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I'm too lazy to take a thorough look at Sylas's heal...

The Highest Noon··2 votes·2,053 views

...so I'm gonna leave it to you guys. I've seen a lot of talk about Sylas's heal, and tbh having been playing him constantly lately I'd like to both agree and disagree.

Instead of holding a lasting opinion, I'd like to point out some things to consider when making the judgement on whether or not it's too strong.

  • His role(s)
  • His stats
  • His ratio type
  • His overall survivability
  • His tools
  • His Shield and it's strength
  • The criteria of the different heal strengths
  • His matchups
  • His meta- items
  • The state of the game
  • What's expected of him

There could be more but I they haven't came to mind yet.

Anywho, whenever someone says that something is strong, they should consider that champion in it's entirety. Overall, this list determines whether or not the power of his heal is necessary.

From what I gather:

  • Sylas is an AP fighter
  • He has a slow and a stun--which also is a pull and a knockup
  • He has a single-proc shield with a 90% AP scaling
  • His heal is 35% - 70% when health is <40%
  • He's fairly weak until he gets the right items (IMO from playing against and as him)
  • AP Fighter items need a look-at

That's just a few things I've thought, but against I'm lazy af lmao just, do what you will with the information, just make sure you consider everything before making a loud, lasting call. IMO he's pretty strong and if not the heal then the shield needs a bit of a nerf--if not both. Maybe drop the Shield at most to 80% and the heal to 30% - 65% scalings BUT have it's improvement threshold increase to 50%.

That's just me, though.

15 Comments

Ralanr3 votes

I’m gonna be honest, when fighting Sylas it feels too strong, but when playing Sylas he feels way too squishy without it.

The dude doesn’t feel like he has the right items or a good rush item to give him the stats he needs, which are primarily AP, health, and CDR. RoA feels too slow, for some reason Hextech doesn’t feel effective as a first back (it’s good for him though) and I’ve only found success with Echo which provides no health.

Imo the dude feels squishy as a fighter. Hell, it feels like I need to build him like an assassin instead.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

Imo the dude feels squishy as a fighter. Hell, it feels like I need to build him like an assassin instead.

And that's why a discussion on it is needed. It's like Diana, who is and has always been a Fighter. Yes, you may want to build health on him, but his worth is going full ap because he has a pretty good shield and heal that scales off ap. It's an easy thought to have that he should build health since he's a fighter, but his worth as a fighter comes not from building sustain but instead from building ap and upscaling his sustaining abilities--those being his heal and his shield.

It's weird.

Phieldworker1 votes

I’ve found success over and over again with roa and iceborn first. Then I go either morello, death cap or liandrys depending how the game is going. I mostly play bruisers so I like that he plays and feels like one. I only have practice rounds and one game with new conqueror but it feels really good as well. I took fleet before the conqueror change. I haven’t used him too much in rank because I want to really get him down but I’m confident in playing him as a ap bruiser.

Frosted Tips2 votes

Meddler has admitted that since Riot has yet to make AP Bruiser itemization viable by adding desperately needed items that Riot has to give AP Bruisers a lot of strength in their abilities.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyvsIp4i,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:12:14.687+0000)

Meddler has admitted that since Riot has yet to make AP Bruiser itemization viable by adding desperately needed items that Riot has to give AP Bruisers a lot of strength in their abilities.

I was just thinking this. Just reiterating what you said,

Because there aren't any AP Fighter items, they give AP Fighters stupid ability scalings to make up for it.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Yup it is that simple and Meddler isn't changing his mind. I think it is pure laziness and lack of understanding. Just like how a bunch of old dated champions no longer fit into the game and are either garbage or stat check everyone. They need to rework these champions, but instead they are releasing new champions.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyvsIp4i,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:50:33.061+0000)

Yup it is that simple and Meddler isn't changing his mind. I think it is pure laziness and lack of understanding. Just like how a bunch of old dated champions no longer fit into the game and are either garbage or stat check everyone. They need to rework these champions, but instead they are releasing new champions.

That's more because of players, though. There's a reason they take surveys asking whether or not we want new champions or more reworks like ten times a year. For the most part, the playerbase in general probably wants more champions and smaller updates. That aside, it takes a lot of consideration and work to rework a champion. I doubt that it's laziness and instead just the amount of effort.

Frosted Tips1 votes

On average the amount of time it takes to create a champion from scratch should be similar to the amount of time it takes to rework a champion. I think it may not be lazy, but it is dumb not to focus primarily on reworks. I would rather see champions that sit in the dust with horrid design become fun iterations of themselves and actually fulfill their fantasy. Examples; Pantheon is one of the most lack luster champions because he has this identity of a Spartan Warrior yet he is just a point a click champion that just pokes it a point a click and then if you engage just one rotation without aiming to trade you. Shyvana is supposed to be this cool ass half dragon and is just a right click simulator. Mundo has not identity besides he is stupid and big. Volibear is this cool thunder bear warrior, but all he does is run at you. Udyr is a monk that harnesses animal spirit energy, but he just basic attacks and nothing else.

Like why make new champions when you have all of this potential in already established concepts that just missed their marks?

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyvsIp4i,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T18:51:58.507+0000)

On average the amount of time it takes to create a champion from scratch should be similar to the amount of time it takes to rework a champion.

Not when you consider the fact that they have a near infinitely amount of sources to base a new champion on. Remaking a champion takes much more effort because you have to consider how to keep a champion the same and make it different while at the same time making them new and fun and balanced while at the same time considering what players want vs what players need vs what Riot themselves intend. Not to mention the fact that you have to ask the question of whether or not any of that is necessary in the first place.

New champions are literally just look at inspirations (Other video games, Boards, old ideas, current trends) all of which takes little to no significant time at all, then make up shit from there. There's a reason why Yasuo still hasn't gotten the rework that Riot promised years ago.

Frosted Tips1 votes

There's a reason why Yasuo still hasn't gotten the rework that Riot promised years ago.

When was this? Do you have a source? Almost all new champions feel incomplete to me, but that it probably just a personal perspective. Also a lot of new champions have abilities or kits that are just better versions of old champion which is what really bothers me. Like Camille could have been a Vi Rework, or atleast parts of it. Or Neeko that kinda feels like she took abilities that Leblanc or Shaco would really like to have.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyvsIp4i,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T19:54:13.970+0000)

When was this? Do you have a source? Almost all new champions feel incomplete to me, but that it probably just a personal perspective. Also a lot of new champions have abilities or kits that are just better versions of old champion which is what really bothers me. Like Camille could have been a Vi Rework, or atleast parts of it. Or Neeko that kinda feels like she took abilities that Leblanc or Shaco would really like to have.

It was mentioned in one of their Ask Riot segements that Yasuo's kit is what makes him strong, not his stats. No nerf will make him not as strong as he is, so they'd have to change his kit in order to actually be able to balance him.

Frosted Tips1 votes

I mean it just says they would look into it. They never said it was for sure.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyvsIp4i,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T22:00:54.860+0000)

I mean it just says they would look into it. They never said it was for sure.

If they say that's literally the only way to balance him, it's gonna happen lol

taleofsonata2 votes

The lack of AP itemization for on hit user (Teemo, Kayle) and AP Fighter is what makes these stupid as fuck numbers.

Phieldworker1 votes

I do feel the heal is strong but I also disagree because how often it’s up. You have to be 40% or lower for the best heal, it brings you melee range and it has a decent cools down unless you stack cdr to 45%.

Vlad has a powerful heal that is on a short cd without cdr (I know it’s to sync with his theme more) and it’s a range heal. I don’t have any problems with it just pointing out there already existed powerful ap battle mage bruiser with strong sustain.

Most the battle mages have built in sustain (Swain, Lissandra, Vlad, Casseopia) to make up the fact that they have to stay in the thick of things longer unlike the squishier long range mages.

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