He feels meh unless he is fighting the villian atm or he catches somebody off guard later on in the game.
Do you think he should have the base movespeed nerf reverted or nah?
Critmaster Garen7 voteshe feels kinda slow and dependent on his team to get to the villain, but that was something they aimed for.
dunno, maybe a slight lategame buff to his spin damage? they could increase the isolation damage by 3% and see how that goes. so he can 1v1 people a bit better who arent the villain.
the bugfix they gave him was necessary but ended as a pretty big nerf. instead of dealing 1% of the villains damage in health on his spin, the formula used his own health. which means significantly less damage to squishies.
Bharhash12 votesHis spin already scales into the late game. If we take the bugfix into account, maybe a slight increase to its base damage. Maybe.
The biggest complaint against Garen as he was fresh off the Juggernaught patch was that if you did well against him in lane and killed him when you hit 6 (which is when a lot of champs get a power spike from ults), he could just teleport back into lane and nuke you down because you were the villain. Many saw it as a punishment for doing well.
MohawkBird14 votes[deleted]
rG Thundrag2 votesQuick! Now is my chance to rant about Irelia!
Sound familiar?
tenacity exists and while irelia can be semi frustrating she often doesn't burst unless you're a complete squishy.
It also didn't result generally in your immediate demise
MohawkBird3 votes[deleted]
Ralanr1 votesThe frustration of every shounen antagonist ever.
Auryiel4 votesIrelia's whole design is trash anyway
LadyRenly1 votesOf course someone had to bring that up. How about we just remove the slow and make E just always a stun, would that satisfy you?
TotalJerk1 votesI don't even understand why he does percent health true damage to villains in the first place. That's designed for tanks, and tanks aren't the champions that rack up loads of kills and have to be shut down.
MetalGearTeemu2 votesBut without tank villains how will he do the 34324342 true damage overkills when he ults them at 1 health that people come and complain on the forums about?
redniwediS4 votesAs a Garen main I would definitely be for a live test to see how reverting is move speed nerf would effect him, however if that nerf stays it won't be the end of the world.
He's in a spot where he's useful at most stages of the game for new players, but can still be a power house in the right hands, so I'm fine with it either way.
charcharmunro4 votesI feel like a tank's damage, if a tank even has damage, should never be bursty. It should either be low but sustained (
, 
), or high but unreliable/infrequent (
, 
).
DemaciaClown2 votesShyvana has both of these. Is balanced in the eyes of riot.
Marinaras Trench2 votesshyvanna doesn't get nearly as tanky though
Remlap12231 votesShyvana litearlly builds BORK and Ravenous Hydra, and then straight tank items. She doesn't need anything else because she gets cloth armor and a null magic mantle for free, turned to a chain vest and negatron cloak for free in her dragon form. Yeah, she's not as tanky as the hypertanks, but she still has burst damage, sustained damage, and an ungodly amount of damage resistance. If people were actually smart and built Ryali's on her, she'd be permabanned.
DemaciaClown1 votesYeah right. She gets devourer and bork and full tank. Most damage dealt/taken. And playing against her in one for all boiiiii thats annoying.
TotalJerk1 votesShe's gotten nerfed a few times. Any more and these boards would be complaining that it isn't Lee Sin and making tired sarcastic remarks about #LCSBIGPLAYS.
Jeddy0172 votesWell,Garen isn't a tank (he doesn't have enough CC to be one),he's a fighter.He always have & always will be one.
WarlockLaw1 votesMalphite is super bursty and reliable. Infrequent damage typically goes hand in hand with bursty damage
Munchauzens3 votesor nah.
But honestly, I haven't seen him enough to accurately gauge his current power level. He's still banned almost constantly at my level.
LatetotheRace3 votesI just want garen to be slowed when spinning. I mean, you try running 500 mms while spinning a large weapon around. Good luck with that.
rG Thundrag9 votesI just want garen to be slowed when spinning. I mean, you try running 500 mms while spinning a large weapon around. Good luck with that.
That was already attempted, garen was almost completely useless and had well below a 44% winrate on the PBE
LatetotheRace1 votes[{quoted}](name=rG Thundrag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pjisot2Y,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-10-20T22:57:10.265+0000)
That was already attempted, garen was almost completely useless and had well below a 44% winrate on the PBE
You can't base anything off of winrate. Especially in the PBE where most games aren't really taken seriously at all.
SaltyKracka1 votesYou actually can judge things by winrate (such as Lux needing nerfs or Garen not needing buffs), but PBE winrate in particular is worthless for balancing around.
LatetotheRace1 votesYou actually can judge things by winrate (such as Lux needing nerfs or Garen not needing buffs), but PBE winrate in particular is worthless for balancing around.
No, the idea that lux needed is a nerf is Hysterical. What really needed to happen is the meta shift to good mid laners. Not whatever the hell people play now adays.... cough cough Vel'koz, Ziggs, Xerath etc etc cough cough
SaltyKracka1 votesShe's currently at a 55% winrate and 12% playrate in Plat+.
She needs nerfs. That you think she doesn't need nerfs only proves that you are a blind fool.
Critmaster Garen8 votesYou can't base anything off of winrate. Especially in the PBE where most games aren't really taken seriously at all.
the self slow trashed him. there was no discussion about it. his kit was basically fighting itself.
they talked with high ranked garens mains who played his first iteration about the changes and they agreed, that the self slow was shit. people were just walking out of the spin.
they settled with reducing his spin damage instead when he hits multiple targets. which is much more reasonable. it still allows you to do your job, but people can use minions in lane to make trades more favourable for them.
TotalJerk1 votesI think it was intended to counteract Black Cleaver. Currently he pretty much has a constant 20 ms as long as he's hitting something with spin and 60 from Deadman's if he does it without autoing.
SociopathFriend1 votesIt's a flat nerf- why would it not make him worse?
Minions4eVeR2 votesI remember when Garen had decent base stats.
Eedat2 votesThe villain gimmick is the only thing that made Garen a pain to deal with. Garen's move speed buff, move speed buff duration, silence duration, and E damage (until level 16) all got nerfed actually
rG Thundrag1 votesThe villain gimmick is the only thing that made Garen a pain to deal with. Garen's move speed buff, move speed buff duration, silence duration, and E damage (until level 16) all got nerfed actually
You forgot to list they nerfed his hp and his late game tankyness as his old w while worse early game was far superior later in the game and even during mid game when you combined it with runes/defensive masteries and 1-2 defensive items.
Chromatic Eagle2 votesKeep in mind that some of his nerfs were the result of his ult passive being bugged. Not sure what buffs he needs.
SaltyKracka3 votesHe doesn't need any buffs.
Clown Apocalypse2 votesgaren was pretty fast. at level 6 if he cheeses you out of the bush with his q and spins on you while your flash is down he can pretty much 100-0 a squishy like teemo even if you were kicking his ass. That's assassin damage and speed on tank/bruiser. His passive is pretty overbearing too, with the right runes masteries and a dorans shield he can be pretty impossible to get out of lane in close matchups. I'd say he is fine where he is and actually still leaning towards needing some tweeking. He puts out entirely too much damage for the type of character he is with the type of sustain he has. He has counterplay and can be kited but he's so fast that if he pops out of a bush on you, you will never get away before your face melts as a squishy. And he's so hard to kill.
Lugg2 votesHe is too strong because he does a lot of damage for someone who is insanely tanky.
Jeddy0176 votesWell,that's the idea.He is a Juggernaut,tanky damage dealer who lacks CC & can only reach their targets by walking up to them.
TotalJerk1 votesHere's the problem with Juggernauts: 
all exist.
Jeddy0172 votesWell duh.Juggernauts should rely on teammates to help them to their targets,that's called teamwork.Those things you list synergies well with the Juggernauts. Problem is that only give temporary speed boosts,they're still susceptible to Cc & getting kited.
TotalJerk1 votesA champion's sole weakness shouldn't be entirely removed by a single champion throwing a buff on them. There's a reason Gnarvan got nerfed, the NA LCS was as at a point where if the other team picked Jarvan or Gnar, you were forced to pick the one they didn't pick to prevent that free combo.
Lugg1 votesSilence is CC. He also has a huge MS bonus to close gaps.
Jeddy0171 votesBy lack,I meant small amount & 1 CC that can only affect one target & require him to get close to said target in the first place.I should also mention his one CC was nerfed with his update (it use to scale up from 1.5 to 2.5,now it's just a flat 1.5).
And the MS bonus can easily be negated by CC-ing him.Yes,it removes slows when he activates it,but he's not Yi or Olaf.Just slow him after he activates his Q.And a MS bonus is not going help him catch mobile targets unless they already been CC-ed or their mobility abilities are on cooldown.He still running at his target & susceptible to terrain,he can go over a wall to catch a Leblanc.
Lugg1 votesYeah, you can get away from Garen, but that doesn't change the fact that he has zoned you out and that you aren't going to kill him.
Krinu1 votesThe part I have issues with is how bloody hard it is to actually kill him. Between his passive and his ability to FORWARD away from me, he can disengage better than most champions.
HayRoss1 votesI'd say he's fine exactly where he is
FantasySniper1 votesThe movespeed gave Garen too good of an initiate and escape, so it made sense to make sure he built beefy instead of... Bony? (Is that right?)
After all, his purpose/power is supposed to be in his survivability, not his mobility.
TotalJerk1 votesIf Garen gets anything buffed, he should definitely get that damned passive toned down at 16 to compensate.
Celeste Benal1 votesHis move speed bonuses are ridiculous. He's a Juggernaut. Not Speed Racer.
Greymoore1 votesI think it was his R passive because of the bug
Good thing i am feeding away and you have so much ap