Has anyone considered that Garen's improved waveclear has made him too un-interactive?

Yenn·Oct 13, 2019·3 votes·1,994 views

I just had the pleasure of playing Ahri against a Garen in mid lane.

Despite killing him early, I was unable to interact with him in any way after his first buy.

He does the exact same thing on every single wave: he runs directly at me with Q, gets charmed and puts up W to counter it, then quickly clears the wave and backs off. 95% of damage I deal will be healed by the time the next wave has arrived, allowing him to repeat this until I run out of mana.

Any champion that relies on burst damage basically cannot interact with him. I don't think this is healthy champion design; eating your opponent's entire kit intentionally should not be a viable strategy during the laning phase.

20 Comments

MrFawknSunshineOct 13, 20194 votes

ok so nothing has change?

this has always been garens play style. he tries to engage , you cc him he backs off farms and heals

they didnt change anything about this

Ahri BakaOct 13, 20193 votes

{quoted}

ok so nothing has change?

this has always been garens play style. he tries to engage , you cc him he backs off farms and heals

they didnt change anything about this

He is saying Garen's wave clear is much better now which is true

NemeBroOct 13, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Baka,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q5EdvGjE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-10-13T22:37:16.520+0000)

He is saying Garen's wave clear is much better now which is true

Good, because it used to be dogshit and left him with zero options against champions who buttstomped him in lane.

Imagine playing a fucking mage and whining about a melee champion's melee waveclear.

Ahri BakaOct 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Good, because it used to be dogshit and left him with zero options against champions who buttstomped him in lane.

Imagine playing a fucking mage and whining about a melee champion's melee waveclear.

This has nothing to do with me , I'm just explaining OP's point . tell that to him not me lol

NemeBroOct 13, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Baka,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q5EdvGjE,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-13T23:25:53.933+0000)

This has nothing to do with me , I'm just explaining OP's point . tell that to him not me lol

If you're not mewling about a melee champion's waveclear when you can waveclear from hundreds of units away good, I'm glad to hear not every mage player is crying over it. I'm attacking the idea that someone playing a mage would bitch about Garen being able to waveclear in a losing matchup.

Ahri BakaOct 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

If you're not mewling about a melee champion's waveclear when you can waveclear from hundreds of units away good, I'm glad to hear not every mage player is crying over it. I'm attacking the idea that someone playing a mage would bitch about Garen being able to waveclear in a losing matchup.

It's not a losing match up if you read what the OP says , Garen basically eats all the damage but still goes back , heals then wave clears again as if nother happened only for his enemy laner to run out of mana so he just outscale them.

NemeBroOct 14, 20192 votes

[deleted]

Ahri BakaOct 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The OP has been bawling and crying on these boards for literally years, it is all he does. I remember when someone actually went through the trouble of posting some of the "plays" he was whining about and showing how laughably bad he was playing, it was hilarious.

And the Garen mid game that he's whining about?

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3173496364/374094?tab=overview

Despite allegedly "killing him early", the only time this Garen died to Yenn was at almost the very end of the game.

Yenn is a liar and his word is dogshit, and any mod who would delete my post while letting this abortion of a thread where Yenn is provably lying remain open is a joke, to cut any mod who mindlessly deletes posts for being mean off before they do so.

Oh I see, understandable

YennOct 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If you're not mewling about a melee champion's waveclear when you can waveclear from hundreds of units away good, I'm glad to hear not every mage player is crying over it. I'm attacking the idea that someone playing a mage would bitch about Garen being able to waveclear in a losing matchup.

Sorry, I'm confused, in what way is this a 'losing match up?'

Garen can't kill me, but I also quite literally do not have enough damage to kill him before he clears and retreats, and Garen is taking plates because I'm eventually going to run out of mana and have to leave lane.

He comes out of lane with more gold than I do, and you can literally put a toddler in front of the keyboard and replicate this exact strategy perfectly, and it's effective against most champions. I'm stuck in a limbo where there is no way for me to do anything in lane, but I also can't roam or I lose the turret, because he clears so fast and I can't do any lasting damage to him (despite him not building as a tank).

There should be a point where the skill floor is considered too low, and this is it.

MrFawknSunshineOct 13, 20192 votes

well imaging that if you get a lil AS its easier to clear and last hit

but i find its easier to last hit and clear when i play maokai and i take attack speed in my flex runes

YennOct 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

ok so nothing has change?

this has always been garens play style. he tries to engage , you cc him he backs off farms and heals

they didnt change anything about this

Except his wave clear received a significant buff, so he doesn't have to remain in lane long enough to be punished.

MrFawknSunshineOct 13, 20192 votes

how ?

cuz his E now scales with attack speed ?

YennOct 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

how ?

cuz his E now scales with attack speed ?

It doesn't just 'scale with attack speed,' it was buffed in multiple ways.

Prior to the buff, at level 7, it hit 7 times for 26 + 39% AD, or 182 + 273% AD total. With just Stinger, it now hits 10 times for 25 damage + 38% AD, or 250 + 380% AD total. But it also does 25% bonus damage to the closest minion on each tick, making his wave clear even faster.

RagnaveilOct 14, 20191 votes

Wow. Its almost like a mage like Anivia or Vik with Ludens is able to do the same thing, or in anivia's case, be the most uninteractive waveclear mage to deal with period.

NemeBroOct 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

how ?

cuz his E now scales with attack speed ?

Because his E now has eight ticks early game, as opposed to five.

LightswornLanceOct 13, 20193 votes

Damn its almost like juggernauts counter assassins or something, funny how that works. Solution? Get a jungler.

R4ndom F1nnOct 13, 20192 votes

Was toplaning as Galio against him. No matter how many times I combo'ed him, he didn't have to go back to base until he had enough gold for multiple items.