ADCs vs Assassins

Kairoptra··16 votes·2,121 views

No, this is not a debate about "lul ADC in 2k17" or "Nerf Draven/Caitlyn/DD". Well, actually that's not entirely true.

Let me explain: This post is not about whether or not Riot has made poor choices concerning one or both of these groups (if you want to talk about that, make your own post or go to somebody else's). Instead, I'd like to criticize the community in a way that isn't done often enough. It's the fact that it never gives Riot a break.

What I mean by that is whenever ADCs become "OP", a bunch of people immediately start bashing Riot over how they can't do anything against them. Then the same thing happens with Assassins, and it never ends! I am, by no stretch of the imagination, saying anything along the lines of "Riot and League of Legends are perfect", "The community has no right to complain", or "Riot shouldn't listen to the community". What I am saying is that whenever something happens, instead of trying to adapt and find ways around the problem, a lot of people just immediately flood into the boards and begin trash-talking Riot's game design.

Then, on top of all of that, they go ahead and assume that the community is in agreement. In Then they get a bunch of initial upvotes by people who agree with them, and bury anyone who tries to say otherwise in their comment section in downvotes. This heavily influences the psychology of the community and just leads to a lot of unnecessary hassle that more often than not goes nowhere.

Now, I'm not here to take sides or express any opinion towards the state of the game. However, I firmly believe that all parts of the community should have equal representation when it comes to the boards. If you think Riot is doing a great job, speak up! If you want something to stay the put while others call for change, say something! Your voice deserves to be heard, but too many people are too scared or too disinterested to talk about anything other than the problems. What I've learned, not just from this community, but from life, is that people only tend to speak up when they are agitated, and I'm no exception, if this post attests towards anything.

In addition, these people need to stop acting like they could do any better than the balance team and that what should be done to balance the game is the easiest thing in the world, because last time I checked, the odds of any one of these people actually knowing anything about what goes on over at Riot HQ are far slimmer than if they didn't. If it was a simple as they made it sound, don't you think it would already have been done by now? Once more, I'm not saying people shouldn't complain or that Riot is doing the best job they could right now. However, that does not excuse the behavior exhibited by those community members who see fit to do nothing better with their time than make posts telling a group of trained professionals that are ten years in the business that they can do better.

There's something I don't think a lot of you understand, so let me spell it out for you:

NOT EVERYBODY AGREES WITH YOU.

We need to come to an understanding that our problems aren't necessarily everyone else's. There is more than one kind of player in this community. We come from all around the world, with different background, different ideals, and yes, different opinions. If you want to say something; if you want to make a statement, then go ahead and do it. But I think we need to take a moment and redefine what that means. It shouldn't be acting like we're some tragic victims when we're the ones in control. It shouldn't look like propaganda graffitied on a public building, or one of those protests that end with people throwing rocks and glass bottles. It should be a conversation, not a statement. It should be open and considerate and accepting, not ranting and belittling and unnecessarily rude. This is a place where we can discuss the future of this wonderful game which has brought us all together and which we all clearly care so much about, not where you can poke fun at something you don't fully grasp and show off your Napoleon complex. And for the love of Jesse Perring, be civil with one another!

In closing, you have the freedom to completely disregard this post and go about your business. However, I have done something that not a lot of people do on these boards: I have encouraged you to think about what you're doing and speak your mind.


I'm aware that my post kind of broadened in its topic; going from the specific issue of the two parties "Nerf Assassins" and "Nerf ADCs" to the more general topic of the boards' mob psychology. However, if there's was ever a good place to start this conversation, it's the thing everyone's talking about right now.

Oh, and, sorry about the clickbait title, but how else am I going to get people to read this? I might be fighting an uphill battle, but I am realistic.

EDIT: I would like to add a tl;dr for those of you who are unable or unwilling to read my entire post:

This community needs to take a moment to get over itself. It needs to take a minute and realize that the community is almost never in complete agreement, and that just because your post about how broken ADCs or Assassins are right now, doesn't mean the community is in agreement. Those among us of different opinions need to step up and say something because we need to hear the WHOLE voice of this community. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with complaining, in fact I encourage it; it's one of the most vital ways of providing feedback. However, that should not entail unnecessary hostility and acting as though you know better than trained professionals. If it was so easy to balance the game, don't you think it would be by now? We need to come to an understanding that the ideas of this community are far more diverse than we think or that is shone.

23 Comments

Critmaster Garen12 votes

whenever assassins become strong, its affecting a portion of the players who mostly play other squishy carries. this can be a decent portion of the champions, but usually not more than 1/3 of the total pool.

whenever adc are too strong, its affecting everyone, because theyre shredding beefy targets and blowing up other squishies alike. in most recent patches this includes even their intended counters which they burst with frontloaded damage or critical strikes in less time than it takes for assassins or certain mages to complete their spell rotation due to the new delayed burst mechanics riot has been adding.

id say it was not just complaining, but valid critisizm.

Kairoptra2 votes

Please read the paragraph directly under the line. I didn't make this post to dispute which is worse, I merely used the issue as a starting point.

JaxMoonStealer1 votes

Don't bother, people usually read only the title and the first paragraph or so before commenting. But it's normal, this applies everywhere, not just these boards.

I'd recommend you to include a TL;DR at the end. However, the title is indeed misleading. I also thought this topic would be about ADCs vs Assassins.

Kairoptra1 votes

Oh, and, sorry about the clickbait title, but how else am I going to get people to read this? I might be fighting an uphill battle, but I am realistic.

Yeah, I guess you're right concerning how nobody seems to read beyond the title. I'll definitely be putting a tl;dr, thanks for the suggestion!

Skorch5 votes

No matter which you personally prefer, they still are both a problem for the same reasons.

And both are, while painful, not as bad as the boards and community make them seem.

Unvictus1 votes

How are they a problem for the same reason? Ranged characters who get a whole role designated to protecting them vs melee characters who have to put themsleves in harms way to get to their primary target. Can they both be frustrating when strong? Definitely. But I wouldn't say they are annoying for the same exact reasons.

Skorch2 votes

They may be different classes and how the play is different, but they both do the same thing when strong. Absolutely delete anything that moves near them.

KronosFromDotA5 votes

League balance is bullshit, there's no excuse.

Riot is a company like any other, they need to sell, they need to make the game 'brand new' on every patch, if you're a OTP, that is bad, sooner or later something will affect your champion and you will change the champion, or at least your playstyle, the changes are to keep the players trying new stuff, new champions, and if you try a new champion and like it, why not buy a skin for your new main?

I mean, this is absolutely normal imo, no one can say that Riot is really trying to make the game balanced because they don't, you don't balance a game shoving new things, new champions, new mechanics into a thing that is already a mess.

So please, don't be a Riot fanboy, for the sake of your sanity.

Kairoptra3 votes

Did you read my post? I don't think you did, or at least not the whole thing, and if you did, you didn't acknowledge several things.

I made it a point of saying that I was not on Riot's side, nor was I on any other:

I am, by no stretch of the imagination, saying anything along the lines of "Riot and League of Legends are perfect", "The community has no right to complain", or "Riot shouldn't listen to the community".

And later:

Once more, I'm not saying people shouldn't complain or that Riot is doing the best job they could right now.

You completely missed the point of this post, and your argument is completely irrelevant to the conversation. I'm not going to spoon-feed the message to you, so read it back through before replying.

JaxMoonStealer1 votes

This applies to all the other games as well, change keeps things fresh not only for League, but for gaming in general.

And sorry to point this out, but that last line was extremely lame and almost invalidated every other point you had.

Rainfall5 votes

its not just about asssasins,assasins are not essential in every game.

AirKingNeo3 votes

No instead you have mages.

Kairoptra2 votes

Please read the paragraph directly under the line. I didn't make this post to dispute the state of the game, I merely used the issue as a starting point.

Eternal7913 votes

I have to agree. Just before ADC's were strong, everyone complained about assassins. Then assassins got nerfed, and guess what? Everyone complains about ADC's now. I guarantee we're gonna go back to everyone complaining about assassins soon.

Executioner2 votes

100% about to happen.

morris12 votes

Assassins are kinda like cartoon villains. The more I play this game, the more I start to sympathize with them. While their gameplay might be frustrating for the enemy team, they only exist to eliminate squishy threats, and they can hardly even do that nowadays if the carries aren't stupid enough to wander by themselves.

AL0001 votes

I don't think riot got this...

assassin vs adc AS burst damage vs Auto Attack. AS no CC vs CC AS stealth vs visible.

You know that stealth, Burst damage and or CC is the king of offensive.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Kind of a design problem; assassins are mobile, safe, high damage champions. On the other hand, marksmens' primarily continuous damage, ranged, and unavoidable. Neither is going to feel healthy in a pvp enviroment, as either will often bulldoze a game when they get ahead, while denying most counterplay short of some cheesy strategy.

zaire901 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pqz6dmVT,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-07-16T04:34:31.773+0000)

Kind of a design problem; assassins are mobile, safe, high damage champions. On the other hand, marksmens' primarily continuous damage, ranged, and unavoidable. Neither is going to feel healthy in a pvp enviroment, as either will often bulldoze a game when they get ahead, while denying most counterplay short of some cheesy strategy.

Also wouldnt the adc be the safe one do to the fact that they dont have to get in the enemies face to deal damage

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Yeah, safety can be in different forms depending on the situation. Most marksmen have either a crowd control or a mobility spell as well; while assassins and divers have both or double dip mobility.

Kairoptra1 votes

Guys, if you're going to comment, make sure you've read it first, or at least the tl;dr version I put at the bottom (though I strongly encourage you read the whole thing, since I may have forgotten to add some of the more specific issues). This conversation isn't going to go anywhere if you guys just go off on unnecessary tangents.

Pinkaj1 votes

Buut: the people complaining are mostly complaining about the skilled players. Against mastery 7 Caitlyn? They complain on the boards. Mastery 6 Fizz lands every ult? They complain on the boards.

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