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Does Mini-Gnar Need Help?

Ironclad Dragon··3 votes·959 views

Continuing onward from my proposal Xerath Ultimate thread, let's take a look at one of League's newest members: Gnar

Gnar was unfortunately brushed over by the Shurima Patch and the arrival of Azir. While a definitely unique champion, Gnar is being neglected some, I believe. His passive, which is far from unpredictable, is a rogue element. You can carefully manage his Rage, but it always activates, sometimes when you don't want it. Don't get me wrong: Mega-Gnar is a beast (pun fully intended). But strength out of place isn't strength at all, and occasionally it'll fizzle out when you most need it. That leaves you with the adorable, but fragile Mini-Gnar.

In my experience, Mini-Gnar doesn't feel very satisfying. It's a time-out; a means to reattain Mega form, and little else... which I'm not okay with, from a designer's perspective. Gnar's concept is to have two forms, with their own strengths and weaknesses, but when one of the forms leaves you fragile and feeling helpless, it discourages any attachment to it. Sure, it has its uses, but when Gnar makes plays, it's usually delivered in Mega form. So what can be done?

Mini-Gnar has a simple strategy: auto-attack to apply Hyper, toss Boomerang, and hop to and from; comparatively, Mega Gnar has a stronger toss, a damaging leap, a rather strong stun and his game-changing sweep ultimate. Mega Gnar has more utility, and can take a hit better than Mini-Gnar... which leaves you wanting, since it's not your primary form. IMO, Mega Gnar should be satisfying but blunt; useful for certain conditions. Mini-Gnar should have the utility. Give him an actual ultimate, besides a speed boost which he already gets. Make players want to be Mini-Gnar.

Discuss ability changes.

7 Comments

Kowe The Ewok3 votes

I hate that you can't fully control his passive's activation. I wished it was more Shyvana-ish.

Before any buff to mini Gnar I'ld like to see this simple change get tested.

missinggrave2 votes

You realize the entire point of his rage gene is to make it so it's uncontrollable right? Though people can argue it's controlled to an extent, it's almost simulating an actual person's anger. Gnar has a hard time controlling his anger, which is why is constantly fills up in combat, while out of combat he is capable of remaining calm like any other champion in the league. Now, it also falls after awhile and it falls slowly, why? Because it's like taking a breather. You're taking the time to let Gnar calm down and regain his composure before going back into fighting - similar to what most people SHOULD do if they're upset and might explode, as you would know takes a bit of time depending on the situation. Controlling his rage isn't what makes him unique, leave that up to those who are trained fighters who know how to properly vent it towards something else - like Shyvana who uses it to transform, for example.

I personally believe that when it comes down to it, a buff to mini-Gnar or a longer wait until Gnar activates his passive would be the best course to take him if he were to receive any changes. This is because a buff to mini-Gnar would either provide him with enough proper damage or tankiness that he would feel more satisfying to play (( Much like how Fizz or Teemo have a lot of mobility, but also have some strength behind them )) strictly due to someone having to rely on hyper gets annoying at times. Even making it so that you have to spend more time as mini-Gnar would make it so that people would actually have to learn how to play two forms, it would FORCE them to think about how fragile Mini-Gnar is and have to learn how to make plays with him just as much as mega-Gnar.

GhostStalker3 votes

You realize the entire point of his rage gene is to make it so it's uncontrollable right? Though people can argue it's controlled to an extent, it's almost simulating an actual person's anger. Gnar has a hard time controlling his anger, which is why is constantly fills up in combat, while out of combat he is capable of remaining calm like any other champion in the league. Now, it also falls after awhile and it falls slowly, why? Because it's like taking a breather. You're taking the time to let Gnar calm down and regain his composure before going back into fighting - similar to what most people SHOULD do if they're upset and might explode, as you would know takes a bit of time depending on the situation. Controlling his rage isn't what makes him unique, leave that up to those who are trained fighters who know how to properly vent it towards something else - like Shyvana who uses it to transform, for example.

I personally believe that when it comes down to it, a buff to mini-Gnar or a longer wait until Gnar activates his passive would be the best course to take him if he were to receive any changes. This is because a buff to mini-Gnar would either provide him with enough proper damage or tankiness that he would feel more satisfying to play (( Much like how Fizz or Teemo have a lot of mobility, but also have some strength behind them )) strictly due to someone having to rely on hyper gets annoying at times. Even making it so that you have to spend more time as mini-Gnar would make it so that people would actually have to learn how to play two forms, it would FORCE them to think about how fragile Mini-Gnar is and have to learn how to make plays with him just as much as mega-Gnar.

We realize iths the entire point. But that doesn't make it not terrible It feels awful to play as Gnar because he's super unreliable and has crippling weaknesses in BOTH forms with strengths that don't match the capacity of his weaknesses.

I would like his Hop/Crunch to have a DRASTICALLY shorter cooldown. THAT would help massively. Like 6 seconds max cooldown.

missinggrave2 votes

I personally feel that Gnar's passive transitions great and it's very comfortable for me to keep pace with at all times. Though I will also admit that it does have some weak points that should be addressed - ie; mini-Gnar's reliability on hyper and mega-Gnar on his ult/stun. I will however agree that his Hop/Crunch should receive a cooldown reduction along with minor buffs (( or, again, a timer nerf )) to mini-Gnar so that he retains his current "unpredictable" nature while also remaining viable.

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

Shyvana.

SoleAccord2 votes

Even if Gnar's meant to transform out of the blue, if we can't have a Shyvana level reliable activation for whenever we NEED him to transform, I'd rather it not be automatic. When we reach 100% I wouldn't mind if it didn't activate in just five seconds and rather just activated when we used another ability, adding to the threat of engaging him when it's full. It's not different from having Shyvana's ult up, only Shyvana's ult being up is not obvious at all unless you track well.

I love the little guy, but it's frustrating.

Nagoh Shan2 votes

I personally found Gnar very hard to use, but I don't know if he's inherently UP. More like not rewarding enough for how hard he is to use. I had an easier time with my few matches on Azir than I did trying to figure out Gnar, but Azir is inherently simpler as he's just a more damage focused and less CC oriented Orianna. That being said, I do think Mini-Gnar's hyper could be more interesting, giving the chance for him to be much stronger, or a little weaker depending on the situation.

Basically, I can't figure out why Hyper doesn't scale off Mini-Gnar's bonus movespeed. What I mean is, instead of AP, Hyper would get damage scaling equal to his current movespeed - 325. The flat, per rank, damage ( 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 / 45) could be reduced to 0 when Gnar is slowed, but never made negative. This would give him really interesting interactions with slows and movespeed buffs. Popping chains of Hyper stacks, especially when Gnar has his ult passive, would then become potentially devastating. All while allowing the enemy an opportunity to counter the effect either through attempts to out-kite, slow, or hard CC Gnar.

The gameplay would be far more rewarding in Mini-Gnar form for the difficulty of managing him. Also, there should be a Gnar version of the "Lee sin - When the Q lands" videos for Gnar. "Gnar - When the rage bar fills". The single hardest part of playing Gnar is not Hop/Crunching into 4 people the moment you see you're at 100 Rage.

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