Veigar's gonna get the nerfbat

TotalJerk·Sep 21, 2015·6 votes·1,498 views

Thanks a lot guys. This happens every damn time.

A champion is decent but unpopular
Since he/she's unpopular, people assume it means their UP and start loudly complaining for buffs
Rito overbuffs
Pickrate/winrate skyrockets
People complain about everything that makes the champion fun
Champion gets gutted

Sure, Veigar wasn't a super strong meta fitting must pick, but he was decent, but mains aren't content with their champions being just decent, and with this buff his winrate has shot up 23 places to the third highest in the game.

46 Comments

Big LincolnSep 21, 201513 votes

He has a 3% pick rate, other champs have comparable stats

I don't think he's a problem

PennsSep 22, 20151 votes

I dont think youre serious. kek

Curling VeigarSep 21, 20155 votes

why do you say this? there have been plenty of cases of X champion having a low pick rate but a good win rate, and this isn't unique.

TotalJerkSep 21, 20151 votes

His winrate had a huge spike, and his playrate is starting to climb. Soon it's going to shoot above average when people realize how good Veigar actually is now, and I assure you that his winrate won't drop when that happens.

PennsSep 22, 20151 votes

Im sad to tell you this, my friend, but... Your main is overpowered and will get nerfed soon item 3070

SirPacifistaSep 22, 20154 votes

Haha, you havent even played with or against him since tha patch ;D So you are speaking without experience, and your meanigless provokation of Sadistic Veigar would mean that you speak out of stupidity and ignorence since you arent even able to make a proper argument for you cause, If you were American you would probably Vote for Trump and even be proud of that.

PennsSep 22, 20151 votes

You dont only get expierience about a game by playing said game tho. Or at least you dont get knowledge just by playing. And I know that Veigar is op lel.

SirPacifistaSep 22, 20153 votes

Pfff Hahaha, ohh i will overlook the structure of your sentence, and even this grammer, but your comment is meaningless since you dont have anything to underline your meaning. You are just butthurt and are trying so compensate for your ignorance. "i nev playeed a game vs Viegar but i know that hees soooo OP as shit thoo" - Thats the level and meaning with which you commented. If you try to comment, at least put a bit of brain into it, if possible, since you are just "butthurt" right now, because of the stated arguments.

PennsSep 22, 20151 votes

I didnt know how to phrase that properly lol dont cyber bully me :[ What "arguments" exactly do you want to hear?
http://champion.gg/champion/veigar Here, his win rate spiked HARD, his play rate spiked hard, his ban rate spiked pretty hard too, even his average damage dealt and his average kills spiked hard ---> strange I dont need to get expierience by playing the game myself, the game is pretty shitty right now, so I dont even bother playing a lot, tho Im doing it right now lel, I can just watch other people play it. Worth.

SirPacifistaSep 22, 20153 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/veigar

jeah, so Mordekaiser(as adc) is even more overpowered like Lux, Heimerdinger , Brand, Malzahar, Annie etc.

and these should all get nerfed too right?

because i SEE these people in LCS, but never saw a Veigar in a few months.

PennsSep 23, 20151 votes

Most of them probably should tbh lol.

skyfall619Sep 23, 20151 votes

Damn dude shit just got real

Devack The HolySep 21, 20154 votes

It's not going to break Veigar.

His early game is still abuseable.
The Q buff brought him a bit closer to where he was before DFG's removal in terms of farming.
The W buff was pretty much DEMANDED by everyone who EVER played Veigar, and was sorely needed to bring him a bit closer to other immobile mages.

HugifySep 21, 20153 votes

His early game Is still the most abusable thing on earth.

I mean,he might be more usable In low elo,but,he really can't allow himself to roam/fight without a gank,and he's still pretty killable late game and banshee's just make him cry.

Sir YamazukiSep 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

His early game Is still the most abusable thing on earth.

I mean,he might be more usable In low elo,but,he really can't allow himself to roam/fight without a gank,and he's still pretty killable late game and banshee's just make him cry.

Ah, the usual low elo excuse: http://champion.gg/champion/Veigar\

It's not even difficult to roam either, not sure why you think it is.

HugifySep 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PvetBbuq,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-09-21T14:21:58.913+0000)

Ah, the usual low elo excuse: http://champion.gg/champion/Veigar\

It's not even difficult to roam either, not sure why you think it is.

Well that's weird, I was certain He was more managable there.

As for the nerfbat,I think he Is going to get nerfed,but not drastically.

getting 25 potential AP from every teamfights Is kinda ridiculous,I suppose they'll give him the 3 seconds treatment katarina got or something similar.

But yeah,I expected plat+ could punish him well,also I think people will consider Zed and Talon a little more than sheeping their Ahri/Viktor/Lux fotM from now on.

Faded LichSep 21, 20151 votes

Eh..pop Banshi with Q, proceed with rest of combo and more than likely kill them anyway. If not just Q again at the end of said combo cause Q low CD. His early game isn't that bad honestly. It's not the best, but not the worse. He can poke that ass down really well if you're not careful.

SookoSep 21, 20152 votes

He already WAS decent but unpopular once.

Riot gutted him for being picked in the pro scene.

He then was turned back into decent-ish (not as fun as before), and became a lot less popular, with only some mains still playing him

Now he got buffed again, without either of his problems being actually fixed.

Icestar1186Sep 21, 20151 votes

The buffs were fairly minor. He just doesn't have to killsteal now, which made him good instead of just decent.

PennsSep 21, 20151 votes

Where exactly did he get overbuffed? He was broken before that already lel. People just need to find out about champs like that and just being in them patch notes helps a lot lel.

SirPacifistaSep 21, 20152 votes

Broken? In which way is his he broken as a whole? His E is easy dodgable as well as his W. He has a VERY WEAK early game, needs to famr to get strong, and is countered by many MR items. Also, because i KNOW you want to say he can: he CANT oneshot any decent player, if he can, then give me the math (you know, the school subject you probably failed)

PennsSep 22, 20151 votes

And in which way did he get buffed? His E is probably one of the best spells in the whole game and his damage is out of this world. Ill give yoz some math. Lets say Veigar has 500 AP at level 11+, which is 2-3 items max. His enemy has 400 AP as well. You know how much his ult does? 1200. So yeah.

SirPacifistaSep 22, 20153 votes

Like your arguments as a whole, your math is really bad and missing so many points. I mean i even challenged you with math and this is your best excuse what you can give?

Let me try to explain it to you, i will hold it simple, since you obviously dont understand the game mechanics off league of legends. I wont even try to explain the stun to you, since evading it would be toot hard for you.

So the math for your "One shot"

Veigar Level 11 Ult does 375 + (1.0 AP) + (0.8 enemy ap) Orianna for example now is level 11 with 400 AP (with 1295 Hp at level 11) Veigar will have 500 like you said.

That means Veigar will do 375 + 500 +320 Damage = 1195 thats 1195 Damage but i see you couldnt even calculate this, even with your own conditions. Now, do we now something that negates a percentage of the magic damage? yes we do? Jeah dude, it MR. She has 30 MR without items (and dude, if oyu dont at leats get a grail or something you are stupid as shit). So she gets 77% of the damage 1195 * 77% = 919 Damage. WIth no Runes, no heal items like even a freaking item 1056 and not a single mr items from Oris side.

Soooo how excatly are 919 Damage one shot a mage with 1295 Health (no health items) ? jeah, would still be 376 Health.

So its literally not possible under your condidtions. EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE DAMAGE DUDE, and thats quite sad from you, to not being able to even know that... item 3070

So what your argument now? that its still insane Ap damage? Jeah... nope, 673 Damage against somebody with no ap. Fiddle by the way does 550 Damage per sec with 500Ap with its ult, so that would be after MR be, 2117.5 Damage in a huge Aoe. You play fizz as i can see, not very well, but i will still take him for example: Fizz 500 Ap = R = 635 Damage after MR. In a Aoe. And all your attacks do 20% more damage for 6 sec. With everything at level 2 and 500 ap that would be 146more damage if everything hits, so 781 Damage, against everyone, ap or not. (and i didnt even meantion the ability to evade 99% of all abilities ingame, THATS unfair)

So, my fiend, THIS IS MATH!!! Thats probably why you never got a got degree or diploma in reallife because you cant even do the math ;D

I hope now you understand what i meant with

Also, because i KNOW you want to say he can: he CANT oneshot any decent player, if he can, then give me the math (you know, the school subject you probably failed)

and you failedi t again. but if you can correct my math here im open for mistakes. could have been that i made a mistake, but i shouldnt be more than 1%-2% off.

Dont take this as an insult, i challenged you, you excepted, and now got your ass handed to you. now try the same if you can ;D

PennsSep 22, 20151 votes

My math was perfectly fine, but ok... You called me "butthurt", but the only one getting close to being like that is you. Youre saying I calculated wrong because I rounded 1195 up to 1200? Thats probably the definition of butthurt lol. Also, I never said it would actually do 1200 against that target, did I? I couldnt know you would want it that exact. Also I never said Veigars ult alone would oneshot "any decent player".

"Oneshot" normally means "killing someone with one fast spell rotation", right? And Veigars full rotation under those conditions does 755 +260% AP +80% of dem enemy AP if he maxes E second, so thats over 2050. Seems like a oneshot to me. If you get hit by his E, which is easier to do than it looks like, you dead.

But thats not enough for you isnt it? Lets say Ori has 55 magic resist because of Athenes, Veigars combo still does 1325 dmg. Thats still a oneshot rite?

I was just giving an example with random numbers, too.. Lets look at late game where Veigar shines. If he has 850, which probably isnt even enough for 4 items Veigar but whatever, and his enemy mage has 600 AP. Then his ult alone does over 2000 dmg with Ludens, ~1300 against those 55 MR. And this is a point & click ability ---> barely no counterplay.

SirPacifistaSep 22, 20153 votes

Youre saying I calculated wrong because I rounded 1195 up to 1200?

Yes and no, no because its nearly right and yes because you didnt bring MR up, which is plain stupid.

Oneshot" normally means "killing someone with one fast spell rotation", right?

Nope, Oneshot, is killing someone with 1 shot, I never heard that a ZED oneshotted someone, or Vlad , did you? YOu interpretet "Oneshot" false, its like his name intended it.

Lets say Ori has 55 magic resist because of Athenes, Veigars combo still does 1325 dmg

Cute, if you hit your ult with fizz, zed etc. you can do the same or even much more when you autoattack too.

If he has 850, which probably isnt even enough for 4 items Veigar but whatever, and his enemy mage has 600 AP. Then his ult alone does over 2000 dmg with Ludens, ~1300 against those 55 MR.

Yes, and he is as squishy as he can be and every competent Adc will have a Banshees Veil lategame and he cant do shit against anyone tanky. And ap champs will get either of these item 3027 item 3001 item 3116 , which WILL make the survive. And if you get stunned by Veigar lategame, to get the full combo, then its your own fault for dying, if you miss your only stun against someone lategame then its nearly asured that you will die in an instant, nomatter who the enemy is (except you are a tank, because tanks have balls of steel)

Also he still isnt overpowered, he also dont have a unfair mechanic like Fizz, which is a good example. Veigar uses E and stuns Fizz (because he isnt very good) then uses W+Q+R Lategame. Lets say Veigar has 2000AP´i dont care. Veigars Q will probably hit, but after that Fizz will either use Zhonyas or just jump and not only survive Veigar combo, but ill also kill him safely, since he is useless after that combo.

But hey, why dont you try playing him when hes so overpowered? You should win every ranked with him eh? Its not like he isnt in Every LCS game or in every second diamond game right? (this was sarcasm, but please do it, before you talk about a champ you dont really know)

PennsSep 22, 20151 votes

If Annie "oneshots" you, what did she do? I doubt she only used one spell, and I bet you heared that often enough. Same with LB, Zed,... and same with Veigar.

Hm, Fizz ult does around the same as Veigar burst just that his fish is way harder to hit than Veigars stun, or at least having your enemy in it so he probably cant dodge anyway.

He does have a unfair mechanic. A point and click ability with low cooldown and dmg other champs can only dream of is indeed unfair. Uhm... If Veigar has "2000 AP", his ult alone does 2500 dmg + whatever scaling you get from Fizz, so yeah... I doubt he would survive that 2.5 second stun lol. Even Veigars Q wouldve done like 1700 dmg with Ludens...

LCS is already over this season, isnt it? Idk bcs I dont watch it but whatever. And I think Veigar is already picked in every second diamond game, if not even more often lol.

SirPacifistaSep 23, 20153 votes

Unfair? cute, it can be blocked and negated any you can see it. He is also a champion with no cc other than his stun, hes slow, but can hit hard, seemd pretty fair, for everyone execept you it seems.

f Veigar has "2000 AP", his ult alone does 2500 dmg + whatever scaling

Jeah, Fizz would do that too and? Many other ap mid champions could do that, but still have escape mechanism and reliable CCs.

And I think Veigar is already picked in every second diamond game, if not even more often lol.

http://www.lolking.net/champions/veigar?region=all&map=sr&queue=5x5&league=diamond#statistics http://www.lolking.net/champions/fizz?region=all&map=sr&queue=5x5&league=diamond#statistics

Or even Better http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-popularity&range=daily&map=sr&queue=5x5&league=diamond http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-popularity&range=daily&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=diamond

Yeah you think every second game? What should anybody care what you think if you dont think? 3.14% was his highest pick rate in a month completly opposide of what you said. Dude, talk to someone who is at your level at education, you cnat argue with people with a brain.

PennsSep 23, 20151 votes

So a spell has to be impossible to block, impossible to be negated and invisible to be unfair?

His stun is like one of the best abilities in the whole game. Its aoe, lasts 2.5 seconds at level 13 and has amazing zoning. Thats enough to not list CC as a weakness lol.

You always argue with Fizz, but Veigar just presses R while Fizz ult is basically impossible to hit onto any carry thats not bad late game.

But you seem like that type of guy that doesnt want believe anything about a champ until that champ is perma banned/ picked every game. If the huge pick, play and ban rate spike isnt enough for u I cant help it.

SirPacifistaSep 23, 20153 votes

haha^^

jeah, jeah you are quite the delusional, you said Veigar "oneshots" people, you tried to impress me with your "math", you said he was picked very often in ranked, that he is / was already broken.

And you failed or even embarassed yourself with your twisted logic, which only seems to make sense for yourself.

nearly everything you said has turned out to be wrong.

But you seem like that type of guy that doesnt want believe anything about a champ until that champ is perma banned/ picked every game. If the huge pick, play and ban rate spike isnt enough for u I cant help it.

No, i just dont agree with someone who cries about a champ he has literally (yes literally in the sense of literally) no experience with, and is argueing like a little kid because you lost against someone more skilled than you. (like that, dont know if that happened)

If the huge pick, play and ban rate spike isnt enough for u I cant help it.

http://www.lolking.net/charts?type=bans

Wtf is wrong with you, you are the one who just cant believe he is very very wrong. You said he has high pick rates in diamond and huge ban rates. Everything turned out to be wrong.

He has normal strenghts and weaknesses like every other champ, but you are just some other idiot who doenst know shit about League of Legends and need to say things NOBODY agrees, mostly because people can google to see that you are making no sense. YOU are making so many things UP. that this is just embarassing for you.

PennsSep 23, 20151 votes

Yeah, Veigar doesnt oneshot people at all. So next time someone says "Annie oneshot me in one second", you say "nah, she used 3 spells so she didnt oneshot you" right?

Im not "crying" about Veigar, nor am I "arguing like a little kid" lol. I simply stated that hes a really strong mid laner and will most likely be very popular soon by exaggerating a bit.

Most banned champs dont matter http://champion.gg/champion/veigar Here, he spiked hard in every single aspect and he went from, stat wise, number 23 to third best mid laner this patch. Youre either ignorant or a Veigar main to deny anything about that.

The only thing I made up in all of my comments was that hes already picked every second game in high elo and thats because I simply read/ heard that he is picked often in high elo. He has a really high win rate in diamond tho, the highest in master+, actually. http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-winrate&range=weekly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=challenger But I guess words like "hidden op", or "new meta" dont exist for you kek.

SirPacifistaSep 26, 20151 votes

by the way, why are you so strong against Veigar, even through you never played against him?

Why arent you saying Wukong, Mordekaiser, Brand and Annie are in need of a nerf? Their winrate is higher see: http://champion.gg/ and http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=role&order=ascend

Even Lux, Heimerdinger and Bran have a higher winrate, so why is there so muc hate for Veigar? I like Veigar yes, but he is in no way op, if you arent good, then you wont get good results with him. And if you can kill the enemy easily with a single combo, whos fault is it? The one without any MR items and running into the stun, or the one slow, squishy mage?

PennsSep 25, 20151 votes

Ill take that as a won argument lel.

SirPacifistaSep 25, 20151 votes

Yep XD you won, because you win by getting proven wrong in nearly every argument you had (his damage output, play and ban rate etc.)

Also you didnt only get downvotes here, all your comments in thsi thread and others like http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/dEGpq9B0-seriously-leave-veigar-alone are showing that YOU must be the retard, but yes you won ;D

Penns (EUW)

3 days ago

You dont only get expierience about a game by playing said game tho. Or at least you dont get knowledge just by playing. And I know that Veigar is op lel.

showed that you have absolutly no idea what you are talking about^^ and that you have no idea what you need to do to play against good player (as i can see from your match history, which clearly shows that you must be a pro player XD

PennsSep 25, 20151 votes

Implying down/ upvotes win arguments? I got downvoted twice (or at least upvoted for every other downvote) in the thread you posted, which most likely was the Veigar main that posted the OP and you so.. yeah lol.

Where did I get proven wrong? In fact, I prove you wrong and you stopped talking about any points. You clearly didnt/ dont know what "oneshotting" means, or you just acted like that to not totally fail defending Veigar. I was also right about his win/ ban/ pick rate spiking hard, so where did you prove me wrong? https://i.imgur.com/z9gIsU9.png Again, everything spiked HARD that patch, which indicates that something went wrong right? The only thing I got proven wrong in was that hes picked every second game in high elo (tho Im not sure about that, he might be atm, idk). Like, he went from, stat wise, place 23 to 3 of all mid laners. Why are you even defending Veigar like that? Do u main him on your actual account if you have one lol?

Also, what exactly does my match history show? I had pretty "decent" stats in most of those games despite playing pretty rarely?

SirPacifistaSep 26, 20151 votes

You ; You clearly didnt/ dont know what "oneshotting" means, or you just acted like that to not totally fail defending Veigar.

Oneshot" normally means "killing someone with one fast spell rotation", right?

"Nope, Oneshot, is killing someone with 1 shot, I never heard that a ZED oneshotted someone, or Vlad , did you?"

CANT YOU READ? I SAID HERE THAT WE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS!!

Where did I get proven wrong? "I was also right about his win/ ban/ pick rate spiking hard, so where did you prove me wrong?"

And I think Veigar is already picked in every second diamond game, if not even more often lol.

http://www.lolking.net/champions/veigar?region=all&map=sr&queue=5x5&league=diamond#statistics http://www.lolking.net/champions/fizz?region=all&map=sr&queue=5x5&league=diamond#statistics

Right there. And his ult damage since you wasnt able to use mr. ohh and

If the huge pick, play and ban rate spike isnt enough for u I cant help it. http://www.lolking.net/charts?type=bans and your picture, it even shows that his banrate is really low.

AAAANd you arent able to read charts, where the fuck is he

Also, what exactly does my match history show?

Playstyle, item builds etc. And taht you have still no experience against Veigar.

4.Winrate is normal, not higher than many others.

Ok, now tell me, you said

I prove you wrong

where? what did i say which was wrong?

PennsSep 26, 20151 votes

I hear "Zed oneshot me" all the time when a Zed kills someone with one spell rotation. Dont say you never heard someone say... or you never read "Annie oneshots people", because you did. And she most certainly doesnt oneshot people with just 1 spell. Same goes for LB, Fizz,...

The only thing I got proven wrong in was that hes picked every second game in high elo

I already admitted that, but I didnt get proven wrong about anything else.

I said his pick, play and ban rate "SPIKED" hard. I never said they were actually high compared to other champs, they are high compared to Veigar last patch, and all the other mid laners, actually. You can clearly see that here http://champion.gg/champion/veigar and you cant prove me wrong, because its a fact.

How can you know what my playstyle is by looking at my match history and what was wrong about my builds? I thought items are a choice to make, not a rule to follow.

Veigars win rate is number 12 of all champs, which is indeed higher than many others (according to the site I already posted http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=&sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend).

You said many things that were wrong, Im too lazy to search and quote them now tho so lets just let that be.

Ps: Idk why Veigar. I find Lux, for example, just as strong, if not stronger than Veigar. But Veigars overall kit is just unhealthy, while Lux is only really op because of numbers.

CrettSep 22, 20151 votes

Calm down

SirPacifistaSep 22, 20151 votes

ok ;D

SasogwaSep 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And in which way did he get buffed? His E is probably one of the best spells in the whole game and his damage is out of this world. Ill give yoz some math. Lets say Veigar has 500 AP at level 11+, which is 2-3 items max. His enemy has 400 AP as well. You know how much his ult does? 1200. So yeah.

But R didn't get any buff, it's just W being more reactive and Q giving more AP with assists.

CatastropSep 21, 20151 votes

Thank you. I wouldn't call myself a Veigar main, but he was fine and I liked playing him. He had exploitable weaknesses and fairly defined strengths. So the stun is a bit harder to land, it's not impossible if you play your cards right. Gosh, I just hope he doesn't get nerfed too hard.

EnosetcSep 21, 20151 votes

i tried telling people veigar wasn't weak a while ago

although people agreed, i got the usual circlejerk-y responses from a lot of the people that didn't. most didn't even want to discuss and resorted to nitpicking my phrasing

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/7XNkFjnl-can-we-stop-circulating-the-idea-that-veigar-is-weak

SirPacifistaSep 21, 20151 votes

Jeah, did you actually read your comments? Sh4de made good post about him and PKnowledge said something about everything you said, which is logicly and well researched.

You by the other hand has Zero ranked games with Veigar, which i will interpred with having no experience on playing Veigar, also you didnt comment the longer post in the Thread you started, which explained nicely what Veigars weaknesses and strenghs are.

so much about your "most didn't even want to discuss and resorted to nitpicking my phrasing" you didnt answered many good posts.

EnosetcSep 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Jeah, did you actually read your comments? Sh4de made good post about him and PKnowledge said something about everything you said, which is logicly and well researched.

You by the other hand has Zero ranked games with Veigar, which i will interpred with having no experience on playing Veigar, also you didnt comment the longer post in the Thread you started, which explained nicely what Veigars weaknesses and strenghs are.

so much about your "most didn't even want to discuss and resorted to nitpicking my phrasing" you didnt answered many good posts.

i meant "most of the people who disagreed"

thanks for the nitpick tho

JefftiffySep 21, 20151 votes

The problem is something I have been saying for a long time with Veigar (65% win rate with him over 35+ games). Is when they reworked him his stun was basically useless against counter builds. They could walk into your stun and escape your W as long as they built Merc treads. With the changes now he can actually hit people dumb enough to walk into his walls as well as land his W more frequently. His early game is only slightly bettter because he can get AP off assists. And he still struggles when focused and you build Banshee's. But I still see people who take summoner 1 or item 3140 and struggle because they don't really counter him. His stun is on a really low CD if you build CDR so taking something that has a long CD isn't how you counter him especially when both of them only solve you being dumb enough to walk into his walls.

Also I see more and more people slam their face into the walls instead of waiting for them to go down. LeeSin "His stun is down. DIVE DIVE DIVE." slams face into wall "Oh.....". Thresh "LCS BIG PLAYS... OH... um..." Tristana "It's a squishy I'm going to goomba stomp it! Oh... I'm dead". And this is in Gold Elo.

And then there was the stupid Zyra one game. Oh it's a veigar let me bully him all game. I'm just sitting under tower farming the entire game and randomly walk up and throw a stun down around her. She looks extremely confused because all of the sudden I got aggro walks forward into the stun to dodge the W and Nidalee jumps out of the jungle and kills her. Rinse and repeat until I took tower and roamed bot. It's like people get dumber the higher up I go.