So....what do you do against Lethality Jarvan as an ADC?

VoraciousX·Feb 23, 2018·12 votes·2,401 views

Aside from "don't be anywhere near him", I can't think of anything. Zed, wiggle around so he misses all his shuriken, Kat, don't step on her daggers(her damage WAS DELAYED BECAUSE SHE WAS AN ASSASSIN AND THEY SAID ASSASSINS NEEDED COUNTERPLAY), Leblanc(same as Kat), avoid her skillshots, Khazix, don't be isolated. Lethality Jarvan literally only has to put a cage around you that you can't escape from without flash and deals so much damage you die anyways. Where is his delayed damage?

40 Comments

ViciousSummonerFeb 23, 201814 votes

Step 1: Fall over in the fetal position and cry Step 2: Uninstall Step 3: Resume everyday life knowing you will never be the same again

Professor WardFeb 23, 20187 votes

item 3109 on your support

Stand near your support with

item 3047 on your feet

He is no longer an assasin, but now a squishy support. And is being counterplayed without you or your support doing anything other than playing as normal. So much for counterplay huh?

DeathbypieFeb 23, 20186 votes

That's what supports are for. Jarvan can't do much against a full team. So...don't 1v1 him.

VoraciousXFeb 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

That's what supports are for. Jarvan can't do much against a full team. So...don't 1v1 him.

Every time he ulted me I was either surrounded by my team, or at least had my support. I always died before anyone could react.

{quoted}

Right click him and 2 shot him as a lethality j4 is squishy af?

Kinda hard to do when his ult has a longer range than most of the ADC roster and the exact range of Caitlyn's auto range, especially when you only have 4 auto attacks and a set attack speed. He usually killed more than just me as well, but all he had to do to me was use his ult.

Pierce The VealFeb 23, 20185 votes

Good. It’s nice for ADC to finally have to deal with some bullshit on the same level that they dish out. Even though I myself play some ADC’s, I think it’s bs that they should be able to deal with every fucking thing.

VoraciousXFeb 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Good. It’s nice for ADC to finally have to deal with some bullshit on the same level that they dish out. Even though I myself play some ADC’s, I think it’s bs that they should be able to deal with every fucking thing.

I'm not even an ADC main. I honestly hate how much power ADC players have(Jhin does not fit into that mold though). I'm actually complaining moreso about the fact that assassins had to have delayed burst where someone who literally only has to ult>auto can one shot an ADC. But as much as I hate standard ADCs, I can see that this is kind of an issue. I think it should be pretty obvious from my post history I prefer assassins.

Jarvan is supposed to be a bruiser, but has instant damage and can be played as an assassin, so he can actually assassinate better than pretty much any other assassin I can think of(Practically less than a second burst time). The only one with similar burst I can think of is Rengar.

Pierce The VealFeb 25, 20181 votes

True. That is sad.

I am an ex-assassin main. But I am not going to get rid of a champion’s assassin potential just because he can assassinate better than my champions can. In fact, I’m fine with bruisers being able to assassinate. I just wish ADC’s themselves weren’t basically long ranged burst per second machines.

VoraciousXFeb 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

True. That is sad.

I am an ex-assassin main. But I am not going to get rid of a champion’s assassin potential just because he can assassinate better than my champions can. In fact, I’m fine with bruisers being able to assassinate. I just wish ADC’s themselves weren’t basically long ranged burst per second machines.

Not even saying it needs to be "gotten rid of", but I don't think it should be better than an actual assassin's burst, and I don't he should be able to do what he did to me several times when I didn't have flash. Other assassins had their damage delayed for the same reason as he did to me.

Pierce The VealFeb 27, 20181 votes

Let’s nerf ADC’s and mages first then.

Clearly Jarvan is not the main problem here.

VoraciousXFeb 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Let’s nerf ADC’s and mages first then.

Clearly Jarvan is not the main problem here.

I don't mind nerfs to ADCs(aside from Jhin, because he is completely fair). Mages on the other hand I don't see them as a huge problem. I'm just saying I don't think I should see a Jarvan one shot with his ult and an auto, when a real assassin can't do even close to that with one ability and an auto.

Pierce The VealMar 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I don't mind nerfs to ADCs(aside from Jhin, because he is completely fair). Mages on the other hand I don't see them as a huge problem. I'm just saying I don't think I should see a Jarvan one shot with his ult and an auto, when a real assassin can't do even close to that with one ability and an auto.

Well I completely agree. But what annoys me is people complaing about a full damage build champion instantly killing a 0 defensive item ADC. That’s how assassins came to be shit in the first place.

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 23, 20186 votes

Play or .
Mash R the second you see him step towards you.
Hope to god your team can kill him before your R wears off.

Alternatively, you might be able to get away with it by playing Tristana . Follow the plan as it's written, but replace "Before your R wears off" with "Before he gets back to you".

Other than that? You're fucked. Just try to stay off-screen. Literally don't even get on his screen, otherwise you're dead.

AwhegarkFeb 23, 20184 votes

You dogde the E-Q combo and you literally rape him... He ults on you, you flash from the Cage and you literally rape him again...

Lethality jarvan has no defense, any adc that understands what dogding a skill shot means should destroy him so quickly he will never try going lethality for the rest of his life.

VoraciousXFeb 23, 20184 votes

{quoted}

You dogde the E-Q combo and you literally rape him... He ults on you, you flash from the Cage and you literally rape him again...

Lethality jarvan has no defense, any adc that understands what dogding a skill shot means should destroy him so quickly he will never try going lethality for the rest of his life.

He barely even ever hit his E>Q, he only used it to gapclose to ult me, and then I died instantly.

xelakerFeb 23, 20183 votes

because j4 has a 300 sec cd on his EQ and R lol. the dude wants a bit more than "dodge everything all the time"

VekknaFeb 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You dogde the E-Q combo and you literally rape him... He ults on you, you flash from the Cage and you literally rape him again...

Lethality jarvan has no defense, any adc that understands what dogding a skill shot means should destroy him so quickly he will never try going lethality for the rest of his life.

Yeah, this is just BS. "Lethality" Jarvan really just means Duskblade + Impact Jarvan, who also builds Warrior and some combination of BC, Titanic, and tank/juggernaut items.

And J4's ult is not a skill shot. What you seem to misunderstand is that he's using EQ to gap close and then jump on the adc with R > aa > duskblade > hydra, which also procs electrocute. That's enough to easily nuke an ADC's health bar from 100-0 once J4 has 2-3 items.

InfernapeFeb 23, 20181 votes

His ult isn't a skillshot but the ability itself can be dodged.

VoraciousXFeb 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

His ult isn't a skillshot but the ability itself can be dodged.

Only with flash, and it's on a 300s cooldown whereas his ultimate with no CDR and magical hat is 90.

{quoted}

Good argument Answer: Keep away as best you can,and keep any disengage ready if/ when he does close the gap.

If you picked an immobile carry you’ve been counter picked weather or not he builds full damage.

I wasn't EXACTLY immobile. My auto attacks gave me a lot of movement speed. The issue was that Jarvan was moving like Sonic the Hedgehog, has a dash, and can flash as well. I don't know any ADCs who can survive that, despite being mobile or not.

CloudedLogicFeb 23, 20183 votes

Honestly I have no idea, other than saying play like Ezreal as I believe his blink if timed properly completely negates J4's ult damage whether it goes off or not (Though flash will work the same way). So he blew 3 cool downs to get murdered by you.

HügöFeb 23, 20182 votes

Right click him and 2 shot him as a lethality j4 is squishy af?

Milton FletcherFeb 23, 20182 votes

so.. what do you do against kog/lulu or anything/lulu as a melee?

u can either 1. ban or 2. dodge the game.

wont be seeing any nerfs tho cuz lulu is protected by the balance team regardless of her disgusting state

BobaFlautistFeb 23, 20181 votes

Die.

sutora3Feb 23, 20181 votes

stay in fountain and hope he doesnt fountain dive you

SubdueFeb 23, 20181 votes

What does lethality Jarvan do if your team properly locks him when he does his EQ?

VoraciousXFeb 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

What does lethality Jarvan do if your team properly locks him when he does his EQ?

Well he had a black cleaver, yoummu's, and mobi boots which basically allowed him to run at the speed of light. Aside from that, the black cleaver gave him enough health + his shield(gonna calculate the amount of health his shield gave him, basically he had 2636 effective health to burn through before he could die). Most of the time he would be in chokepoints where I had to be decently close but I couldn't do enough damage to kill him before he died(there was one time where he basically ran from fountain while we were running from their mid inhib), and caught up to me before I could get away, our Khazix was not doing so well, and the rest of our damage was mostly sustained damage(aside from Yasuo but he still needs time to set up his abilities). Our main source of CC was Blitzcrank, and we had a Swain. I think Yasuo was probably the only one who could kill him and he had to build some health to survive him. We won the game, but the fact that I was staring at a gray screen for the second half of the game made it extremely unfun.

SubdueFeb 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Well he had a black cleaver, yoummu's, and mobi boots which basically allowed him to run at the speed of light. Aside from that, the black cleaver gave him enough health + his shield(gonna calculate the amount of health his shield gave him, basically he had 2636 effective health to burn through before he could die). Most of the time he would be in chokepoints where I had to be decently close but I couldn't do enough damage to kill him before he died(there was one time where he basically ran from fountain while we were running from their mid inhib), and caught up to me before I could get away, our Khazix was not doing so well, and the rest of our damage was mostly sustained damage(aside from Yasuo but he still needs time to set up his abilities). Our main source of CC was Blitzcrank, and we had a Swain. I think Yasuo was probably the only one who could kill him and he had to build some health to survive him. We won the game, but the fact that I was staring at a gray screen for the second half of the game made it extremely unfun.

Sounds like a team without any defensively oriented champions and an immobile adc struggled to keep that adc alive against an aggressive assassin. Isn't this what you would expect?

VoraciousXFeb 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Sounds like a team without any defensively oriented champions and an immobile adc struggled to keep that adc alive against an aggressive assassin. Isn't this what you would expect?

Thing is he's more of an assassin than actual assassins, aside from maybe Rengar. Why should this be the case when ACTUAL assassins had to sacrifice delays JUST TO BE assassins? He's meant to be a bruiser, where is his delayed damage?

SubdueFeb 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Thing is he's more of an assassin than actual assassins, aside from maybe Rengar. Why should this be the case when ACTUAL assassins had to sacrifice delays JUST TO BE assassins? He's meant to be a bruiser, where is his delayed damage?

But if he's built like that, he melts pretty quickly. And unlike assassins he doesn't really have an escape if he's used his EQ to close the gap right? How many deaths did he have that game?

VoraciousXFeb 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

But if he's built like that, he melts pretty quickly. And unlike assassins he doesn't really have an escape if he's used his EQ to close the gap right? How many deaths did he have that game?

He was 14/9/12. I was scaling up and got pretty strong in the mid game and then he started assassinating me with just his ult. He could 2 and 3v1. The Yasuo as I recall was the only one able to kill him and he built tanky and was 23/11/9. The Jarvan had 40% CDR(or 45% if he had the rune in the inspiration tree), so his E>Q was on a 6.6(or 6.05 if he had 45%) second cooldown. His ulti would be on a 54 second cooldown if 40%(49.5 if 45% or 45.9 if he had ultimate hat).

{quoted}

But if he's built like that, he melts pretty quickly. And unlike assassins he doesn't really have an escape if he's used his EQ to close the gap right? How many deaths did he have that game?

Katarina, one of the "delayed burst" champions, has to kill someone to get a cooldown reset to get back out after going in, unless she places her daggers perfectly and the enemy just doesn't move(which would move her dagger position) or have mobility to re-engage(because her daggers are only placed slightly behind the enemy, so she'll need minions/allies/plants to get away otherwise) In the time it takes Jarvan to E>Q>R and delete someone, he could auto attack maybe 2 times and E>Q back out with 40% CDR. He also had Yoummus so there's another possibility if he didn't use it to catch up to someone.

jocomotionFeb 23, 20181 votes

Good argument Answer: Keep away as best you can,and keep any disengage ready if/ when he does close the gap.

If you picked an immobile carry you’ve been counter picked weather or not he builds full damage.

GripaAviaraFeb 24, 20181 votes

It's annyoing i give you that. But jarvan without armor melts pretty easy. I suggest going lifesteal comp+taby. Donno really.It's hard, he has a huge burst but he theoretically will struggle vs your team in rest

LordGeovanniFeb 24, 20181 votes

item 3110 its not gonna help but it doesnt help fighters as much as it should either. so as a ranged champion you still in a better spot than a fighter. Dont make penetration and crit so dam powerful people play fighters like fighers and not assassins.

shicky97Feb 24, 20181 votes

Honestly, I have seen ADCs resort to actually building a item 3157 and only using it when J4 tries to ult them. It might look and sound weird, but it can work, especially if he's diving into your team to kill you.

Sire HippingtonFeb 24, 20181 votes

Stay out of his E-Q range, get some armor(usually tabis), stick with your support and it's fine. If he can't connect the Q but ratehr needs it for gapcloseing, he lacks the burst to kill you in time, and his EQ is as avoidable as Zeds shuriken. Also, his E-Q and R are somewhat telegraphed, so you(or rather your team if you are the adc) can land theri CC somewhat easy so you cna kill him. if he goes full lethality, he's pretty darn squishy.

VoraciousXFeb 24, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PzqBTJTB,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-02-24T02:38:06.792+0000)

Stay out of his E-Q range, get some armor(usually tabis), stick with your support and it's fine. If he can't connect the Q but ratehr needs it for gapcloseing, he lacks the burst to kill you in time, and his EQ is as avoidable as Zeds shuriken. Also, his E-Q and R are somewhat telegraphed, so you(or rather your team if you are the adc) can land theri CC somewhat easy so you cna kill him. if he goes full lethality, he's pretty darn squishy.

He built lethality into bruiser, and he did have the burst to kill me without his E>Q. He literally E>Q'd to get in range, R'd me and maybe auto'd me once and I died. Maybe with his 40% CDR he had enough time to Q me again, but I couldn't tell because it happened before I could blink every single time. Problem is his R has a longer range than ADC autos. Meaning I couldn't even be near him.

Sire HippingtonFeb 24, 20181 votes

in that case, he simnply was hella fed and any assasin would also killed you instantly without needing the delayed part of their combo.

With just Ult and AA, and probably hydra, he gets 2.0 total ad+450+1.5 bonus ad damage. at lvl 18, that's 692 damage+3.5 **bonus **ad, and 8% current health from the passive which hits after the 450+1.5 ad from the ult. Then we have the bullshit burst from runes increaseing that to 912+4.0 bonus ad

Jhin at that level has 1985hp. even if J4 had enough lethality for truedamage, which is actually impossible vs the 88base armor from jhin, he'd need ~270 bonus ad from items, which with lethality+bruiser seems pretty unrealistic. Thus he most likely had a solid level and gold lead in order to kill you with just ult.

VoraciousXFeb 24, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PzqBTJTB,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2018-02-24T20:35:11.660+0000)

in that case, he simnply was hella fed and any assasin would also killed you instantly without needing the delayed part of their combo.

With just Ult and AA, and probably hydra, he gets 2.0 total ad+450+1.5 bonus ad damage. at lvl 18, that's 692 damage+3.5 **bonus **ad, and 8% current health from the passive which hits after the 450+1.5 ad from the ult. Then we have the bullshit burst from runes increaseing that to 912+4.0 bonus ad

Jhin at that level has 1985hp. even if J4 had enough lethality for truedamage, which is actually impossible vs the 88base armor from jhin, he'd need ~270 bonus ad from items, which with lethality+bruiser seems pretty unrealistic. Thus he most likely had a solid level and gold lead in order to kill you with just ult.

We ended the game level 15, we were both the same level and he had one item up on me, but no other assassin can use one ability and an auto attack and kill someone from one item up. And yes, he had full lethality, and then started building bruiser. Granted his only bruiser items at that point were one item and a cloth armor(he didn't have hydra btw). He had Warrior/Duskblade/Yoummu's/ Black Cleaver and Mobis. Remember when Galio would build full AP and E>auto an ADC and they'd die? That was basically this. He had 210 AD from items btw. Also did you count in Jarvan's passive?

{quoted}

Build some defence, play a champ with an answer or get killed just like everyone else?

A mage would suffer from the same thing. Anyone who builds no defenses would. Why should you be exempt as an adc who pumps out insane damage?

Why do you people always bring up the same thing? NO OTHER ASSASSIN CAN KILL SOMEONE WITH ONE ABILITY AND AN AUTO AND JHIN IS THE MOST FAIR ADC THERE IS. Yeah, I expect to be one shot when a Zed comes after me as an adc, fed or not, hits his WERQ and lands all three shuriken. Yeah, when a Kat E>W>Q>E>gunblade>Rs me and hits all her daggers, I expect to die. I don't expect to die when someone presses one button and right clicks one time and I die. I'm moreso mad that other assassins are nerfed(sometimes excessively) when they can do the same thing(but this is somehow fairer than when an actual assassin does it somehow) than being all "I'm an ADC I should one shot everything". It's pretty obvious I play mostly assassins. I know what they're supposed to do. Thing is their damage is avoidable without flash and isn't so much that one button press deals almost all of(if not all of) your HP that you cannot escape from.

vgamedudeFeb 24, 20181 votes

Build some defence, play a champ with an answer or get killed just like everyone else?

A mage would suffer from the same thing. Anyone who builds no defenses would. Why should you be exempt as an adc who pumps out insane damage?

Proxy345Mar 1, 20181 votes

item 3046 item 3812

VoraciousXMar 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You have to be able to auto attack the Jarvan before the 12% less damage kicks in from PD(and I had it). Didn't have death's dance though but I dunno if it'd do much good.