Janna at a 55% winrate and 20% pickrate even after Ardent Nerfs

Akali is SO HOT·Aug 28, 2017·80 votes·3,672 views

I think it's time to actually nerf her.

96 Comments

Mens Hair ClubAug 28, 201738 votes

ardent nerfs were nothing lol

janna gotta get some skill added to her

SdarsAug 29, 20171 votes

Would be cool if rito took away a lot of that hidden power and put it into something cool like her Q also working like old Galio's E, where he would speed up allies in the area.

MadraAug 29, 201711 votes

Riot has been nerfing Janna's "Hidden Power" since Season 1. After all these years, I'm surprised that she has any hidden power left. I would have thought everyone knows what she does. Watching the LCS recently, the Pros certainly seem to be more interested in champions with power that comes in a less hidden format; like Thresh...

Why Janna has a high win rate is because of a variety of things, and I can guarantee you that none of it is all that well hidden.

Coin gives too much gold for an item that allows for such passive early gameplay; and that later only relies on showing up in lane with a big creep wave. Janna is very fast but all supports should be building mobis. 2) ADCs have too much built in sustain early on that makes it hard to punish Janna's ADC thoroughly enough to gain an early game advantage. 3) ADC itemization is very strong right now; Ardent Censer wasn't nerfed meaningfully. 4) The way these new items all stack together. If the jungler has Knight's Vow, the ADC has Death's Dance or Phantom Dancer + Guardian Angel, and there is a Janna building/playing entirely to keep that ADC alive; you are going to have to find a way to win early if your support/team comp isn't capable of itemizing the same way.

If they wanted to hit Janna specifically, reducing the cast range of her shield is probably the way to do it, since she wouldn't be able to play so far behind the back lines as she does. But you would have to seriously consider not having her lose her passive speed boost for casting W- a squishy champion with mobis shouldn't become a sitting duck for actually utilizing her kit.

I'd honestly wait for ADCs to get put into a "good spot" before I think any major nerfs to Janna would be warranted. Probably more than any other champion in the game, Janna relies on a strong ADC to justify her existence and everyone seems to think that ADCs are out of balance right now.

It Hertz When IPAug 29, 20175 votes

^^ This. Janna's strength is usually tied pretty heavily to the strength of ADCs; I'd say them and some of the support items need tuning first.

rtbf225618241Aug 29, 20171 votes

Summarizes the entire issue with Janna - skill expression through more than subtle game knowledge tied to her kit and items.

FrightningAug 28, 201729 votes

This not surprising, but it's worth noting that she's usually been below 55% win rate for a very long time. It seems to me, that Janna is strong right now because she the best support at protecting carries from being engaged on and bursted down. Her entire kit is made of peel and shield/heals. This together with how ridiculously high ADC damage output is nowadays and it's no surprise that she is increasing in win rate. 'Protect the carry' is especially strong right now, and Janna is the queen of doing just that.

AninLegions777Aug 28, 201710 votes

by "below 55% winrate", you mean between 51% to 54% winrate. Also, her heals and shields weren't as strong until the Forbidden idol passive was introduced.

Sugar MommaAug 28, 20178 votes

Exactly. People acting like she hasn't ever been a strong to very strong pick the past couple years are either ignorant or being deceptive.

AninLegions777Aug 28, 20174 votes

She's been OP since release. A lot of people on boards speak like they just started playing last year.

Magical ZoeAug 28, 20174 votes

She's never been this relevant is what other people are saying.

Akali is SO HOTAug 28, 20176 votes

She has always been this relevant. She's never dropped below a 51% winrate

Voluug13Aug 28, 201712 votes

You know who always had higher winrate pre-rework? Malz.

Didnt mean he was ''relevant'' in the meta pre-rework.

Janna is only as strong as the adc she is nursing. The moment Riot nerfs adcs its gonna be the moment Janna drops.

AninLegions777Aug 29, 20172 votes

Drops to 51% winrate. Wow. Such a bad stat. /s

Magical ZoeAug 29, 20173 votes

Let me rephrase, no one has BITCHED about her this much until all these busted support items came into play.

FrightningAug 29, 20171 votes

Oh I know, she's always been good. Just very interesting to me that ADCs being stronger has improved her performance as well (the last direct changes she had were, iirc, nerfs to her Q damage and size). Shows how win rates aren't just a measure of champion's individual balance state, but also a function of the overall state of the game and how they fit into that picture.

AninLegions777Aug 29, 20171 votes

Of course there are other factors affecting winrates. But when a champ still has an above avg winrate even after tons of balance updates, then there's a problem.

FrightningAug 31, 20171 votes

Agreed, but my point also is that this problem is being exacerbated by the ridiculous strength of ADCs atm.

KoKobotoAug 28, 201719 votes

Janna doesn't need nerfs.

She needs a rework. Obviously she is too strong whenever she comes into meta because her kit is just that simple and lacks gameplay.

#JANNAREWORK2K18

TyroneWatermelonAug 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Janna doesn't need nerfs.

She needs a rework. Obviously she is too strong whenever she comes into meta because her kit is just that simple.

##JANNAREWORK2K18

She needs huge nerfs UNTIL the rework. you can't just leave her overpowered for years until a rework. She deserves to be Aatrox'd (left in the dust almost since release until a small rework where he became just decent). also caitlyn deserves it.

KoKobotoAug 28, 20177 votes

Gasp! I wouldn't wish Aatrox on even my worst enemy!

NyarlathοtepAug 28, 201711 votes

That awkward moment when janna is one of the most nerfed champs in the whole game, and the reason for this winrate is the adcs. Supps like janna have their winrate heavily affected by how well their adcs fare.

Asayake 5150glowAug 28, 201717 votes

{quoted}

That awkward moment when janna is one of the most nerfed champs in the whole game, and the reason for this winrate is the adcs. Supps like janna have their winrate heavily affected by how well their adcs fare.

...Then why aren't the supports she's facing doing just as well as her?

notice me Sin piAug 28, 201725 votes

supports like Leona Alistar and to some extent Lulu Soraka are designed to be able to support all other teammates, n that's where their power budget got distributed away from marksmen.

Janna , on the other side, is designed almost entirely around marksmen, n thats where her power budget goes.

NyarlathοtepAug 28, 20172 votes

Read what NOTICE ME SIN PI says. Thats why.

SelluriahAug 28, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PguX41AY,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-08-28T18:52:31.537+0000)

...Then why aren't the supports she's facing doing just as well as her?

Sona: 53.90% winrate Soraka: 52.93% winrate Taric: 52.01% winrate

The reason why the others supports aren't doing so well is that they are more team oriented instead of full on MUST PROTECT ADC oriented. That being said, they have some pretty decent winrates as is.

Dream HighAug 28, 201710 votes

She's an enabler, her win rate is dependent on how stronng adcs are. On top of her needing no skill to be effective with.

Blessed DeathAug 29, 20179 votes

Interesting suggestion given the information that you provided. Did a little research on both Janna and the Ardent Censer and found this interesting information.

For Janna, um...well, couldn't find any significant buffs or changes in the last year, unless you count her MR growth increasing from 0 to 0.5 significant.

For the Ardent Censer, the last time it received a buff was back in 7.2(Jan 25th 2017) where these changes were made

Bonus attack speed on heals and shields increased to 20% - 35% (based on level) from 20%.
Attack health drain on-hit on heals and shields increased to 20 - 35 (based on level) from 20.

Now that Censer buff happened way back in Jan/Feb, 6 months ago and was just reduced down to 25% and 25 respectively which means it's now only a net 5%/5 buff. Where exactly were all the calls for nerfs in March/April/May? I don't remember hearing any.

What exactly changed from then until now that could have caused all the hoopla recently I wonder....

Akali is SO HOTAug 29, 20171 votes

Riot said they weren't nerfing her because they wanted to see how things panned out with the Ardent nerfs before hitting her kit. She still has a 55% winrate so clearly the nerf to Ardent didn't do anything meaning that it wasn't the problem with Janna.

4th3t0sAug 29, 20177 votes

1 week has barely even passed since the nerfs, calm your tits

Edit: Also, quit ignoring the meta having shifted favorably for her. Like it's been said before, she doesn't win games, she stops you from losing. ADC's are currently overtuned, items like censer are overloaded, and she REQUIRES a competent ADC to give her any chance for her to help snowball. She's literally the only champion pigeonholed into support who does next to nil damage and relies EXCLUSIVELY on peeling for her team; if her team is shit, she's useless.

Ren ExAug 29, 20177 votes

if her team is shit, she's useless

This is the one thing that I wish people would get through their heads. I play a lot of Janna, and, yes, she is braindead simple to play at a basic level. There's no real special mechanics to master, besides leading tornadoes and learning how to do the isolation combo. She's incredibly one-dimensional, and VERY good at what she does: Protecting her team from the enemy, not themselves.

Janna can stop a play dead in its tracks, but she can't force a team to win a game. I can stop that Rengar from blowing up my ADC, but I can't make my ADC win a fight outright like a Thresh, Braum, or Leona can. I enable my teams to have a chance at the fights, but I can't stop them from making shitty decisions. I can save your ass, but I can't make plays.

Janna's winrate is so stupid right now because of the meta we're in. Protect the ADC, with 2-3 tank teams? This is a Janna's dream. A beefy, slow moving frontline with easy to peel threats to my main sources of damage make my job 100x easier. The moment that the Tank/Protect the ADC meta is gone, Janna's winrate will dip back down to her usual place, without the meta and items inflating it. I mean, after all this time, before Tanks and Protect the ADC became the focus of gameplay, she wasn't obscenely broken. She was just good at peeling.

SelluriahAug 28, 20177 votes

It's not janna that needs nerfs LOL. Nobody was complaining about her earlier in the season. Why? Because janna is strong when adcs are strong (remember ADC in 2017 LUL?). Her whole kit revolves around keeping adcs alive to do damage. Ardent was pretty op but not the main problem. It's adcs that need nerfs, not Janna. Crit got cheaper and adcs are no longer getting cucked by assassin meta. All you people want to do is nerf Janna to the ground, then when the meta shifts to where it's ADC in 2018 LUL, Janna will be worthless and you won't bat an eye.

AninLegions777Aug 28, 20174 votes

Lool. I've been complaining about Janna for a long time now. She's broken. Never gone below 50% winrate no matter her play rate. Has only one skillshot. Kit is binary AF. She needs a whole new rework.

TyroneWatermelonAug 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

It's not janna that needs nerfs LOL. Nobody was complaining about her earlier in the season. Why? Because janna is strong when adcs are strong (remember ADC in 2017 LUL?). Her whole kit revolves around keeping adcs alive to do damage. Ardent was pretty op but not the main problem. It's adcs that need nerfs, not Janna. Crit got cheaper and adcs are no longer getting cucked by assassin meta. All you people want to do is nerf Janna to the ground, then when the meta shifts to where it's ADC in 2018 LUL, Janna will be worthless and you won't bat an eye.

by spamming "LUL" we can tell you are butthurt and very defensive about her. the fact that she had above average winrate and playrate for a few seasons despite requiring literally no skill to play show that she's overpowered. she was always complained on, but the rapid janna complaints are because she was never that strong for a few season now

SelluriahAug 29, 20171 votes

Know your memes buddy. ADC in 2016 LUL is a meme.

VeltoxAug 29, 20171 votes

It's quite shitty though. They have been mediocre for like 2 months and then it became a meme.

AenaeusAug 28, 20176 votes

She has a 45% ban rate too lmao.

Dextix LTAug 29, 20176 votes

Sigh..... You do realize that her power is directly affected by adc's, right?

If adc's are op, then she is also. Look at the root of the problem.

BlåbæretAug 29, 20176 votes

This.

People are just too dumb to see the big picture.

Ariel the CruelAug 29, 20171 votes

Incoming: Janna nerf #287.

And as usual, it won't change much. (>_>)

Dextix LTAug 29, 20172 votes

I can say it to everyone here. Even if you took away ALLdamage janna has and make her do 0 damage, just have her defensives. She would still be the most popular and best support because of her kit strenght.

Ariel the CruelAug 29, 20171 votes

I don't know about "most popular" or "best." But she would still be S tier.

DoodlzzzAug 28, 20174 votes

janna is strong because all the meta ad carries synergize super well with her

Baron PerenoldeAug 29, 20174 votes

Good luck getting that one off the ground, the Janna Defense Force is as rabid as the Ahri one.

Athenes LuluAug 29, 20173 votes

"ardent nerfs"

lol theyre not even nerfs

MadraAug 29, 20173 votes

I think the people asking for Janna to be reworked haven't been paying attention to the general trend that Riot has gone with their reworks. They may turn her shield into a skill shot but it will end up slowing everyone around the recipient of it and her howling gale will be ground targeted like a Rumble ult.

RaoulAug 28, 20171 votes

the nerfs to Adrent were a joke. YOu still give an incredible amount of stat value to your whole team. This Item has to GO AWAY! No Item should allow you to give you whole team over 1k gold worth of stats per buffed champion.

That means in a teamfight, Janna can give the whole team a 5k gold advantage over the enemy team. And that is AFTER NERFS and only for those who CANT use the lifesteal.

FairyfleurAug 28, 20174 votes

Or we could nerf ADCarries instead of blaming it on Ardent Censer

GayFluffyUnicornAug 28, 20171 votes

???? Have you ANY idea how ridiculous ardent is? Like one game i had an actual intelligent support who used his ardent exclusively on me as jax, i could literally jump into five people, heal off and beat them to death and that vs lulu kog maw. This item is plain broken and that joke nerf from riot certainly wasn't enough,

FairyfleurAug 28, 20174 votes

Have you ANY idea how ridiculous ADCs are too?

DuskDaUmbreonAug 28, 20172 votes

I have a perfect idea of how ridiculous both ADCs and Ardent are.

They're about as broken as Aatrox. Meaning: Not at all.

What you're seeing is a meta where both enchanters and the ADCs they synergize best with are viable, shortly after many popular assassins were generally nerfed.