well, theyre not picking it up anyways. so can we change it back to a 4% max health bonus?
even IF an adc would go into resolve (and thats a big if, since theyre almost always going into cunning). they would still go for runic armor to get more out of their lifesteal.
Rebonack18 votesI'm pretty sure it got altered so it wouldn't turn champs who pick up Cinder into unstoppable flesh-hulks.
The stuff about making it more attractive early game was just an attempt to make the pill a bit less bitter.
Do you really want to deal with Raidboss Mundo again?
Critmaster Garen24 votesI'm pretty sure it got altered so it wouldn't turn champs who pick up Cinder into unstoppable flesh-hulks.
The stuff about making it more attractive early game was just an attempt to make the pill a bit less bitter.
Do you really want to deal with Raidboss Mundo again?
no, the official statement was, that the mastery was changed so its a better mastery for squishies like adc, as they immediately get a bit of flat health for early trades.
also, i dealt with mundo recently. he ragequit after i started to shit on him with an executioners calling.
Dracocrash4 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PjasQ7l6,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-05-06T16:15:32.296+0000)
no, the official statement was, that the mastery was changed so its a better mastery for squishies like adc, as they immediately get a bit of flat health for early trades.
also, i dealt with mundo recently. he ragequit after i started to shit on him with an executioners calling.
This mastery was nerfed back when mundo was top pick. Riots reasoning to nerf this was to give tanks a better early game but a worse late game. Another reason they provided was, they wanted to discourage adc's from going down the thunderlords tree. Since if you went down that tree you would not be able to go down the tank tree.
The most robust of the new trees, Resolve’s multiplicative scaling for tanks is simply too high across the board. We’re reducing the effectiveness of the class at the mastery level while adding flat-health options for squishies who actually want some defense, even if they’re not stacking it Source : http://oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-524-notes
blkKalameet2 votesMundo only got to that high of rank because people only wanted to build crit on every adc. they wouldn't build the last whisper items, they wouldn't build Bork.
they would build ie, static shive, and phantom dancer then complain about him out healing the damage and never understand why he could.
it's the same reason why Rammus got nurfed. Everybody would go ad, but never bothered to build pen.
AlwaysByMySide2 votesMundo only got to that high of rank because people only wanted to build crit on every adc. they wouldn't build the last whisper items, they wouldn't build Bork.
they would build ie, static shive, and phantom dancer then complain about him out healing the damage and never understand why he could.
it's the same reason why Rammus got nurfed. Everybody would go ad, but never bothered to build pen.
Why do people make this lie?
ADCs most common builds have included LW items since pre-season started, both when Mundo and Rammus were massive over-performing.
It Hertz When IP1 votesBefore screaming "liar liar" at each other, you may want to check ELOs. I can tell you it's rare at the high bronze-low silver levels to see an ADC build a LW item without someone having to tell them to.
blkKalameet1 votesbecause I've never had an adc in any of my games build it. I got to be one of the people using these "strong" champs, even tho there only strength was only having to stack armor because everybody is ad.
and when they do get around to grabbing it, is only at 5th item at the soonest.
they prioritize dueling power over object control and dealing with the tank, you know the string points of the adc.
OyddAWqJ5r1 votesThe new pen items are pretty badass now too. 
absolutely destroys tanks.
Most people avoid it because the build path sucks. Ofcourse 
kinda sucks now, but people underestimate 
. If people would build that first then go for they'd see how viable it really is.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesAs if you would need that LDR as adc. Even with 200 armor, any adc with IE and PD or RFC or Shiv just melts through my tank.
ImmortalBloodCY2 votesThey wouldnt build 
or 
and very little mages built 
.
But now with the changes on alot of mages will build it.
That's the main reason mundo was top pick back then.
AlwaysByMySide16 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PjasQ7l6,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-05-06T16:15:32.296+0000)
no, the official statement was, that the mastery was changed so its a better mastery for squishies like adc, as they immediately get a bit of flat health for early trades.
also, i dealt with mundo recently. he ragequit after i started to shit on him with an executioners calling.
"The most robust of the new trees, Resolve’s multiplicative scaling for tanks is simply too high across the board. We’re reducing the effectiveness of the class at the mastery level while adding flat-health options for squishies who actually want some defense, even if they’re not stacking it"
No, they certainly intended to nerf its scaling for tanks.
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PjasQ7l6,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2016-05-07T05:28:56.581+0000)
"The most robust of the new trees, Resolve’s multiplicative scaling for tanks is simply too high across the board. We’re reducing the effectiveness of the class at the mastery level while adding flat-health options for squishies who actually want some defense, even if they’re not stacking it"
No, they certainly intended to nerf its scaling for tanks.
thats weird, because i remember a rioter comment on the boards, that it was changed to give adc a reason to go into resolve. that was the original statement when the change was on the pbe, before the patch was released.
there were a lot of discussions about it at the time, and mundo, or tanks were 100% not the reason they mentioned.
edit.: apparantly it was both
Yo, I've been working on the changes to masteries with Squad5 and Stashu so thought I'd pop in and give some context.
There are 2 goals with the Veteran's scars changes this patch:
- lower the degree to which tanks are hyperscaling with items.
- As Repertoir mentioned, make the tier 2 resolve tree more attractive to other classes who don't buy tons of health.
the initial talk from riot repertoir was only about making resolve more attractive to people who dont stack health.
Spoofghoul2 votesyea to reduce tanks ''multiplicative scaling'' whatever the hell that is is
did riot mean how building more amor makes any armor you currently have worth less or does he mean when you stack a pile of health it wotn matter because everyone, their mother, their grandmother and the kitchensink has %hp damage and acces to alot more through items.
tanks don't even have multiplicative scaling. they and their items get weaker the longer the game goes on, can't really call that scaling
Hullabaloo9072 votesMultiplicative scaling is essentially whenever something adds a percentage. Also, building more armor doesn't make the armor you have worth less. Look up effective health
Spoofghoul1 votesso you are saying armor does not give diminshing returns the more you buy of it?
TehNACHO2 votesAhem.
Armor does not give diminishing returns the more of it you buy.
Irelia Bot2 votesso you are saying armor does not give diminshing returns the more you buy of it?
Technically 1 armor is 1% more effective health.
The issue is that you get 100 bonus armor for 2000 gold and you lose 45 armor to the effects of LDR meaning you have 900 gold value nullified for effectively 2/3rds of that cost.
This is why Health is currently usually better since it's only pure counter is % health true damage for which vayne and Fiora are not being played anymore.
TehNACHO1 votes...
You...really don't understand how math works do you?
ImmortalBloodCY1 votesAgreed, they changed it for squishies like ADC mostly.
No Mage/support takes it only juggernauts/brawlers and tanky assasins/junglers do.
FalconPawwwwnch7 votesMundo gets way more EHP from the 8% healing buff sooooo
Idk what you're on
Spoofghoul2 voteslike mundo was a problem. . .
seriously if people would just grab 
he wouldn't even be a small problem, and since last patche we can also grab 
It Hertz When IP1 votesI don't know about Liandry's, the damage on it is as a DoT so at the most it'd just neutralize his passive when he's near full health. Given that he almost always builds SV, Void staff would probably be a better use of that slot.
Spoofghoul1 voteseh you realize you will need to grab voidstaff regardless vs mundo, you take the liandries in addition to the voidstaff and morellos to make sure you can get him below 35% hp and keep him there.
just pray your adc is smart enough to grab botrk and mortal reminder so you can kill the guy.
because lets face it, if you play a mage the best you can do is try and get him low, your not going to kill mundo as a mage period. its probably better to use your range to focus someone else and use your second rotation to hit mundo to have morello's apply grievous wounds.
You grab the liandries just so you can actually get him low if no one else will.
junglerboy161 votesMundo got slammed with a lot of hefty nerfs (direct and indirect, including major early game ult CD nerfs, nerfs to his cleaver damage, major nerfs to his E early game, buffing of LW and its upgrades, nerfing of his core tank items like SV, Deadman's). Buffing veterans scars is so minor in comparison to what he and other tanks have been hit by since preseason that it would only make it comparable to other masteries anyway.
Also, Mundo took Runic armor over veteran's scars anyway.
Irelia Bot1 votesI'm pretty sure it got altered so it wouldn't turn champs who pick up Cinder into unstoppable flesh-hulks.
The stuff about making it more attractive early game was just an attempt to make the pill a bit less bitter.
Do you really want to deal with Raidboss Mundo again?
With Mortal reminder being in the game kinda.
God Raijin14 votesyou do realize that they were just saying that as a cop-out to nerf tanks right?
Critmaster Garen4 votes[{quoted}](name=God Raijin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PjasQ7l6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-06T16:10:17.536+0000)
you do realize that they were just saying that as a cop-out to nerf tanks right?
well. they didnt say that, so officially there is no reason not to revert it.
The Blue Rajah3 votesThey actually did. Go read that patch note again.
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PjasQ7l6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-06T16:11:03.629+0000)
well. they didnt say that, so officially there is no reason not to revert it.
riot never goes back on a live rework.
It might be 'reworked into something similar' but if they ever did a reversion then it would be considered a sign of weakness, and the younglings would challenge the great rito pantheon- their fathers - for their positions.
The Yetii Rider1 votesThey definitely said it was to nerf tanks, from the beginning.
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PjasQ7l6,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2016-05-08T01:35:07.252+0000)
They definitely said it was to nerf tanks, from the beginning.
this wasnt the first riot post though. repertoir first talked about that the mastery was changed so its more attractive for non health stackers.
gypsilord then said it was both to nerf tanks and to make the mastery more attractive to squishies.
i probably havent read that last statement, thats why i remembered it like that.
The Yetii Rider1 votesRegardless, I was replying to a post where you said that they never stated it was a nerf, so they had no reason to revert it.
Gypsylord was very frank in his discussion. (I believe there was also talk about how powerful a mastery of that tier was allowed to be, another reason to nerf it).
Regardless, the multiplicative health scaling will not be returning. It's fine, every tank can use the regen amp, because tanks have high base regen and build regen items like SV and Zz'rot.
Lord Galvatron2 votesI'm fully aware that it is ok on certain champions to get, but I NEVER use it in my masteries (and I'm a top main go figure). +45 Health…… rly? Honestly it's that v.s 8% increased effectiveness of shields and ALL HEALING. You might as well have Veterans Scar's just put a New York Yankees baseball cap on my champions head, and it would provably have a greater impact in my games.
MEMEME6702 votesHave you actually done the math on it?
You need 562.5 hp worth of healing//shields for an 8% increase to provide you with 45 extra. That's a lot, especially early game, which is often when the veteran's scars mastery is better.
morris13 votesExcept Cloth 4 does just that. Same thing goes for Long Sword 3 if you have biscuits.
MEMEME6701 votesSo it's a little better if you use all your pots before you back, and then worse when you come back to lane if you don't buy pots, assuming you don't have a lot of healing in your kit.
Still seems like a pretty solid mastery.
Dealth1 votesI'd rather have them just buff the flat amount to 60
Davy Crockett1 votesbronze 5 unranked scrub adc player, my adc page is 18/0/12 with runic armor/veteran scars so. you tell me. i dont get why players dont use resolve masteries on carries more.
Secretlolz1 votesCunning makes more sense and yields stronger results.
Easier last hitting for one. Then the biscuits, that provide massive healing. Then the 5% increased damage on low health targets. ADC = Damage Then the 5% missing HP and Mana Restore on kill or assist. which I personally think It's too strong because it will easily cloud out any other options.
NazZomLord1 votes
Old 
Veterans Scars along with Max% Health in runes. "Why do i feel...nothing." Literally you could have 5k health with over 250 in both defenses. One of the largest pains to deal with. Along with decent base damages and presence.
Enrovy1 votesor maybe a split between flat and bonus, or just taking the higher value, of flat and percentage
Dengeden1 votesA surprising amount of champions of every variety are taking it. Look at the most successful masteries on chamion.gg.
Kensue1 votes[deleted]
Sum Wun Speshal1 votesI'm afraid that would make the game a lot more boring. I would be pretty sad about it for instance.
I suck at League but items, masteries and runes are the only things I feel knowledgable about.
