Familiar Faces in the Tier List. Why weren't they nerfed?

Fraggleroc·Jul 2, 2017·2 votes·522 views

http://www.metasrc.com/all/5v5/current/tierlist?ranks=all

How far do they need to go before they deserve a nerf? Everyone of these is a cancer to play against.

This balancing behavior is about to make a 7yrs player quit the game. The balance team gets all these data in their head and fails to see the big picture. They wrap themselves all over the data and whatnot and refuse to see the game for what it is.

Tunnel-visioned book-smarts should not be in the balance team. Because it is also about Quality of Life.

It's like people studying to Double Masters to become idiots.

/rant

27 Comments

RewtJul 2, 20172 votes

I like how Yi is the in "strong" catagory.

I just saw that this is saying that Jungle Taliyah is almost as strong as Jungle Rek Sai..... sorry but I kind have lost the respect of this "Tier List"

AFilthyCaitMainJul 2, 20171 votes

Nidalee is pretty good rn too

FragglerocJul 2, 20171 votes

And to all the idiots who downvote thinking this guy is crazy... U think u're smarter than others, don't you?

Well, Meddler is full of shit... he can't balance a pen if his life depends on it.

Studying, Examining, Researching... while Quality of Life goes down the drain. Failing to see what's in front of their eyes.

AFilthyCaitMainJul 2, 20171 votes

Wow youve got an ego

FragglerocJul 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Wow youve got an ego

If I have an ego.. What about the Balance Team? Talking about ego... /spit

Critmaster GarenJul 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And to all the idiots who downvote thinking this guy is crazy... U think u're smarter than others, don't you?

Well, Meddler is full of shit... he can't balance a pen if his life depends on it.

Studying, Examining, Researching... while Quality of Life goes down the drain. Failing to see what's in front of their eyes.

you made a mistake.

you flattened out the champions across all ratings.

http://www.metasrc.com/all/5v5/current/tierlist?ranks=platinum,diamond,master,challenger

here is the real list. these ratings are considered into champion balance. everything else is irrelevant unless youre dealing with an extreme case.

you could even remove plat and end up with decent enough data.

http://www.metasrc.com/all/5v5/current/tierlist?ranks=diamond,master,challenger

FragglerocJul 2, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PgJRAh9y,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-07-02T22:00:29.694+0000)

you made a mistake.

you flattened out the champions across all ratings.

http://www.metasrc.com/all/5v5/current/tierlist?ranks=platinum,diamond,master,challenger

here is the real list. these ratings are considered into champion balance. everything else is irrelevant unless youre dealing with an extreme case.

you could even remove plat and end up with decent enough data.

http://www.metasrc.com/all/5v5/current/tierlist?ranks=diamond,master,challenger

And that is the minority of players... Why would u balance a game based around those ranks?

Most players would never even see those ranks. They only see what's in front of them.

Critmaster GarenJul 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And that is the minority of players... Why would u balance a game based around those ranks?

Most players would never even see those ranks. They only see what's in front of them.

plat and diamond arent impossible to accomplish for most players. it just takes time.

the reason why youd balance the game around those divisions only, is that individual mistakes and lack of game knowledge in general outweight any gameplay related balance youre trying to create for the lower divisions anyways.

its a fight against windmills. you cant anticipate the average stupidity, strategic ignorance and constant misplays of individual players to balance your game.

ive literally just seen a bronze 4 jinx ask for garen nerfs, because the guy posted a video about him running face first into a fed full ad garen.

you really want to try and balance the game around these people? and they make up half the player population.

you have to draw the line somewhere where is up to the player to learn the mechanics of the game and not to riot to balance around your incompetence, and plat is still quite generous in that regard.

FragglerocJul 2, 20171 votes

ive literally just seen a bronze 4 jinx ask for garen nerfs, because the guy posted a video about him running face first into a fed full ad garen.

you really want to try and balance the game around these people? and they make up half the player population.

And that Jinx is correct. Life is hard for her fighting against that Garen. So there had to be a problem somewhere. It means there's a problem with Garen in the lower elos. U can't simply ignore the lower elos.

Let me tell u- There will be some people who will never see Gold rank even- But it does not mean u do not account for them. That is the basis of Life. Or are u too high and mighty to see that truth?

Why would u not balance the game for half your player population? Because That is Half your player population.

Would a country put 50% in some high tier investment and leave only 10% to invest in something like General Medicine needed for the welfare of its General population?

Everyone thinks they're smarter than the collective average mind.

Critmaster GarenJul 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And that Jinx is correct. Life is hard for her fighting against that Garen. So there had to be a problem somewhere.

the problem is with the player who hasnt learned to actually play the game.

FragglerocJul 2, 20171 votes

the problem is with the player who hasnt learned to actually play the game.

And why would u omit those players? There will always be players who just started out. Why do u not want to keep those players? It does not make business sense even.

Every tier of players have their own set of problems.

That is Life. And u need to do your best to account for all tiers.

Right now, most of the lower tiers, that is the majority of the population are upset - when they see champs like Yasuo zipping around them- They had no choice but to join them- Play Yasuo and the problem becomes infinitely larger - That's why he has that ban rate.

Why would u let problems escalate to that level? So that u can become a good politician?

To try to be politically correct to all tiers of players?

Critmaster GarenJul 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And why would u omit those players?

for the same reason were not holding back olympic athletes because the average joe wants to be able to compete with them.

you want the game to go well and climb, you put efford into learning its mechanics and strategies and improve your gameplay. otherwise be content with where you are.

u need to do your best to account for all tiers.

you cant.

FragglerocJul 2, 20171 votes

for the same reason were not holding back olympic athletes because the average joe wants to be able to compete with them.

you want the game to go well and climb, you put efford into learning its mechanics and strategies. otherwise be content with where you are.

you cant.

The problem is your olympic athletes (pros) are playing in a different field compared to your average players.

LCS will NEVER be the same as SoloQ.

Then have 2 sets of balance. IF that is too much resources to devote to... you'll need to sacrifice one set of players. U should always sacrifice the Olympians for the majority.

Olympians aren't even playing champs such as Yasuos... would it even affect them that much? Sure we all want to see a Christiano Rinaldo of Yasuo in the future... who is able to display the full skills of what that champ is capable of.

But right now that champion is CANCER- what u'll most likely see is a Christiano Rinaldo of Clubbing-Cute-Seals....

DO u really want to see an Expert in Clubbing Cute Seals all day? Penguins, maybe... but SEALS?!

edit: I prefer seals to penguins

U know there are oversized Olympic-sized swimming pools and there are our normal swimming pools.

FragglerocJul 2, 20171 votes

I'm not smart but I can see things for what it is. I'm not raised to be book smart- in a rough family...

But it is easy to tell which champions are cancer to play against... Very few changes can make Quality of Life of players infinitely better.

FragglerocJul 2, 20171 votes

I don't know how to be politically-correct and I only know how to tell it straight in the face...

When u play against a Yasuo who zips around infinitely- That is CANCER When u play against a Riven with her cancerous shield - That is CANCER also When u play against current Zac as a jungler- That is CANCER

You don't need scientists in the Balance Team. JUST FKING PLAY MORE ON ALL LEVELS.

RequiemsfireJul 2, 20171 votes

I prefer LS's tier list where he list champions who are good for climbing rating mechanically low champions highly due to how easy they are to use and places Annie as the golden child.

FragglerocJul 5, 20171 votes

That is a problem with champ design.

We should be able to play every champion. And every of them should be relatively viable across the larger portion of elo.

FragglerocJul 2, 20171 votes

Balancing a game is not really that hard.

When your players aren't sure which champ to play every time from your entire pool of champions- You've achieved a basic sense of balance.

When your players decide to go to Caitlyn, Yasuo, Riven often, all other things considered equal- Your game is not balanced.

Ghostcrawler and others have these insane, weird ideas to justify their jobs being "hard". You guys do not have a difficult job. Tell that to the guy that has to clean the floors near the reactors of Fukushima.

Sir FuzziJul 2, 20171 votes

Yi in strong?

I need to know why.

FragglerocJul 2, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Fuzzi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PgJRAh9y,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-07-02T23:13:34.347+0000)

Yi in strong?

I need to know why.

Most low elos can't handle Yi. They are not good at kiting or CCing. As what we all were when we start out in this game.

Right now u're better than them... But can u at least stand in their shoes, look at the state of the game from their point of view?

It is called Empathy.

RenownedWheat42Jul 2, 20172 votes

Balancing around low elo would be retarded. Making Yi weak at low elo when he's already weak at high elo = a champ who's good literally nowhere.

FragglerocJul 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Balancing around low elo would be retarded. Making Yi weak at low elo when he's already weak at high elo = a champ who's good literally nowhere.

It would be a good bandaid. U need to help out the majority of players first.

Sir FuzziJul 4, 20171 votes

There's no bandaid needed. Being dumpstered by low-end high-performers is how you get better; Yi is exactly HOW you learn to time stuns, because he has absolutely nothing but his Q; it is his bread, his butter. It is his nut button. It is his greatest meme. And once the Q has gone bunk, Yi has to really think on the spot and distinguish himself from bad Yis because there's not a lot going on for him.

I respect that I got dumpstered by Yi back in the day; I also formally submit that I didn't come onto boards or make tier lists.

Nerfing Yi means nerfing his damage. Nerfing his damage will definitely make him easier early; but it will make him objectively a poor performer later on. Yi doesn't even bring a slow that doesn't come out of Frozen, if he gets that (and he does want his crit in some capacity too).

I don't think I'd call him strong. I'd say League is more popular, and more proliferated with people who haven't played MOBAs; balancing around them is the equivalent of designing a car for someone who's never done a mechanical job a day of their lives. You're not designing anything based on any fact, or functional performance or opinion-- literally strictly on the basis, 'can I win?' in a skill bracket where champions are largely responsible for work done.

You put a bandaid on a child's scraped knee; telling these people to build Thornmail is a bandaid. It's an answer to exactly one problem, the open wound. Balancing Yi out for low ELO would be the equivalent of putting a bandaid on a kid's head because he got a math question wrong. You don't do that, you give them the right answer or a nudge in the right direction.

Learning isn't easy. Nobody ever said it was. But if we start taking it out of the game, the whole divisional bracket is gonna be pretty irrelevant to player skill.

I was there once, and I sure as hell didn't make balance decisions (or ones that got supported by people or tier lists).

FragglerocJul 5, 20171 votes

Well, if you want to run the risk of pissing off a large portion of your customer base.

Yi is trash at professional play but stomps on new players- If u think this image of a champ is perfectly ok and that he does not need a rework, there must be some masochistic side of u that enjoy seeing new players getting stomped in an unfair manner.

It is simply bad design. Similar to Urgot and many other champs.

Sir FuzziJul 6, 20171 votes

Pissing off whom, exactly? Yi has been the same roughly since I joined League back in S3.

Yi punishes newbies because his one function is punishing mistakes. You nerf him and he'll be nothing but freelo in low ELO, and a troll pick for toxic shit in anything but unranked and norms. If he can't capitalize instantly on an extension, he's over-- you can even reposition him during his Q, which can lead him to an instant death.

Unfortunately, Yi is probably going to stay like this. If he gets nerfed, it's not going to be by the idea you seem to have.

It's not unfair. Get good or get the hell off of League of Legends; if you're genuinely promoting that players shouldn't be getting over Yi (as they have been for three entire seasons) as much as anyone like him, you're promoting that they don't work to get good and learn how the game... is, mechanically.

Your method of handing down your point is atrocious. You're toxic and unfriendly and unwilling to open to discussion. I am dying to know when this attitude has gotten you anywhere (other than with your mother, who is morally obligated to tolerate your God-forsaken attitude) and why you expect it to get you anywhere here.

Your tier list is sloppy and does not, as no single division does (by your admission), represent a uniform state of balance.

Yi, and many others who people regularly complain about, are just fine. Yasuo is just fine. People can hate him. People are going to. People have always hated generalists. But they'll always exist, because there are one-hundred and thirty six playable individual characters and not all of them are going to be pockets full of posies. Some are going to be Master Yi, the overwhelming majority of whose resources are just damage. Others will be like Urgot, and were designed by a team that was made up of humans trying to make something other than fucking Ahri for you people.

You'd find a reason to complain about winning the lottery, I'm confident. And you'd still carry this attitude with you. "it just is," he ruminates, as if he were some sort of scholar in the matter. "Like all these other things that are awful and terrible because I said so."

I am so salt.

FragglerocJul 8, 20171 votes

I maintain that u should always try to balance for the majority of your customer population.

A few adjustments to about 5 champs goes a long way to do that.

It is that simple.

FragglerocJul 6, 20171 votes

Daily fucks to the balance team.

Bump pls.