how do u justify a tank getting absolutely stomped by an assassin in laning phase?

Fraggleroc·Dec 31, 2018·20 votes·5,566 views

adc > tank > assassin > mage > adc

i learnt this in elementary.

68 Comments

Moody PDec 31, 201826 votes

Why do you expect to automatically win lane because of your pick?

BoatwhistleDec 31, 201812 votes

He didn't say he expects to win lanes based on picks, he said he expects tanks to not get "stomped" by assassins.

LTK KoRoDec 31, 20187 votes

If assassin is a much better player than a tank player, then why not? Mages can stomp every matchup if they're better than the opponent, idk why other classes shouldn't be allowed to do this too.

SaiannaDec 31, 20185 votes

If assassin is a much better player than a tank player,

Stop mr strawman.

Velzard of KozDec 31, 20188 votes

It's not Mr Strawman it's Mr OP didn't bother to provide even the slightest amount of context because circlejerks don't require them so assuming the assasin stomped them because the tank was terrible is relevant as any context is possible If no explicit was given.

KaishaDec 31, 20182 votes

Oh gimme a break, assasins don't take skill. Faceroll two buttons and watch ur opponent get delete'd while under the turret then hit ur 'insta-free-escape' button on a 10s CD and away you dance.

Moody PDec 31, 20184 votes

tanks take even less

Power CosmicJan 1, 20193 votes

The reward for being a skilled tank player does not match the reward to that of a good assassin player. And the difficulty in the two classes doesn't justify this difference, bc tanks cant carry. Those facts are pretty clear to everyone. That is why in terms of balancing, the tank should be safer (strong in lane) to make up for this. A game built around high risk, low reward and moderate or minimal risk, high reward is goes against everything.

SaiannaJan 1, 20191 votes

From my POV it was more of "OP wasn't specific, so I'll just say that good player will always beat bad player"

This argument is pretty much always true. It simply doesn't add much, especially when we see how LOL is now.

Maybe not exactly strawman, yeah, but still a bullcrap level of argument.

AR URFDec 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVE6B4PN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-31T14:01:16.501+0000)

Why do you expect to automatically win lane because of your pick?

Because counter picks? Why does Rammus who builds item 3075 win everytime against any ADC? Because Rammus counters ADC. A Rammus wins by default.

Arcanine19Dec 31, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVE6B4PN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-31T14:01:16.501+0000)

Why do you expect to automatically win lane because of your pick?

Losing a lane and getting stomped is completely different tho

Frog goes mooDec 31, 201822 votes

if you haven't gotten your items yet, you aren't a tank. Even high damage supports like zyra, brand, and bard will slap you in lane if you haven't gotten your items yet.

SaevumDec 31, 20187 votes

Don't confuse the kid more than he already is. Zyra and Brand even though they have been picked as supports, deep down, you know they were not designed for that role.

Frog goes mooDec 31, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Don't confuse the kid more than he already is. Zyra and Brand even though they have been picked as supports, deep down, you know they were not designed for that role.

Actually I don't know deep down. Seeing as though item 3303 exists, I'd say riot had support in mind for them. Especially zyra more than brand. The way her passive works just screams support. Brand, I see him more of a support just because of his cooldowns and mana consumption.

The fact that they have a higher pick rate and have better results playing support also supports(XD) the support theory.

NyarlathοtepDec 31, 20183 votes

They are support because they work better at the support role. They have good base dmg (as such no gold from csing) and good range enabling them poke adcs. Also, these 2 particularly, their kit are better orientated to skirmishes than 1v1.

Frog goes mooDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

They are support because they work better at the support role. They have good base dmg (as such no gold from csing) and good range enabling them poke adcs. Also, these 2 particularly, their kit are better orientated to skirmishes than 1v1.

I know. Why are you replying this to me though? Did you mean to reply to someone else?

SaevumDec 31, 20181 votes

So you know, but deep down you didn't? Makes sense. How did VanaQuish went into a deranged and dedelusional conclusion?

Oh! maybe, he or she was indeed trying to reply to someone else!

jocomotionDec 31, 20183 votes

It also depends on what assassin, what tank, and how well each of them played.

For an example Sion is fighting Zed . If Zeds good enough to use his skills to dodge Sions fairly telegraphed abilities, out sustain his mana with his energy, be basically ungankable, and play the map better with roaming (which is kinda what assassins do) then Zed should win just from out performin mg Sion.

Slythrin UmbreonDec 31, 20181 votes

Sion could probably win that lane with better wave clear. Also, even if he doesn't land his knock up, being able to shout > Q charge to force Zed to shadow when he doesn't want to is pretty good and keeps Zed's all in potential under control. Sion might not win an outright fight, but he can control the Zed and not let him do what he wants either until Zed falls off and Sion pops off on farm.

Sire HippingtonDec 31, 20181 votes

If Zeds good enough to use his skills to dodge Sions fairly telegraphed abilities .... be basically ungankable

Given Zeds early CDs, those two kinda exclude each other. If you can force Zed to commit his W in order to dodge your stuff, he no longer can be agressive without exposeing himself to ganks, meaning you now have priority and can controll the wave. Sion is by far the best tank for laneing against anyone, which is why he's still a strong toplaner. His stuff may be telegraphed, but his basevalues are huge, the cds not that great and the waveclear is massive, his mana is not a big issue and befor tear 2 boots, his telegraphed skills still force mobillity tools in order to avoid them.

charge attackDec 31, 20181 votes

You can just push Zeds shit in. Buy some armour/health first back before Zed hits 6, and then he can’t kill you anymore (until around 3+ items). I don’t see a world in which Zed accomplishes anything vs Sion mid.

You’ll neutralize him mid lane, undiveable in side lanes, and more impactful in teamfights. It has a lot to do with the fact that Sion is one of the few tanks that’s actually strong right now.

SaltyCauseBadDec 31, 20181 votes

item 3135 lol there go my items

JamareeDec 31, 201817 votes

Just because you pick a tank doesn't mean you can just face roll win the lane no matter the match up.

BoatwhistleDec 31, 20189 votes

He did not suggest something so extreme as you can see by reading it.

JamareeDec 31, 20188 votes

{quoted}

He did not suggest something so extreme as you can see by reading it.

What is he suggesting, because all he said, was tanks shouldn't get absolutely stomped. On what basis, did the tank play poorly, did they itemize poorly, maybe the other player is just better.

BoatwhistleDec 31, 20185 votes

The instance doesn't matter, what he said is what he meant. Assassins fail, or at least ought to fail, if their target survives their stupidly strong all ins. Tanks ought to be able to handle these all ins better then anything else as when its over they should normally survive ad still be attacking while the assassin needs to wait a bit before they are opportune to do a significant burst again. If the assassin can kill its most durable foes with ease they are either doing an overbearing amount of dmg, tanks are not tanky enough, or its a combination of the two.

Whether or not this is the case is what should be in dispute, no the instances that inspired the claim. I for one agree, most tanks are generally weak at being tanks and its not surprising anymore to see them lose 4/5 of their hp to assassins at any point in the game.

JamareeDec 31, 20184 votes

{quoted}

The instance doesn't matter, what he said is what he meant. Assassins fail, or at least ought to fail, if their target survives their stupidly strong all ins. Tanks ought to be able to handle these all ins better then anything else as when its over they should normally survive ad still be attacking while the assassin needs to wait a bit before they are opportune to do a significant burst again. If the assassin can kill its most durable foes with ease they are either doing an overbearing amount of dmg, tanks are not tanky enough, or its a combination of the two.

Whether or not this is the case is what should be in dispute, no the instances that inspired the claim. I for one agree, most tanks are generally weak at being tanks and its not surprising anymore to see them lose 4/5 of their hp to assassins at any point in the game.

Then say that, don't just say, "during lane phase, assassins shouldn't do anything to tanks." because that is what he said.

Slythrin UmbreonDec 31, 20182 votes

He didn't say that though? He said they shouldn't get stomped, then pointed back to the old triangle which never worked like you're describing.

Death by GlamourDec 31, 201813 votes

which tank which assassin?

BenLegend443Dec 31, 20182 votes

for assassin, he's probably talking about Akali. Not sure about the tank though.

Bobloser3555Dec 31, 20181 votes

probably Malphite

ModWulf HelhammerDec 31, 20189 votes

Tanks aren’t automatically tanky at the start of the game.

Assassins have strong early game power. Tanks have stronger mid game power, after they’ve gotten their items and before the enemy DPS have their pen items. That means that usually, an assassin is going to beat you in lane early, and if they snowball enough, they’ll beat you into midgame too.

The SpikoDec 31, 20182 votes

well i agree with you completly , but there is some exceptions like garen ( thanks to his W its hard to burst him ) . i can see without any doublt that this champ is the N1 anti asassin semi tank champ in the game. as basic and simple he is as effectif and usefull he is . Also he can insta punish a roaming assassin since in 90 % of time when an asassin vs me roam and get kill he back to lane as the vilan , and vilans can do nothing vs garen :p he is the justice hero after all

Fízz v2Dec 31, 20188 votes

by the assassin playing better than the tank :^)

Power CosmicDec 31, 20186 votes

This is a blanket reply to a lot of people. Tanks should be safe and strong bc they can't carry. The ultimate reward - carrying, should carry a lot of risk. Hence, tanks should have less risk, which means good laning. Strong laning should be a direct counter to about all assassins, as assassins aren't only designed to carry but are also designed to snowball. Those rewards equate to extreme high levels or risk. If they do not, assassins override the building blocks of the game and start to erode the meta. Why play marksmen if assassin carries harder, earlier, and cheaper? Why play strong split push if an assassin can regularly get strong fast and take that option away? Why play a mage and wait to get one-shot ulted before an assassin even finishes an item? Why play a tank if tanks are risky to lane with bc strong assassins? The last point sums it all up, if tanks are riskier picks than assassins then the game is doing something wrong, whether or not I am a fan of either.

sobi999Dec 31, 20186 votes

My friend, you won't receive any likes for making great sense because it is against the boards rules and regulations.

Meany StingDec 31, 20183 votes

There are like 2 viable tanks at the moment sion and poppy in toplane. I do not know many assassins who stop on those. THE OTHER TANKS THOUGH, I could cry for then, nautilus, sejuani etc are in pitiful position.

Daddy AntsDec 31, 20183 votes

The one class who's not meant to be shredding tanks (Assassin's) are actually shredding tanks.

Nea104Dec 31, 20182 votes

Indeed. And still, look at how many people still don't understand this basic elementary statement, **after 1 whole year **of this missconcept.

KaishaDec 31, 20183 votes

Cause the games an unbalanced mess.

NoceurekDec 31, 20182 votes

https://image.ibb.co/i2f6fn/League_Roles2.jpg

HammermancerDec 31, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Polish Vayne,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVE6B4PN,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-12-31T18:00:06.320+0000)

https://image.ibb.co/i2f6fn/League_Roles2.jpg

And according to that chart supports counter everyone

Taric

prove me wrong

Slythrin UmbreonJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted} prove me wrong

Supports are mages, and according to the chart Mages lose to assassins and tanks Teemo

HammermancerJan 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slythrin Umbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVE6B4PN,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2019-01-01T00:09:38.381+0000)

Supports are mages, and according to the chart Mages lose to assassins and tanks Supports are literally just a subclass and every support champion is a nerfed version of another class with added supporty stuff

TerozuDec 31, 20182 votes

Because Assassin's have better laning phases and will get items sooner.

Reaper ClawsJan 1, 20192 votes

What school taught you that, lol?

AR URFDec 31, 20181 votes

I saw Kayn (blue) with item 1400 item 3147 item 3812 pop our Nasus who had item 3110 item 3025 item 3047 item 3065 . I was honestly surprised that it happened.