was miss fortune and maybe veigar, I wonder what's more useful, killing the mf in a second or auto attacking her to death for 5 seconds while her ult kills your whole team .... huh ...

Illabethe1 votes

The build kills the MF in 2 seconds, same as an AP build would. Except it doesn't lose the trade with said MF and double death.

You really don't understand what the build is. It actually accelerates the speed of a kill versus an AP build.

Meteora7072 votes

well since your arguments keep getting more and more stupid I'll just wait for a post from your d2 account.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Are your builds always this imaginative though?

I don't know many people who would ever even consider building like that but you obviously made it work. RIP coinflips though, they just happen.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

Did you even bother to look at the damage output?

It's a dueling build.

It outputs damage about 130% as fast as a full AP death cap build and has FAR more pressure.

P.S. As jungle, I have nearly a 70% Win rate with Morg, even at this game count. You believe in metas too much.

with that build AND jgling as morg u deserve to be stuck. shit like that will get you out of bronze, but i can promise you wont get out of silver with it.

Illabethe2 votes

I play it in Diamond II/I......

Peel for my ADC2 votes

WHERES THAT OP.GG THO

Z3Sleeper1 votes

It's not bad if it works and apparently it works.

Meteora7072 votes

well if you consider 50% wr in silver working then I can make ap sivir amazing.

TheUrbanKitsune3 votes

You can't use one game as an 'end all be all' example. Sometimes you get teams that hard int and have no idea what they're doing. keep in mind a lot of those 'high elo players' that you laugh at have been in your position and had to climb out themselves. I placed Bronze 1 my first season, climbed all the way up to Diamond on my own. I've seen every elo in-between.

//And as a sidenote-- I think Morgana jungle is a lot of fun personally, but probably not the best pick ever if you want to seriously climb. And I'm not sure what you're thinking with Karma and Zyra jungle... If you want an AP jungler I'd suggest Evelynn or Nunu (who is very good right now). If you're feeling spicy Elise and Nidalee are decent, but a bit on the more challenging side. If you're set on Zyra/Karma/Morg just stick to mid or support. Trust me, you can still gank/roam and have a huge influence on these champions from the mid or support position.

Illabethe1 votes

Zyra is actually a better jungler than Morg. Almost 0 risk.

You really should try it.

Karma was just an attempt to see how well the current buffs affected her ability to do the job. I got 2 pretty trolly teams, so I'm inclined to believe I should keep her shelved. Clear was fine, but ganks were shallow, and not received by laners. It took people at this elo about 4.3 seconds to respond to a fully W rooted target on ganks. That's how bad it is down here.

P.S. I'm Diamond II right now (was I). This is merely my smurf, and the point is that even smurfing, it's hard to apply pressure enough to 1v5. It's near impossible for a similar elo player to apply that pressure.

P.S. Nidalee isn't challenging at all. Elise generally is because of button sequence. In Season 7 I was 68% with Nidalee in Diamond IV. I'm a little rusty with her right now, but even if I pick her up, I can pull 20+ kill games. Might not result in 20/1, but can definitely get the kills.

TheUrbanKitsune1 votes

Not really keen on Zyra jungle, but I may try it sometime as you have my curiosity piqued. Advice for ability order/jungle path? Morgana jungle was just a fun pick I tried a couple times in norms. Would never dare take that into solo queue.

As for the other comments-- No offense but I have a pretty difficult time believing that someone with 529 games in silver with a 50% winrate complaining about teammates when playing Morgana jungle is a diamond 2 smurf. Your account is also a pretty high level for a smurf account, I think mines like level 50 right now? What's the op.gg of your main? If you don't mind my asking. Your opinions and posts generally seem pretty well informed and thought out, so I'm not totally convinced you aren't smurfing, and I'd love to take your word for it, but a lot of the evidence (including refusing to provide account names) does point to you lying for credibility.

And no, Nidalee isn't all that challenging. I was working off the basis of you being a hardstuck silver 4 player, to whom Nidalee may be challenging. Elise is def a little bit harder but same idea.

2Charmnot2Charm2 votes

There is nothing wrong with the advise you were given, the champ you picked to jungle has zero pressure once any of these happen.

  1. No flash.

  2. Minions/tanks blocking Q

  3. Depending on bad teammates.

Don't know what you expected to happen when you picked morg jungle.

Meteora7071 votes

morg jungle is actually really good though and can actually carry low elo quite well, the way this guy is playing it is just wrong though.

2Charmnot2Charm2 votes

{quoted}

morg jungle is actually really good though and can actually carry low elo quite well, the way this guy is playing it is just wrong though.

I only had a morg jungle on my team in plat like 3 times, but i agree it isn't bad.

I just think if he had 17 kills on any of these junglers instead Ekko Evelynn Hecarim Jax Kayn Khazix Kindred MasterYi Nocturne Rengar any game he played would have been easy wins.

These champs can force things to happen easier than Morg with their mobility and don't need to depend on their teammates for much in silver elo.

Even if he had built more damage morg Q is still single target skillshot, W stays in 1 place, and ult requires you to flash in unless the entire enemy team played it really bad.

Meanwhile all the champs I listed (and more I didn't bother to list) can't have most of their damage outplayed, it's nearly guaranteed compared to morg.

Meteora7072 votes

if he built any of the champions you listed like he had a hole in his head (well except for maybe jax) he would still lose. it really ain't about the champion, its plenty easy to carry games as jungle morg in low elo. are yi/kayn/kha/rengar the best low elo stompers? yes. would this game have been won if the op played it better? yes.

Illabethe1 votes

yeah 17/5/17 is totally playing it wrong.

3 lane kill in first 4 minutes is playing it wrong.

Doing more damage than anyone on either team by 30-40% is playing it wrong.

Almost 100 CC instances even though I don't have a Rylai's is playing it wrong (meaning only from Q/R)

Having a Diamond II account where I play the same is "wrong"

BigFBear3 votes

  1. You have 57% winrate on jungle Morg? What's your problem? Maybe you should stop play the champs you have 20-40% winrate on if you wanna climb (Orrn, Karma, Neeko, Yuumi).

  2. One game doesn't say anything. You have a lot of games on Morg with normal KDA. Also: you have won most of the games you had very good KDA. Coinflip happens.

  3. I would recommend to play a real jungler because once you get Plat/Dia+ you will have difficulties with Morg Jungle I could imagine.

Btw. can u post from your Dia 2 Acc? I strongly doubt that you stuck in S4 when you play the same in Dia2.

Meteora7071 votes

morgana is meta in korean highelo, people need to stop acting like she isn't a "real jungler".

Meteora7073 votes

LOoK aT mY kDA!!!!!

drop me a post from the D2 accounts though will ya :^)

Luther King Jr V2 votes

ur pick is so troll tho morgana jng with minimum ap and tanky items even the ap items were questionable

yeah u don't usually win this game if u don't take it even remotely seriously it's a sad sad truth

Illabethe1 votes

If having 370 ish AP and being able to 1v5 is "troll" I don't want to be not troll.

You try to do the same as I do on "your" build :)

Builds adapt to teams.

Luther King Jr V1 votes

why not go with full ap morg shes kinda an ap carry and not a tank

Illabethe1 votes

Full AP is situational and prone to being bursted down. Her Passive as a delicate balance between healing from damage and mitigating that damage. If you can build somewhere in between, you can perpetuate a situation in hard games for Morgana where the damage recieved is only about half, but the heals are still large enough to mitigate that damage.

Full AP also generally doesn't always have enough damage output types to accelerate her W's amplification speed. (This is why my builds do more damage).

Nashors, Thornmail, autos, and Jungle Luden's all amplify how fast her W amplifies. If you build a full AP build, the best you can do is a Nashors/Lich Bane, which generally doesn't fit into a full AP morg build, because other items become more core, like item 3157 item 3089 item 3102 and displace them. And if you just rely on spell damage, the rate of corrosion is just too slow.

You know how long it took me to kill that Kled solo? About 16 seconds to eat both his Ride and Him. I came out of those duels with over 70% HP. He has no options vs a Thornmail. He has plenty of damage/options vs a Morellonomicon. Thornmail also destroys the Kayn. and allows me to duel a fed MF.

I got the SV specifically to survive Veigar duels. Banshee's isn't enough to survive a fed Veigar. You need to be able to heal back part of the damage done so his R becomes insignificant. It also fits into her passive and a potential on hit Gunblade build (which can solo Kayn even when fed).

You need to also realize; her ult generally is NOT made for AP builds. It's made for semi-tank builds. Most Morgs who are pure AP will simply use her ult as a last hit mechanism, not as it's intended as a team fight stun/etc. To properly get off both hits throughout the game, being tankier is generally stronger. And no; Zhonya + Ult is NOT as intended nor does it almost ever work out! People who know what they are doing will always escape a Zhonya ult, and the pressure it adds is usually not NEARLY as much as a strong tankyish build.

Luther King Jr V1 votes

these items give tankiness and ap item 3151 item 3165 item 3116 not sure about her sustain in jungle tho i am assuming it's pretty terrible hence the questionable morgana jungle pick

Illabethe1 votes

HP =/= Tanky by itself, and some teams directly counter HP...... like a Rhaast Kayn..... Also, none of these items have cdr.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

maybe if you used that build on a champion that it would made sense then you would have won or done more. Why build morgana with those items? none of those items fit morgana's playstyle in the slightest

Illabethe2 votes

They really..... really do.... and the fact you try to say that suggests you live in an isolated bubble you're not comfortable leaving.

These builds systematically outdamage meta builds, tank more damage, clear faster, and push objectives harder. If you can't figure out why, I'm not going to explain it to you.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

{quoted}

They really..... really do.... and the fact you try to say that suggests you live in an isolated bubble you're not comfortable leaving.

These builds systematically outdamage meta builds, tank more damage, clear faster, and push objectives harder. If you can't figure out why, I'm not going to explain it to you.

No they don't. Morgana has zero incentive to auto attack so building nashor's is useless. Why bother with gunblade? For the heal? Ok I guess... doesn't she heal from the big monsters though on her own? So why even bother with that? Just get twin shadows/GLP if you want an extra slow in your kit. Then you go and build tank items on a champion that isn't meant to tank a lot and not only that you go cinderhulk... so you are a morgana that forgoes her damage in favor of tanking more hits. I know someone had to be the frontline but morgana isn't the champion for the job. You are building something Diana would love and have way more use for tha a morgana ever will in her entire life.

Illabethe2 votes

Do you not read any of the posts or look up the actual damage (even the damage posted on the thread)?

Morgana as a jungler DOES auto attack. She outanges all skirmishing junglers, and almost all junglers have an attack pattern of "diving." In other words, if Morgana lands a Q, she literally has 2-3 seconds to auto attack her target with impunity. Nashors is an 80 to 120 AP item.... by itself..... that also is one of the cheapest CDR spikes in the game. In 2-3 seconds of Q Root, Morgana can hit 3-4 auto attacks in addition to her kit. Each auto does around 130 damage post mitigation.... What do you think that does to Morgana's W? Oh right; instead of dealing with small high HP ticks, her opponent takes more low HP hits, for closer to 170% increased damage.

Q> W +3-4 autos usually = either someone dead, or someone close to it.

Furthermore, this escalates her CS potential drastically, because it brings the death time of large jungle monsters in line with small jungle monster death times. It gets drakes down in half the time.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ChgpBOt.png[/img]

item 3146 is basically an extra skill's worth of damage to execute..... the heals are not its only use, and the on hit damage is substantial as well. (I don't always build it, but the match had room for it).

You're clueless if you think Morg isn't meant to tank damage. What is her ult again? Oh right...... And, the tank items I bought 1) deal damage 2) apply grievous wounds in a more reliable manner vs this team than does a Morellonomicon. More importantly, I can survive missing a Q. Your builds can't.

I've been playing Morgana since Season 3, and I know what I'm doing.

Peel for my ADC2 votes

Silver 4 players know what they're doing

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Do you not read any of the posts or look up the actual damage (even the damage posted on the thread)?

Morgana as a jungler DOES auto attack. She outanges all skirmishing junglers, and almost all junglers have an attack pattern of "diving." In other words, if Morgana lands a Q, she literally has 2-3 seconds to auto attack her target with impunity. Nashors is an 80 to 120 AP item.... by itself..... that also is one of the cheapest CDR spikes in the game. In 2-3 seconds of Q Root, Morgana can hit 3-4 auto attacks in addition to her kit. Each auto does around 130 damage post mitigation.... What do you think that does to Morgana's W? Oh right; instead of dealing with small high HP ticks, her opponent takes more low HP hits, for closer to 170% increased damage.

Q> W +3-4 autos usually = either someone dead, or someone close to it.

Furthermore, this escalates her CS potential drastically, because it brings the death time of large jungle monsters in line with small jungle monster death times. It gets drakes down in half the time.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ChgpBOt.png[/img]

item 3146 is basically an extra skill's worth of damage to execute..... the heals are not its only use, and the on hit damage is substantial as well. (I don't always build it, but the match had room for it).

You're clueless if you think Morg isn't meant to tank damage. What is her ult again? Oh right...... And, the tank items I bought 1) deal damage 2) apply grievous wounds in a more reliable manner vs this team than does a Morellonomicon. More importantly, I can survive missing a Q. Your builds can't.

I've been playing Morgana since Season 3, and I know what I'm doing.

By the time you finish nashor's or gunblade there would be no point to either item since you should be clearing fast enough nor taking any meaningful damage for either item to be useful. There are like a BILLION way better choices if you want to go a more beefy Morgan than crippling her by building tank items. You know a perfect item for morgana that you decided to skip? Hourglass! You know what else would be great to have? Liandries, banshees, hell even frigging roa would be a better choice.

You can be playing her since the inception of the game and it still won't mean jack. You also want to know something? GLP does damage and slows and is better than gunblade ever will be on morgana. You also want to know something? More AP means you don't even need to stay close to the enemy and auto if you land a Q and place an W on them. You would do just as much damage and not put yourself in danger.

You can try to defend your build all you want but all I see is a build that is better suited to someone like Diana or Sylas than Morgana. You building items that have nothing to do with morgana's playstyle is the reason you lost. You can have all the damage in the world, all the kills. All they had to do was build just a little bit of MR or dodge your Q and you would be left in the dust. When you learn to build properly you will climb the ladder. Keep building like this and you aren't going anywhere.

JackMcCarry1 votes

You cant win every game, you dont reach high elo by having 80% winrate unless you are smurfing. Most have between 50-60% winrate if they truly climb, and that means almost half their games they cant carry.

It's about your determination and how willing you are to put in the time and also learn from yours AND your team mates mistake, if you have a positive winrate and consistantly positive scores, you'll climb, but not every game is winnable no matter the ELO

Illabethe1 votes

For the record I'm Diamond II. Hence why I'm posting my Silver Smurf. I'm saying I can't carry some teams in Silver by applying "Pressure."

I'm not asking for advice. I'm illustrating why the advice is bad.

hrooza dota 2 votes

proof of your diamond 2 existing? no offense but i dont take words for it.

or else i would claim im challanger ...

Illabethe1 votes

Contrary to belief, I don't post to boost my ego or because I want attention. I post to teach/bring up subjects I think are important or more complicated than the light people often give them.

In other words, I don't tell people my high elo accounts. I don't care what people believe :). Yet somehow, every thread becomes about people trolling me about it. Sigh.

hrooza dota 3 votes

i dont care what people belief or whatever, what i want to see is your diamond account proof as you always bring it up to back up your points , if you truly dont want players to always troll you simply post your diamond account.

Peel for my ADC1 votes

@Illabethe I'd fucking love to see tfblade lose more than 5% of his low silver games , and you're claming you can't even win 50%. P.S I'm about to break though grandmaster this is my smurf

P.S.S You don't need my account's op.gg because i don't need to boast or draw attention to myself I prefer to be a big fucking liar instead

P.S.S.S We will be seeing Morgana jungle thornmail in the LCK next week along with my new dogshit movement speed zyra build , be on the lookout for that one

Illabethe1 votes

Why do people who elo-grief keep bringing up someone who literally only plays assassins who have extremely safe kits with high resettability..... There is a vast difference between playing Zed/Jax/Irelia and playing Morgana/Zyra lol.

P.S. My Morgana on this account was 95% 40 games in as Morg. So um.........

Peel for my ADC1 votes

You're missing the point , 50% wr when you claim to be D2. I watched the reply too , you like to go for kills instead of pushing any lanes pressure drakes/rifts/or barons you do so many things wrong and just want to be handed wins because of your sub par KDA

Peel for my ADC1 votes

If I can get 4 accounts to gold 2+ in 50games or less playing only support and i'm only plat 1 , why does it take you 500 just get out of silver 4. Yikes

Illabethe1 votes

You think I play seriously every game? This account is where I play 2 hours after a 12 hour work shift before my brain blacks out for sleep. This account is where I tried Yuumi in the 34% Win rate incarnation. The losses are in Adc/Top, not main roles. Subpar kda? Rarely.

I don't go for kills. I take kills that come to ME. I do generally push objectives. But some games don't allow it in low elo. Some games do not even allow Drakes, because they are not 1 man objectives.

You sure like to troll. but we've already been over why "so many games." 300+" were before Positional ranking was closed. I finished 67% Mid, 65% Jung, 68% Support. My losses were in adc/top (I didn't lose top lane at all; but I did have bot lanes who were feeding so hard that a leading Illaoi couldn't carry. And, I'm just not a good adc).

If I had just played one role, I easily would have been Plat II by the end of positional ranking on this account.

Instead I got stuck with a B I MMR Silver II Rank with an overall 52% win rate and 65%+ in main roles, that made 1 loss in LP = 3 wins.

I don't get how that's hard to understand....... Good luck trying to climb in that situation.

So..... I just started playing casual on this account. When tired. When distracted by my autistic son and OCD wife running through the house. When playing Yuumi.

Peel for my ADC2 votes

Cool story bro tell it again . nothing but god damn exscuse's for everything

BanCount13 votes

"If I had just played one role, I easily would have been Plat II by the end of positional ranking on this account."

Boy you a god damn lie. Just cause you type something on a keyboard doesn't make it true.

Solutate Khaz1 votes

tbh, i wouldn't link main either, nothing to prove to random players

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