Normal Games Stats going away is a slap in the face to

Fraggleroc·Jul 19, 2017·297 votes·8,412 views

All the players who choose/prefer to only play Normal Games.

Instead of making Normal Games experience better, Rito copped out and planned on executing this really bad change.

Let's make our protests heard.

"On the 24th Riot will be deprecating part of the API that provides data on normal games. Well, the data will still be there but the part that links game participants to summoner names will be removed. Riot also updated their data policies to prohibit the tracking players' normal game data. So sites like op.gg will not be able to provide any information or your normal games by this time next week or risk losing access to the API." - DrProfessorPhD on reddit.

212 Comments

FragglerocJul 19, 201775 votes

More respect for Normies pls.

yesnobananaJul 19, 201716 votes

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

SzGamer227Jul 19, 201745 votes

I went from well over 1000 hours on League according to wol.gg to just over 40 because I only rarely play ranked games. Rito pls

JRobin31Jul 19, 20172 votes

Were the 1000 hours a way for you to compete with other players in normals? By bragging about your 1000 hours are you not competing with other players? Is this saying, "Look at me, I have over 1000 hours in normals, I am more awesome than other players that have fewer than 1000 hours in normals? But now no one can go to a third party website and see how I am better than other players?" That's a form of public competition. Why are you using normal games that way?

PlacentasJul 19, 201728 votes

Woooow, chill bro.

JRobin31Jul 19, 20174 votes

CytheGuyJul 19, 201710 votes

People like showing off how much time they've put into what they've done. If they didn't, then they run the risk of falling into depression after coming to the conclusion that they've wasted a thousand hours on a game, which is mostly frowned upon in society today.

JRobin31Jul 19, 20174 votes

I don't follow what you are saying here. "like showing off" but "frowned upon in society" and "if they didn't" then they "risk depression". I do not understand.

I'm not trying to devalue anyone here; I just don't understand. Could you articulate this more clearly?

3TWarriorJul 19, 201716 votes

I suppose a similar comparison would be if the public educational system erased your records once you graduated high school. Yes, you completed high school and applied twelve years of your life, but so did anyone else with a diploma

CytheGuyJul 19, 20178 votes

This explains it amazingly! You spend a large portion of time on doing something, but you are placed at a value equal to everyone else. Nobody takes into account what you've done, so you don't get to stand out in any way.

BlitzidiousJul 20, 20176 votes

Mate. I've been playing for a long time now, and it's gonna say I have 0 hours. I've quite literally never touched that ranked button. :P

MalfectiousJul 19, 201727 votes

Wow, this sucks....as a person who doesn't have the time needed to dedicate to ranked, all I have are norms. Damn riot, what did we do to you?

JRobin31Jul 19, 20174 votes

What do you mean you don't have the time? If you have time to play normal games, why don't you have time to play ranked games?

And, what does this have to do with the data policy?

TheFancySkeletonJul 19, 201713 votes

Because we like to have fun and not see our losses shoved into our faces?

JRobin31Jul 19, 20171 votes

So... ranked games aren't fun and not seeing your accumulated statistics for normal games decreases your fun? So when you look at your accumulated statistics for normal games, losses aren't "shoved in your face" even though that's exactly what a win/loss ratio would show you?

3TWarriorJul 19, 20172 votes

ranked is much more heavily biased though because people think that they are wagering something on a losing hand

if you play something that ranked players do not agree with, many will demonize you and lose the game anyway from poor attitude, likely from one mistake

another difference is that unlike ranked, normals are effectively a competitive mode without runes. Everyone is giving their best and can have runes, but a large majority of the norm do not have or need the excess stats that runes provide as an advantage over your opponent

JRobin31Jul 20, 20172 votes

So... you are saying that ranked creates too much pressure on players to perform and this is why some players prefer to play normals and use normals as a competitive mode in and of itself, and therefore, players should be allowed to use their normals game statistics as competitive measures against each other.

In other words, you disagree with RIOT that normals shouldn't be openly competitive between players. I can accept that as a legitimate stance.

But isn't this just psychological? I get flamed all the time in normal games. It's just a question of degree associated with pressure to perform. Do you understand why RIOT doesn't want normals to be a place where players measure themselves against each other?

LightningShadoJul 20, 20171 votes

Even though your teammates are pressuring you to perform, it doesn't that their pressuring has any weight. Norms are fun but still have the possibility to be competitive. Either can happen. Also, mute buttons exist.

JRobin31Jul 20, 20171 votes

Mute buttons exist in ranked too. Isn't the weight or pressure just psychological? When you say "either can happen" do you mean that either games are fun or they are competitive, but they can't be both? In other words, fun games can't happen in ranked, but they can happen in normals even if they don't happen all the time? Sometimes I don't get flamed in ranked (I even get honored).

Can you explain more why you think normals should be openly competitive between players?

LightningShadoJul 20, 20171 votes

Yes. No. No. Normals should be openly competitive between players because norms mean something to some and nothing to others. They are subjectively competitive to the people trying to be competitive. Normals are made for the general player base, both devoted and casual, so any player can make it what they wish and there is nothing wrong with that.

JRobin31Jul 21, 20171 votes

Okay, so it is just psychological and ranked games can be fun and mute buttons exist.

You say there's "nothing wrong" with competition in normals, but that doesn't make it "right" to display the data publicly. Why is it definitively "wrong" to disallow public data on normal games?

LightningShadoJul 21, 20172 votes

It's not. These people just don't want that to happen. That's their OPINION. You are free to have a different one.

3TWarriorJul 20, 20171 votes

no, what i'm saying is that with the MMR system and the way the game is currently being developed, the only reason they might have for something like this is if they decide to go the route(like many games) where ranked and normals are the same thing

it's not that ranked provides pressure, heck, it's even good that it applies pressure...Instead it's that too many players in ranked are jerks and the matchmaking system is almost completely random until you hit platinum...something which normal games are not

All a change like this will accomplish is to pad the ego of any player in ranked that wants to devalue a normal player by placing themselves on a pedestal in comparison.

I mentioned that runes were quite a huge factor in ranked. In normals, they're just a nuisance. In ranked, they're an excess 20 in stats depending upon what you specialize for

JRobin31Jul 21, 20172 votes

"too many players in ranked are jerks"

imo, there are plenty of jerks in normal games too.

"the matchmaking system is almost completely random until you hit platinum...something which normal games are not"

I agree to an extent. I think this is because normal MMR doesn't soft reset at the start of season like ranked MMR does. So normal games actually continue to match players according to how an ELO system was originally designed to do so. ELO systems were never intended for resets (soft or hard) and, therefore, lack the proper tools for them.

But what does this have to do with how data is used?

"All a change like this will accomplish is to pad the ego of any player in ranked that wants to devalue a normal player by placing themselves on a pedestal in comparison."

Why is this a problem affected by the change? How did displaying normal data for individual players make anyone less of a jerk?

"I mentioned that runes were quite a huge factor in ranked. In normals, they're just a nuisance."

What is the relevance of runes to this change?

CowseedJul 19, 20176 votes

Then why do you care about the stats for those games then?

TheFancySkeletonJul 20, 201710 votes

Personal improvement. I absolutely suck butt at CS-ing, so I look to improve, brother.

junglerboy16Jul 19, 20172 votes

I don't have the time to dedicate to climbing, and I'd rather have my skill be indicated by my actual gameplay capabilities than by the fact that I haven't spent the hours to grind to gold +. Many Bronze and Silver players are far better at the game than their rank indicates because for the majority of the community, the only thing keeping them back from a higher rank is the ability to give a consistent time investment (i.e. anyone with the time should be gold easily)

If I started playing ranked, I'd be placed somewhere in bronze or silver (since you can't be placed higher on your initial 10 games going from unranked), so even though I play the majority of my matches in normals with gold, plat, and sometimes diamond players, my rank would look far inferior to my actual capabilities for a very long time.

JRobin31Jul 20, 20172 votes

So in your view the ranked system is flawed in it's ability to accurately reflect your actual skill without you devoting more time to it than you have available. That's a legitimate concern.

And so you prefer the convenience of measuring your skill in normals so that you don't have to worry about the pressure of grinding to a rank that you don't have time to grind to. I think that's a concern RIOT should address in some way.

If a significant portion of players don't play ranked being they are dissatisfied with its ability to measure their skill, then that's a problem. After all, you don't have to be interested in end of season rewards to be interested in measuring your skill relative to other players.

Do you agree?

junglerboy16Jul 20, 20171 votes

Yes, and for me I feel there are too many issues with the current ranked system to really warrant investing time into it since it seems to offer little outside of stress and added pressure to the game. Being able to say "Yeah I'm X rank" isn't worth the additional trolls, ragers, or broken placements and overly complex MMR/elo/LP systems.

Maybe I'm just a casual player and not suited to the ranked grind, but if they made ranked less about how much time you put in and the luck of your matchmaking any given game, I'd probably be more willing to grind for it.

JRobin31Jul 21, 20172 votes

Okay, so the ranked system seems too complex for you to want to take the time with it...

"but if they made ranked less about how much time you put in and the luck of your matchmaking any given game, I'd probably be more willing to grind for it."

I don't understand. I mean isn't grind by definition a significant time investment? Are you saying you would "grind" for it if they removed the grind? I don't understand.

Isn't your issue really with the ranked resets that force a new grind each season? Normals, to my knowledge, don't reset their MMR (but they also don't offer end of season rewards).

GrandussJul 19, 201718 votes

That seems weird. But I have a theory as to why this is. We all now how BAD the matchmaking is in League. This is no secret. It's likely that what is going on here is them trying to hide the information so they wont continue to get complaints about match making.

No tinfoil hat here. Just feel that they want less complaints, and by hiding info, they can achieve that.

SEKAIJul 19, 201719 votes

{quoted}

That seems weird. But I have a theory as to why this is. We all now how BAD the matchmaking is in League. This is no secret. It's likely that what is going on here is them trying to hide the information so they wont continue to get complaints about match making.

No tinfoil hat here. Just feel that they want less complaints, and by hiding info, they can achieve that.

If so, why would they choose Norm, where nobody gives a shit about its matchmaking balance (not even the people backing this thread and others on the same topic. Because what they're complaining about is that they can not see their game data on those 3rd party sites since they play Norms exclusively, rather than the supposed matchmaking balance or whatever)?

Obviously you're just seeing things.

KoKobotoJul 19, 201710 votes

Are you being sarcastic? I mostly play normals and I get pretty pissed off when I get bad teams against diamonds or vice versa. I want balanced games.

Scary DoorJul 19, 20178 votes

If so, why would they choose Norm, where nobody gives a shit about its matchmaking balance (not even the people backing this thread and others on the same topic. Because what they're complaining about is that they can not see their game data on those 3rd party sites since they play Norms exclusively, rather than the supposed matchmaking balance or whatever)?

Obviously you're just seeing things.

While I don't think that was Riot's sole intention, I think he is right. Riot's matchmaking is absolute garbage. As to your "who cares about matchmaking in normals?" semi-rhetorical question I'll answer that with "I do", as do many other people.

You may find this hard to believe but the overwhelming majority of players that play this game do NOT play ranked. They play ARAM or Normal Draft/Blind pick. Those individuals are entitled to a fairly matchmade game just as much as those that play ranked.

PurpleKingCrazyJul 19, 201712 votes

This is definitely a horrible decision by Riot honestly. I think what's gonna happen is that they might lose a bit of players because of the service they provide to people who play in Normals. Of course it could be an embarassment to some, but to others they just find the learning experience for others.

As far as I'm concerned, at least I want to learn from my mistakes too.

ProfirixJul 19, 201711 votes

I do not understand why so many people think that playing normal games somehow makes you worse or unqualified. I've found that playing normal games is more enjoyable and I tend to actually learn more from them because I'm not usually dealing with the same level of toxicity that creeps up in ranked games. In normal games I will battle against team comps that otherwise would never make it into the copy-and-paste meta that ranked almost requires to succeed.

This season specifically has shown me just how toxic ranked games have become, and therefore I chose to have fun (but I also want to keep an eye on my performance) in normal games. It doesn't make me or anyone else a worse player.

EndlessIsolationJul 19, 20173 votes

I don't feel, in any way, that playing normals makes you "worse" or "unqualified" compared to ranked. It DOES however piss me off when I go into Blind Pick to have fun or play something, and get stuck into something I don't like playing (IE: jungle) and then get flamed for 30+ minutes because I explicitly stated I don't jungle. Or I pick a champion I want to play for fun "Panth botlane, or AP Nasus support", or people take blind pick super seriously. There is draft mode for that, I just want to chill in blind pick.

That said, I think some of the community takes this shit way to seriously in the first place (myself sometimes as well) and Riot isn't helping things).

HawckeyJul 19, 20173 votes

If you honestly give a shit about what you're facing in norms then tht's your problem, lmao

DrCyanideJul 19, 201713 votes

It's not what you're facing that's being complained about here, it's "how am I doing?" Who you're facing before going into a game is still available.

With these changes any site trying to tell you if you're CSing better on a champion in Normals now than you were a month or two ago is going to be shut down. Any site telling you what your KDA or Win Rate is on a champion in Normals is going to be shut down. Any site that tells you how you're doing at warding on particular champions in Normals is going to be shut down. That's the problem.

HawckeyJul 19, 20172 votes

[deleted]

DrCyanideJul 19, 201711 votes

You do realise most people on norms are trying stupid builds and first timing champs right? If you want to measure your performance you should be in ranked.

Other players performance doesn't effect your CS, Wards Placed, Damage done to Objectives, etc.

Some of us even want to know how we're doing with those "stupid builds" to know if they're worth taking into Ranked. If we've only got a 38% win rate over the last 50 games with them, it's probably not worth it. Wouldn't you rather we know that before we get into a Ranked game with you?

Either way, it is not hard to figure out your winrate from the past 10-20 games (the ones that matter).

The last 10-20 games is a mix of ARAM, Featured Game Modes, and the Normal games that are actually worth tracking. Even then, trying to pull the data by hand for those games can be a pain. For example, what is your average CS at 15 minutes? I can tell you that for your Ranked games, but Riot's made it impossible to share that for your Normal games, even if I can collect the data.

Stats for normal are just a huge waste of resources and I'm glad they are taking it away if it will allow more resources for important shit

It doesn't allow more resources for anything else. If anything it's the opposite, it takes Riot resources away from other things, since they've now got to actively prevent sites from collecting Normal stats and police them.

HawckeyJul 19, 20171 votes

[deleted]

DrCyanideJul 19, 20175 votes

I actually use the Riot API, and I know you haven't because if you had you'd realize you're not making any sense.

They aren't "cutting it", they never officially had it. There was never an endpoint you could call to get this information. They're saying "we don't want anyone to compile this information on their own, and we'll stop supplying you data if you try and build it". There's absolutely no storage space saved since Riot needs all that data to populate Riot's own Match History site.

Ranked is something I play to work towards Gold rewards, other than that it's just simply a worse experience than Normals. "Ranked anxiety" has no factor in this.

HawckeyJul 19, 20171 votes

[deleted]

DrCyanideJul 19, 20176 votes

What exactly would "my kind" be?

Also, did you even bother to think what this game would be like without Normals? Would you have really have players grind their way to Level 30 playing only Bot games, only to have their first ever PVP game be a Ranked game with you? I'm sure that would be soooo much better for you than whatever "my kind" is.

HawckeyJul 19, 20171 votes

Yes, ranked should be available from lvl 1 and every other gamemode eliminated. I guarantee to u that beyond these boards filled with reddit analysts, you will see people who actually play the game to get better and not fk around in normals as if this game is meant to be fun

DrCyanideJul 19, 20179 votes

as if this game is meant to be fun

All games are meant to be fun, that's why they're called "games" and not "chores", "jobs", "responsibilities" or "duties". Sounds like you've lost sight of why you play.

All removing Normals and starting level 1 players in Ranked would do is make the Ranked system an even bigger joke than it is now. Troll accounts could start messing with your Ranked games as soon as they made their account without waiting for Level 30.

CatastropJul 19, 201714 votes

{quoted}

Yes, ranked should be available from lvl 1 and every other gamemode eliminated. I guarantee to u that beyond these boards filled with reddit analysts, you will see people who actually play the game to get better and not fk around in normals as if this game is meant to be fun

This is the stupidest thing to ever grace my eyes on these boards.

JethzkJul 19, 20176 votes

I get better games in normal than ranked. If you think normal doesn't have Match Making Rating, your wrong. People who think there's no MMR, don't play enough to push it high. Not everyone wants to try hard and one trick, this is a slap in the face for all these people.

Riot didn't stop tracking anything, they just stopped showing the link to summoners names. That doesn't free up resources, in fact it takes more time as they revisit and reprogram aspects of the system.

JRobin31Jul 19, 20171 votes

You do realize that you can still view your personal match history for normal games right? You do realize that you can still see how much cs you got in your recent normal games and your old normal games right? You do realize that you can still see your KDAs in your personal match history right?

So the only thing that changed is the means by which you personally assess your capability, which is to say, by accessing third party websites that display your information and allow you to compete with other players in a public way without playing ranked games. Are you saying that wasn't a problem?