I mean I get it, Colossus sucks to play against.
But how, particularly, is a keystone any different or more bad game design than a champion item synergy like, perhaps Athene's Ziggs. (season 4 Athene's)
Or just release Xin Zhao.
What specifically points to keystones being bad game design?
And before you get up in arms I'm not refuting anything you say I'm challenging you to persuade me.
RexSaur4 votesPpl around here actually think CoC is underpowered by the way and that tanks and anything melee are horribly underpowered.
Theres nothing wrong with keystones existing, as long as they arent so broken like CoC is now of course.
Critmaster Garen1 votesPpl around here actually think CoC is underpowered by the way and that tanks and anything melee are horribly underpowered.
Theres nothing wrong with keystones existing, as long as they arent so broken like CoC is now of course.
youre talking nonsense. really i havent seen anyone say CoC is too weak.
CoC is overpowered, though not by much. most fighters who cant use CoC are weak and die too quickly.
also, its one overpowered mastery in a generally shitty tree. the other 2 keystones are pretty terrible.
LiveYiOrDieHard3 votesIMO the main problem is the increased damage because of them. Damage has been insane since the start of season 6. If all damage in the game was cut by 10-20%, then they would be easier to balance.
Critmaster Garen2 votesthey overly synergize with certain champions, while some other champions dont even have a keystone to really synergize with.
Rock MD2 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnNXFhzw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-05T23:35:02.357+0000)
they overly synergize with certain champions, while some other champions dont even have a keystone to really synergize with.
But that's as inane as saying that items like, again, Athene's are bad game design because they synergized more with Ziggs than Viktor. That's awful reasoning. If they fostered unhealthy playstyles, that's another thing entirely and that needs to be addressed as such, and the item was changed repeatedly to achieve that.
I don't have a problem with APs losing so much AP because most of it was kept via Thunderlord's, and in fact it encourages you to actually hit them with something. That's why I feel it was good design after a few minor tweaks.
The only one that was/is really problematic from where I was standing was Stormraider's on a few champions (Ryze, Rengar) and Grasp.
A Doorknob1 votesI don't think runes and/or keystones are bad by design, it just makes the game that much harder to balance.
ChaddyFantome1 votesAthene's Ziggs.
Why the hell are you getting 
on Ziggs AT ALL, let alone instead of 
?
Rock MD3 votesWhy the hell are you getting
I should clarify S4 Athene's had 40 MR, 60 AP, 20% CDR, and you never ran out of mana. Ziggs and Orianna would buy it and in pro games the timer would go to 60-80 minutes. They just stalled and stalled and stalled.
That single champion is the reason melee minions are now empowered by baron to take almost no damage.
ChaddyFantome1 votes[{quoted}](name=Chairman Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnNXFhzw,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-12-06T01:08:17.505+0000)
I should clarify S4 Athene's had 40 MR, 60 AP, 20% CDR, and you never ran out of mana. Ziggs and Orianna would buy it and in pro games the timer would go to 60-80 minutes. They just stalled and stalled and stalled.
That single champion is the reason melee minions are now empowered by baron to take almost no damage.
yes in S4. hell in S3 it was standard on all mid laners unless u got tear. I was questioning why u would right now.
Rock MD1 votesyes in S4. hell in S3 it was standard on all mid laners unless u got tear. I was questioning why u would right now.
I'm simply asking how keystones are in the same vein of imbalance as Athene's from Season 4. If you're asking about right now, it's a different story.
if I bought Athene's on anyone that isn't Karma/Sona right now, I hope to God my team would report me for trolling.
ChaddyFantome1 votes[{quoted}](name=Chairman Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnNXFhzw,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-13T01:10:36.451+0000)
I'm simply asking how keystones are in the same vein of imbalance as Athene's from Season 4. If you're asking about right now, it's a different story.
if I bought Athene's on anyone that isn't Karma/Sona right now, I hope to God my team would report me for trolling.
Well on some champs sure, but i don't actually think there are any keystones that are objectively better than others. The almlst every champ can and do use at least 2 different kinds a substantial amount even use 3 or 4.