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Dianas attack speed passive is incredibly awkward.

Critmaster Garen··62 votes·2,504 views

seems anti synergetic with the rest of her kit.

shes kindof incentivised to fast combo all of her abilities together (q into w activation into ult, e and another ult), and not slowly rotate through them to maintain her attack speed for extended durations.

its made even more awkward by the fact that some of her abilities have to be combod together. lets say you hit your q on a distant target. congratulations, you have increased attack speed on your next 3 attacks without being in auto attack range of the guy you hit.

so youre either forced to use your ult or your e to get in range to capitalize on that bonus damage, which overrides her passive and wastes 3 whole empowered auto attacks.

she needs a larger rework, that gives her a better kit as a fighter, if you want to switch her role from an assassin to a diver.

my first suggestion would be to combine her q and her ult. meaning if she hits enemy champions with her q, they get marked by moonlight and she has a couple of seconds to right click one of the targets to immediately get in their face.

her e should probably be switched around and worked into a new bigger ult effect, since its probably her biggest and most flashy ability.

she will need a new e, that woks well with the rest of her kit.

53 Comments

Death by Glamour22 votes

It's because she was never meant to be an assassin.

Sure that is the way that she has only really been played because of her numbers but she was intended to be some sort of ap bruiser/diver.

Agreed she needs a rework rather than buffs, we don't need more stat check champions in the game.

Dezell1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PoWMwQ99,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-13T17:40:53.665+0000)

It's because she was never meant to be an assassin.

Sure that is the way that she has only really been played because of her numbers but she was intended to be some sort of ap bruiser/diver.

Agreed she needs a rework rather than buffs, we don't need more stat check champions in the game.

She used to actually be an AP bruiser/diver but she had too much sustain/tankiness so Riot decided she couldn't do that anymore.

Now she's ???????? and unlikely to change IMO

OyddAWqJ5r14 votes

It's not a part of her burst, rather a part of her extended dueling power should you need it in an extended duel.

For instance, if you are fighting a Maokai 1v1 you shouldn't just unload your kit but rather space it all out. It gives her the option of extended trading.

Basically, it's for purposes outside of her extended burst combo. Also helps with jungling and waveclearing.

RainbowIcee1 votes

^ exactly, also that passive it's viral to her jungle clear. It's pretty damn good tbh.

I Main Swain6 votes

i agree, its an interesting idea and it is really good for helping her deal some solid damage to champions early game, but its a passive for a fighter, not an assassin.

personally, i prefer her how she is over reworking her to be a fighter. i wouldnt really have much of a problem with them doing a soft rework and just adjusting some numbers and her cooldowns to shift her into a fighter, but i would rather them keep her as is where shes honestly viable as either.

CytheGuy5 votes

I believe Riot's idea with it might have been more centered around her wave clearing/jungle clearing. It doesn't make sense to use in a fight, but it does help with clears a bit.

GrReaper961 votes

Yeah Ritos been pushing jug Diana a lot lately. Miss her in mid lane :(

CytheGuy1 votes

I'm a jg main, so I didn't play her mid much, but it was pretty fun when I did it

Spice POWAH1 votes

Diana mid isn't bad, I've played her a few times

the only difference is that it sometimes takes an extra second to kill someone early game

AFK Push1 votes

and rip towers too

BobaFlautist4 votes

They should have at least given it a Riven-like mechanic where you can stack it and hold on for at least like 2-3 abilities instead of just refreshing it. If they limited it to 2 ability (so 6 stacks) total she'd still have to hold some abilities for the best-case combo but it wouldn't feel punishing to actually use your skills when you need them

Frightning1 votes

{quoted}

They should have at least given it a Riven-like mechanic where you can stack it and hold on for at least like 2-3 abilities instead of just refreshing it. If they limited it to 2 ability (so 6 stacks) total she'd still have to hold some abilities for the best-case combo but it wouldn't feel punishing to actually use your skills when you need them

Had the same thought myself, some stack-holding like that would open up possibilities for her (though the steroid might be TOO good then, idk).

Hello I am Bird1 votes

If you're building her burst, the chances of her getting even 3 auto attacks off are slim, much less 6

Frightning1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hello I am Bird,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PoWMwQ99,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-09-14T06:15:58.032+0000)

If you're building her burst, the chances of her getting even 3 auto attacks off are slim, much less 6

In a 5v5 teamfight, sure, but she's trash at those anyways, especially with the meta what it is atm. But in duels/skirmishes, you absolutely can get 3,6 even more sometimes, AAs in, especially when your E steroid is 90% and you have item 3006+item 3115 in your build (dueling+burst Diana is something like: item 1402/item 3285+item 3006+item 3115+item 3089+item 3100+situational last item).

Solidair33 votes

Diana's original development kit actually did use her E as her ult. She also used Moonlight as a secondary resource instead of (in addition to???) mana. She would throw her sword in the ground, pull everyone to the center and the area would fill up and "eclipse" dealing damage based on her moonlight.

It did not make it through to live so I think we can assume Riot was unable to make it work for live.

I will say, she needs a rework, but I think it needs to be more dramatic than this.

GrReaper962 votes

Originally her AOE ult did true damage, which turned out to be too strong.

Starcraft243ver1 votes

But but, we need some AOE TRUE %MAXHP Damages, there's none in the game currently !

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Diana's original development kit actually did use her E as her ult. She also used Moonlight as a secondary resource instead of (in addition to???) mana. She would throw her sword in the ground, pull everyone to the center and the area would fill up and "eclipse" dealing damage based on her moonlight.

It did not make it through to live so I think we can assume Riot was unable to make it work for live.

I will say, she needs a rework, but I think it needs to be more dramatic than this.

wasnt she a season 2 champion?

back then, riot worked on a strict 2 week release schedule. and whenever they couldnt make an ability or a champion work in the time they had available, theyd just scratch the whole thing and simplify the ability or kit to make the deadline.

the original concept might have been amazing, but too difficult to code, animate or otherwise delay the release at the time.

maybe now that they changed their attitude, they could review the original concept.

RavenMagus3 votes

The attack speed allows you to proc Lichbane smoother in a oneshot combo. The cleave gives you high amounts of extended damage (especially if you built Nashor's) and allows you to push towers much more effectively. The mana regain is minor, but helps her early game where you practically have to spam shield to stay alive against ranged opponents.

It may not feel all that synergistic because it's not completely focused on helping you with one shot assassinations, but the passive honestly feels nice to use. It allows her to have more depth than "Akali with longer cooldowns".

Handy Sandy 2 votes

Isn't she a splitpusher? It helps her take down towers kinda.

IWrath1 votes

It's useful in certain situations. It can help with the mana restoration portion early game or extended fights late.

Not much use for it mid game as your main combo should kill.

At least that's what I've thought since playing her.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

It's useful in certain situations. It can help with the mana restoration portion early game or extended fights late.

Not much use for it mid game as your main combo should kill.

At least that's what I've thought since playing her.

im not saying its always useless. it just doesnt seem to play well with the rest of her kit.

to use the passive properly, youre supposed to cast an ability, auto attack 3 times, then cast the next ability, auto attack 3 times, and so on.

but the entire rest of her kit is built in a way that makes you want to fast combo all the abilities together, without slowing yourself down with auto attacks.

IWrath1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PoWMwQ99,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-09-13T18:28:08.187+0000)

im not saying its always useless. it just doesnt seem to play well with the rest of her kit.

to use the passive properly, youre supposed to cast an ability, auto attack 3 times, then cast the next ability, auto attack 3 times, and so on.

but the entire rest of her kit is built in a way that makes you want to fast combo all the abilities together, without slowing yourself down with auto attacks.

That is not how you should do it. That's pointless since Diana is centered around her abilities, you Q-R/W-2x AA-E-AA-Bonus/repeat.

You're getting 0 damage from your E, so no, you don't want to fast combo, you want to lay down as much AA damage as possible while QWR are on CD. Depending on the build/comp it could be more useful to throw an AA in before using your W.

If you buy Lich like most do, you should be AAing every chance you get, not just throwing down abilities.

Bârd3 votes

If you're going for an assassination, it's not great.

If you're split pushing, clearing the jungle, or brawling, it's pretty good.

Nagoh Shan1 votes

I think people use her E way too soon. Especially people that build Lich Bane.

If you fast combo all her abilities, you have to ult a second time sans moonlight to proc Lich Bane again, and you lose sticking power that her E gives and a third LB proc, in a situation where people can't avoid your damage.

If you hold off on the E you get a potential third lich bane proc, and if someone tries to flash, your ult keeps you on them, and your E pulls them back now that their flash-less and trying to run away. All while giving you three more attacks at boosted AS.

Back when I used to play a lot of Diana (pre-rework) I know I converted a lot more kills when I followed the personal rule of "No E until after second ult" It wasn't optimal all the time, but it was a good guideline for me considering I'm not so mechanically strong as to be able to make that decision on the fly. It was, however, the right decision more often than not.

JarPoop IV1 votes

Well Diana wasn't intended to be an assassin. She was supposed to be a fighter. I like the idea of combining q and r tho, sorta like Lee sin. Just reduce the burst damage budget everywhere and put more into her duelist fighter budget eg atk spd or on hit skills

deadlychuck1 votes

Well Diana wasn't intended to be an assassin. She was supposed to be a fighter.

Literally every "assassin" in the game for more than 2 years.

Tristanl0l1 votes

i made this same thread when the diana changes were put on pbe.

https://i.imgur.com/nCHtxJS.png

Succubús GF1 votes

i have 163k :D

Tristanl0l1 votes

okay?

https://i.imgur.com/xXjZxqF.png

Succubús GF1 votes

Was just trying to share as a Diana player myself ;~;

Tristanl0l1 votes

oh okay mb mb you just came in here outta no-where saying you had higher mastery so i was like https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/199784352836616192/357987648327122944/irritated-man-with-hands-out-in-stop-gesture-picture-id183380336.png

Moon Mom1 votes

I have 1.5m :D.. lol.

Succubús GF1 votes

Omg :O I see you all the time on Diana threads >~< ilysm <3

deadlychuck1 votes

I'm just glad people haven't noticed how OP AD Diana is now.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

Not vs tanks and meta champs.

deadlychuck1 votes

She's better against tanks than AP diana and there will always be poor match ups, the meta list shifts faster than champion balancing.

Miraweave1 votes

It's not intended to help her burst. She's already got absurd burst. It makes you much better at winning extended fights and it makes you take towers obscenely quickly.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

Even with 2.5 attack speed, diana's cooldowns are too low to make full use of her passive -- it's okay to stack some of your abilities as long as you're not stacking all of them, and you'll still make full use of the passive.

Serika Zero1 votes

its for dps after you do your assassination. You can RWQ and then 1 auto attack for kill, then zhonias and proceed to do your dps afterwards.

people can say all they want "diana was never meant to be an assassin". But that's the only thing she ever did, the only thing she was good at, and the only thing she's still good at. But worse than other AP assassins sadly, and this is a result of the ap nerf to all ap items during the mage upgrade. That's when diana got hard nerfed :(

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PoWMwQ99,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2017-09-14T08:42:05.083+0000)

its for dps after you do your assassination. You can RWQ and then 1 auto attack for kill, then zhonias and proceed to do your dps afterwards.

people can say all they want "diana was never meant to be an assassin". But that's the only thing she ever did, the only thing she was good at, and the only thing she's still good at. But worse than other AP assassins sadly, and this is a result of the ap nerf to all ap items during the mage upgrade. That's when diana got hard nerfed :(

ok, but the weird thing is, riot doesnt want her to be an assassin. they consider her a dive fighter.

her attack speed passive is supposed to help her deal sustained damage. but her entire kit is kinda geared around quick bursting her target.

its weird.

Serika Zero1 votes

nobody gives a fuck about what riot wants. riot wanted Blitzcrank to be a top laner. Is he a top laner? riot wanted Mordekaiser to be a bot laner. Is he a bot laner? riot wanted Graves to be an adc. Is he an adc? riot wanted MissFortune to be an crit adc. Is she building like a crit adc?

This is like the meme of "It is me that's wrong? NOOOO, ITS THE KIDS!!!!"

Riot is having an identity crisis with themselves and in the process, they are fucking over several champions. Like, lets take Malzahar , riot wanted to make him a minionmancer (or a summoner), a type of hero that fights mostly with his pets. They failed. They also wanted Annie to be a mage, which failed again. And the list could go on and on :)

Sometimes they force a champion to take some role that they heavily intend that hero to have. Like, lets say Kindred which is forced to go jungle. She's either OP in top player ranks or she's absolute trash. That's what over forcing gets you.

They were supposed to design balanced kits (to some degree) and let the players figure out themselves the builds and the best role for that champion. As of the past years, they have decided that they know better than everyone else with their limited testing (if any) on roles and builds. Which lets us in the current situation.

Diana is a 'victim' of this. She's by all means an Assassin. The real deal. The type that goes in, burst the living shit out of her enemy and then has to escape (without a free get out of jail card like poster boy zed or ekko gets). But riot isn't content with that, so, they will alter her more and over or forget about diana all together if she[s not popular. That's the reality she's living in. I've quit maining Diana sadly, after the mage update. The huge amount of AP nerf on multiple items made bursting down the enemy mages or adc more difficult.

Before, if the adc or mage didn't build a single defensive item, I could one shot them even from behind when I got my 3 items power spike. Now I couldn't because I lacked damage. But I got worthless cdr wooooooooooooooooooo. Meanwhile the adc does burst per second to me >.> In many games we got comebacks or wins because I had wards in the right places which allowed me to see an adc/apc walk by themselves in an unsafe spot and go to assassinate them. Now, unless i've snowballed heavily ahead, its impossible.

And Diana has the worst laning phase out of all assassins. Why? Because she only gets a gap closer at lv 6. Akali gets her W at lv 2. Kata gets her E at lv 2. Ekko gets his E at lv 2. Zed gets his W at lv 2 or 3. Fizz gets his Q and E at lv 1,2 or 3........ Talon gets his Q and E at lv 1,2,3 So, its really hard to snowball heavily ahead unless the enemy mid laner is making a lot of mistakes.

Now back to Diana. Her recent buff was huge because it allowed her to still be useful even tho she can't execute her burst. If you are not confident you can burst the enemy carry. You can either split push or stay around your adc and when someone comes close, fight those with your adc providing focus fire. Ignoring the entire 'diver' concept out of the way and staying as a squishy fighter that fights for her adc master

Succubús GF1 votes

You... lost me

They also wanted Annie to be a mage, which failed again. And the list could go on and on :)

Serika Zero1 votes

she was top tier support for like a season or two :) even morgana that i've used to main mid, its supposed to be mid. But some players played her support so, she's mostly a support now

Succubús GF1 votes

So zyra, velkoz and brand.. Arent mages.. because they are played support? Annie's win rate is 45% in a support role. 51% in mid. So.. I'm confused

Serika Zero1 votes

yes, apparently you are. Annie is no longer played mostly as a support. She was for like 2 seasons. Then again, I've been around here for 4 years, so, i've seen a lot of bullshit.

Succubús GF1 votes

I remember annie support being played in like s4- s5 but that's about it o.o

Moon Mom1 votes

It's an additional part of her kit to help extended trades. It feels perfectly normal for me.

Kyunsei1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PoWMwQ99,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-13T17:32:16.772+0000)

if she hits enemy champions with her Q, she has a couple of seconds to right click one of the targets to immediately get in their face.

E should probably be switched around and worked into a new bigger ult effect, since its probably her biggest and most flashy ability.

Problem with that is then she's far too similar to Amumu. Many champions suffer from "being different then their alter ego" and have weird kit just to not be similar to other champs.

Like Ornn Q, can't be a knock-up slow pillar only cause Trundle already got this.

DemainaNyx1 votes

I'm pretty sure her attack speed passive is to help her clear the jungle, not to use in her kill combo.

Like with Lee Sin. Very rarely does a Lee ever ward hop, auto auto, E, auto auto, Q, auto auto, Ult, Q. You might squeeze an auto in there between abilities, but not both despite your passive giving you that.

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