What makes tanks tick? Aggro, they need to be able to draw aggro! let's discuss that.

Spoofghoul··5 votes·471 views

If they dont bring any damage then they are going to need something else to be a threat, right now most of them do not carry that much more cc then other classes except for maybe nautilus he has a bit more then average

They need to be disruptive in some way or they will be ignored, this can be with their base damage so that you cannot ignore them forever. Or double/tripple their cc so you have to deal with them and keep them at bay and perhaps you will be forced to focus them or be stunned all the time

Or perhaps they need more debuffs or aura's They are going to need something to draw ''aggro'' as well as means to say hey do not attack me, like defenses or other ways like debuffs

Right now all they have for aggro is a medium amount of cc at best and the rest is put into other utility and damage, but mostly damage and it isnt even that much, once an adc builds GA your damage is no longer relevant anymore and they can ignore you for half a minute

Reducing their damage further without compensating elsewhere leads to the whole class being unviable

The question is what do the league players want, tripple the cc? tripple the debuffs? a combination of both? Ill tell you now, people are going to hate it, tanks will be more annoying then ever with things like that.

And besides that tanks will still need to have tools to farm or help fight objectives too, just look at the jungle who plays tanks there anymore? their clears take too long to make an impact and their damage/defense is too low to stand up to lee

How can this best be done

well lets take a look at Sion, Very unreliable damage, this way tanks can have damage to farm up and help take neutrals well except for Sion since all his damage is capped vs minions/monsters gj rito gj go fix that man

But you get the idea, fail to outplay the tanks damage get hurt and i think that is fair

AT the same time they need compensation possibly in items they build, more debuffs or cc so they cannot be ignored in fights Sion has an armorshred debuff in his kit for example. But also aura's & actives on items could help with this.

Stronger cc is a good idea too, again sion has this tied up with his unreliable damage, he can stun your entire team for over 4 seconds which means guaranteed victory most of the time if he successfully does so. But all of it is entirely avoidable by sidestepping it.

Tanks are going to need ways to draw aggro to them otherwise they will be ignored, just reducing their damage and increasing their bulk fixes nothing If anything it makes them worse, because they will be harder to take down so why focus them? and worse yet there is no urgency to it since they aren't a threat, and to worsen the situation further, with less damage they will have more trouble laning and jungling. In short the whole class just becomes unviable until the next update!

If their damage is to be reduced it needs to be compensated in a multitude of ways to make them function at all. They will need a way to lane/jungle so more ways of increasing damage vs creeps/monsters/structures They will need more ways of drawing aggro, increased cc and debuffs They will need more utility

I see far too few discussions on this particular topic of aggro and the implications of reducing tank damage output. And looking at the upcoming item changes in the tank update im starting to get scared that Riot isn't paying attention to this particularly important aspect of tanks

But lets discuss it here.

If tanks are to lose damage how should they be compensated to still allow them to be a threat worth dealing with in a fight?

4 Comments

Sire Hippington2 votes

Totally agree, this is not a PvE where the KI has an aggro system that allows tanks to work as just meatshields, it's PvP and the other players need a reason to attack the tank. I thik increasing the CC is not a great idea, unless the overall damage(especially on ranged champs) gets reduced, else meating a tank close to an DD means your dead as they cc you till that mage or adc killed you. So the proper thig would be avoidable damage, either like on sion with dodeble telegraphed skills, though it's imprtant that some of the kit is still rather reliable. Sions E is a very reliable skillshot, and the W is sure to hit unless you focuse him, or like amumus W that is punishing if he's allowed to stay close to you for some time, but does little if you disengage him quickly and avoid him. Both methods allow counterplay to the tank while forceing you to react to them.

However, if they were to loose damage, it wouldn't be to hard to give them bonus damage vs minions and monsters. HotS uses that to give champs waveclear or power in the jungler without overdoing it on the damage vs champs. Imo that's a very overlooked mechanic for allowing low damage champs to compete in the jungle or even just in lane.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

I think Sion's Q is the best example. He stands still, channeling a CC skillshot. This makes him a very tempting target, as everything will hit - he's standing still. Even better, if you ignore him, he gets a massive AoE knock up (and damage). So it both makes it so you want to hit him and also punishes you for ignoring him.

It isn't just CC him in the beginning and ignore him for the rest of the fight either, because of his Q's low cooldown.

Yorukin1 votes

If you take a look through the kits, a LOT of tanks in this game have something to discourage you from ignoring them. Sion's Q makes him a tempting target, and his W really stings if you let him cook it long enough to explode. Amumu, Rammus, and Malphite all have constant AoE damage once they go in, and many other tanks like Zac, Galio, and Sejuani have something they can spam. Heck, Nautilus has both; his shield gives good persistent damage, and his E is on a fairly low cooldown.

That's it in a nutshell. Tanks in MOBAs are (usually) big targets, who have strong utility within their kits, but lack much up-front damage. Ignore them, and they mess you up. Focus them, and the squishies on their team aren't taking any heat. Honestly, I think the biggest problem is just that damage is too high. It's better than it was a couple months back, but focus-fire from a team is enough to bring down a tank very quickly nowadays -- especially if they build strong penetration items. Let's hope the upcoming tank item changes help in that regard.

Spoofghoul1 votes

That is exactly my point

They mostly have damage to draw aggro

Take that away and then what do they have?

You see, if you make them more tanky they will be less attractive targets, if you take away their damage then they have no real way of drawing aggro and combine that with being harder to kill and suddenly everyone will just ignore you. It also makes farming and taking objectives unnecessarily hard for tanks while making them worse in teamfights and thus less rewarding.

If this happens, they need more ways of dealing extra damage to minions/monsters And other ways of presenting themselves as a threat in team fights

If all we do is reduce their damage output and make them more durable they will end up being an unviable class

This is after all a PvP game and most of the players are smart enough not to just focus the tank, unless necessary. This isn't a PvE game where you can magically force the opponent to attack you by insulting it's mom

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