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In reality new runes just destroyed the game balance : we have never seen this many complains !

MOuHahaHAhahaaaa··80 votes·3,371 views

I understand that Riot wanted to make changes. But those were too big.

I mean past runes and mastery system have been studied by your past employees and they worked a lot to balance the game around them. This took many years but the game was getting approximatively balanced even with some exceptions.

By removing ancient masteries and runes you just destroyed all your previous work to make the game better. You decided to start again from 0 ! And that's a big mistake...

Wouldn't it have been smarter to keep ancient runes and masteries system while giving free runes for everyone ? And perhaps adding new little masteries changes or effects.

I'm just saying this for these reasons :

  • There has never been this many complains on the boards
  • Even pro players and streamers stopped playing some roles...
  • At low elo games are being shorter noobs get raped when they learn to play => extremely punishing for beginners.
  • The game is actually so messy that riot needs to release huge patches every months...
  • Adc are steamrolling and litteraly shitting on other roles. A vayne + statik = 1/3 of your life only by hiting a close minion. Draven you can't even engage him with 2 kills ahead. Tristana late is like a minigun with spiderman mobility and an artillery gun range.
  • Match making Algorythm is extremely punishing. Only based on quantitative studies (statistics) W/L ratio but there aren't any qualitative studies (game vision and map control level) about it. Why does a plat I have to play with a gold I ? Or why does a Silver I have to play with a bronze I ? There is a huge difference between them (about game vision) and riot let this happen. You can be good mechanicaly and carrying low elo game but at the same time if you haven't a good reading and vision of the game you shouldn't be able to play a t higher elo games.

There are actualy too many inequalities in this game !

84 Comments

y0r1ck29 votes

I feel like there is nothing better about the new runes compared to the previous runes and masteries.

Edit - Except for the fact we get to change them right before the game. And if you think about it, we already had this with masteries.

Ratpie17 votes

I agree, I do not see the new system as better. Just substituting one illusion of choice for another. Only this one put some champs in a GOD tier and demoted some to Mordekaiser level.......(Sorry Mord fans, I couldn't resist myself)

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

There was a choice. Old runes were focused on early game, you could be an enchanter support and go with damage runes or tank runes for early lanning but you could pick masteries for your overall game. Now you HAVE to commit to something all out because most of the new runes are about scaling. You can't pick safety early without committing to safety late.

VexingRaven8 votes

{quoted}

I feel like there is nothing better about the new runes compared to the previous runes and masteries.

Edit - Except for the fact we get to change them right before the game. And if you think about it, we already had this with masteries.

That's because there is nothing better. You lose the flexibility of which base stats you want. You lose the ability to have 20 free mastery pages so you didn't have to change them before every game. In exchange, we get a less varied and flexible mastery system which pages you have to pay for, and the stats from runes split up between being tied to which mastery tree you picked and being just added to the champion in the preseason patch whether you wanted that particular stat or not.

And the fact that all the power vacated by the departure of runes and 30 masteries needs to be filled by just 6 runes leads into the incredible balance issues. Each rune needs to be much more impactful than the old masteries were which makes it more difficult to balance them as a whole.

And sure, you can change runes easily enough before the game, but I would rather not have to worry about remembering which runes I use for which champion before the game and worry about other stuff.

Teridax684 votes

For all intents and purposes, Runes Reforged was basically just another mastery rework, only now you have to buy mastery pages. Pure stat runes are gone from the game, but the end result is still just a bunch of pre-game bonuses that change very little once an optimal setup is found. The stronger the bonuses, the more disruptive they become to gameplay, contrary to Riot's hopes of these bonuses generating healthy gameplay on their own, which I think is why Runes Reforged has generated longer-lasting complaints than previous systems. Personally, I think the next step should probably be to roll runes into itemization, and allow champions to purchase more interesting stats and items at the start of a match.

deadlychuck2 votes

It really doesn't, and the people who felt that they didn't have a choice before will also feel like they don't have a choice now, because they were just copying their builds from online sources anyway and still are.

Where as the people who actually felt like runes offered them the ability to change how champions played now feel like they're locked into the optimal runes that now exist, because riot is forced to balance champions around the assumption that people will always take the optimal runes.

I actually said this before the pre-season, that the people who use cookiecutter builds ALWAYS use cookiecutter builds, no matter how much you try to simplify or streamline the build creation process. Yet you're doing a massive disservice to anyone who actually created and freestyles their builds, by simplifying the system and increasing the amount of power per choice (with each rune being a single choice). In effect, reducing the granularity doesn't matter to the people who copy other people's builds, but it acts as a barrier to players trying to customize their builds.

This was made evident back when WoW attempted to streamline their talent system and it didn't solve their cookiecutter build problem.

Karn Bishop21 votes

Hi guys meddler here i just want to remind you that boards is only a small portion of the community and were not concerned despite the fact that almost every thread on here are complaints about the state of the game which is highly unusual even for boards, were also not worried about all the top lane players quiting or jumping to other roles its totally fine, assassins are fine, adc are fine, dps tanks are fine its all FINE.

Fairyfleur3 votes

I'm fairly sure the boards has been like this before the changes, why do you think it has increased?

Madsin2513 votes

Sure the boards has always had posts " Nerf this, this is op, why does this exist"

But never have there been this many posts about the game as a whole being garbage.

Arakadia9 votes

Every season people say League is dieing or going to die.

Every season people say this has been the worst season ever.

Every season people say the whole game is garbage.

y0r1ck4 votes

Bro it was 1000% not like this in season 3-7. I can say that much for sure. There's the odd "league is shit" thread, but this season is a whole new level of shitstorm.

Sp33d Zer06 votes

It 10000% was. Just because it's a different title thread doesn't mean there's suddenly more complaining.

BloodbornS1 votes

I can 100% agree every season is identical from its complains. Every season has a hated meta(Tanks, Assassins), hated champs (Zed, Yasuo) and hated mechanics (like crit). I could go on about this but I think you get where this is going

Sp33d Zer01 votes

Remember runeglaive? Remember release Zac? Remember spirit of the colossus vi? Remember lulu top? Remember ignite tp hecarim

Arakadia9 votes

The boards being mostly complaints makes sense. People come here to talk about issues with the game because they're upset, while people who are happy with the game's state are less likely to come to the boards.

MrryZ5 votes

Even the people who do think the game is fine and browse the boards largely avoid posting or commenting as they're likely to be drowned out by downvotes of the vocal majority.

MorganFreemanBot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PfgjIKZj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-19T02:10:53.816+0000)

Hi guys meddler here i just want to remind you that boards is only a small portion of the community and were not concerned despite the fact that almost every thread on here are complaints about the state of the game which is highly unusual even for boards, were also not worried about all the top lane players quiting or jumping to other roles its totally fine, assassins are fine, adc are fine, dps tanks are fine its all FINE.

Been playing since S2 preseason.

Boards has always been one massive cluster-fuck of QQ about how broken the game was. The only time it erred from this was during the hentai thread epidemic (I.E. what killed the old forums).

Venomar1 votes

Right around the Cait nerfs at the end of season six, they dropped a few more highly requested changes and fixes. The boards were pretty fucking chill for a few weeks and there was very little 'bitching'.

I've only been around for a few years but I've been on forums my entire life. There is a big difference between complaining or discussion and a shit storm of bitching. Forums will always have complaints, it's what they're for, a place to give feedback and share thoughts and be in communication with people who have the same interest. Right now, I feel like one more bad change could send this place into an upheaval along the lines of the bf4 launch.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/nfTpwemT-what-do-we-mean-when-we-say-the-boardsreddit-are-a-minority

Ahristocats20 votes

no shit sherlock of course a new system that revolutionized the game after 8 years was going to destroy balance

if you thought it was going to be fixed in one preseason then think again friend

Spank the Fox17 votes

The worst part is when they finally get it right after an entire season of balancing around it, then announce “fuck it, we’re making a new volatile system xd!”

y0r1ck11 votes

Sure it's revolutionary but it's possible the new revolutionary system is just worse than the previous system.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

its possible... but this new system isn't even worse. all complain, but we had same sh*t with league of warlord, then league of thunderlord, then league of fervor, then league of strengh, and league of collosus.

y0r1ck1 votes

I think it's worse. There isn't the flexibility of the old runes. In game the new runes are generally flashier and better looking, but gameplay variety has suffered too much as a result of simplifying the runes and masteries. Realistically speaking, the only things the new runes accomplished were better graphics and restricting playstyles.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

There isn't the flexibility of the old runes.

flexibility ??? old runes ???

y0r1ck1 votes

Yeah, flexibility.

With old runes you could tune your base stats based on how you wanted to play.

Riot baked base stats into champions to make up for the loss of runes. Now there's much less flexibility in champion base stats.

AmazoX13 votes

The same thread is made every season, the most complains the boards ever had started at pre-season 6 up to season 7. Season 8 so far is the most peaceful at the moment.

Remember Prepare yourself .... DYNAMIC QUEUE?! Remember Tankko? Remember Full tank Akali? Remember League of Thunderlords during pre-season 6 up to Season 6 around February the keystone was finally nerfed to balance. Remember The Armor Penetration Meta created after the Marksmen update? Remember the supreme reign of Kog Maw's rework with On-Hit items?! Remember the Mage Update which resulted in Malzahar soloing all the elemental drakes except for Infernal SOLO without SMITE at LEVEL 2?

It sure as hell was a perfect balance. hehe xd.

Every season we will get threads like these but keep em coming as I myself hate the buffs of baron's buff on PBE.

oortoomeebreesuu2 votes

This season has been like thunderlods on steroids tbh. it just has the added problem that, while there were mastery and rune choices to find viability for most champs, those have now been taken away and characters who abuse the rune system are running rampant, while those who needed those stats previously just to pretend to have parity (attack speed reds in the jungle etc) are now literally left desolate. But don't worry, we will buff kog'maw the day after we toned him down.

ModCaptainMårvelous10 votes

we have never seen this many complains !

This is false and I can point to several points in league's balance, both past and present, which have had similar if not greater levels of complaints. Ahem...

  • Season 5's juggernaut patch.
  • Season 3's league of black cleaver.
  • Yorick/Renekton Release in Season 2 (BAD cases of Riot messing with spotlights)
  • Madstone abuse.
  • Season 2's shitshow of a group stages.
  • Season 4's Support item changes.
  • The introduction of Keystones in the old mastery system (Thinking emoji)

Now, I'm not saying complaints aren't valid but can we please stop acting like "NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN THIS UPSET" because, as a vet, I've heard this every single season even if those problems were "worse".

MOuHahaHAhahaaaa1 votes

{quoted}

This is false and I can point to several points in league's balance, both past and present, which have had similar if not greater levels of complaints. Ahem...

  • Season 5's juggernaut patch.
  • Season 3's league of black cleaver.
  • Yorick/Renekton Release in Season 2 (BAD cases of Riot messing with spotlights)
  • Madstone abuse.
  • Season 2's shitshow of a group stages.
  • Season 4's Support item changes.
  • The introduction of Keystones in the old mastery system (Thinking emoji)

Now, I'm not saying complaints aren't valid but can we please stop acting like "NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN THIS UPSET" because, as a vet, I've heard this every single season even if those problems were "worse".

For myself have been reading old forums and the boards since season 2 however i never wrote any thread that's the first season i do it ! This year complains are way more frequent and numerous... And many of them have justifications it's not only some players angry about yasuo...

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Season 1 here. Also, it's a massive discredit to call the complaints of the past unjustified/whining. League, despite the rose tinted goggles, certainly did have major problems that Riot was slow in addressing or things that have still not been handled to this day. It's really not fair to say "Oh yeah ONLY THIS SEASON is when complaints matter". Not the year and a half of Morde threads because Riot took a champ they liked and slammed a square peg into a round hole.

Siegfriedx13 votes

{quoted}

This is false and I can point to several points in league's balance, both past and present, which have had similar if not greater levels of complaints. Ahem...

  • Season 5's juggernaut patch.
  • Season 3's league of black cleaver.
  • Yorick/Renekton Release in Season 2 (BAD cases of Riot messing with spotlights)
  • Madstone abuse.
  • Season 2's shitshow of a group stages.
  • Season 4's Support item changes.
  • The introduction of Keystones in the old mastery system (Thinking emoji)

Now, I'm not saying complaints aren't valid but can we please stop acting like "NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN THIS UPSET" because, as a vet, I've heard this every single season even if those problems were "worse".

I personally play since season 3 and I've seen the boards over react a lot, but this season was the first season where I felt like the boards sometimes was just legitimately just "reacting" instead of "over reacting". It feel bad for me and I've never felt this bad even during the Darius rework, juggernaut patch or league of sejuani.

ModCaptainMårvelous4 votes

I'm completely numb to it at this point. Hell, I don't think dynamic queue was that bad but I do think there were legitimate complaints to be had about it. It also doesn't help how most of the discussion has gone out the window: There's no longer a dialogue of "How can we fix this" or "What can be done to improve this". The only dialogue is "Revert/Nerf everything except towers" or "Fire the balance team".

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

The balance team has had enough time. They have shown again and again how biased they are and that the really don't know their own fucking game. Twisting their philosophy whenever it is fitting to write their narrative.

Wolfeur6 votes

There has never been this many complains on the boards

There have been as many complains as before. The boards have become a huge unstopping circlejerk since S4-5

LOSINGISMYPRIDE5 votes

but where is the money in your plan [sg-lux-2]

Pandemic Punch5 votes

Best season ever. People need to suck it up or play something else.

y0r1ck2 votes

People need to stop down voting opinions they don't like.

kurnubego1 votes

But that's the core function of votes lol :D

y0r1ck1 votes

That's the core function of votes in an echo chamber.

General Esdeath 4 votes

New rune system isn't even a rune system, it's just masteries. Runes (if included in the new system) would have something like "increase crit chance by X" or "+4 magic resist per level"

Blåbæret4 votes

Half the champ pool doesn't even have a decent "rune" lmao. Customization is gone and every game is the same shit. Garbage.

Hentai Lewds2 votes

Customization is dead we just have to live with it .

KuraSei4 votes

Runes were practically pay to win and needed to be removed

deadlychuck2 votes

You know, except for the last like 8 months that they were in the game, where they were effectively free.

It's almost like that would've been a better solution to the problem than removing them from the game.

Iffy Jarl3 votes

But nothing of the problems you mentioned really stem from runes all that much shiv is an item, tristana jump has always been there, and matchmaking is matchmaking

Sp33d Zer03 votes

There's the same amount of complaining now on the boards as s4. It's just a different topic

TwitchInMyPants3 votes

"There has never been this many complains on the boards"

Except there has, 50-200 upvote threads have been happening daily since the population spike in S3. You aren't special just because its about damage and fighters this season.

"Even pro players and streamers stopped playing some roles..."

SOME pro players and streamers, and once again this happens every year.

"At low elo games are being shorter noobs get raped when they learn to play => extremely punishing for beginners."

Have you ever smurfed in your entire life? This is literally every season ever since S1 when people were still new at the game mostly. Its a legitimate issue but smurfs only end up in games with a new player for a certain number of times before they're on "prisoners island" where they fight other smurfs instead. I blame bots and the tutorial being inadequate more than anything and people still survive and the population grows.

"The game is actually so messy that riot needs to release huge patches every months..."

Because everyone bitched that they only did incrimental changes a bunch of years and they've done way bigger patches previous years. Remember those class reworks everyone hated?

"Adc are steamrolling and litteraly shitting on other roles. A vayne + statik = 1/3 of your life only by hiting a close minion. Draven you can't even engage him with 2 kills ahead. Tristana late is like a minigun with spiderman mobility and an artillery gun range. "

Ah yes, a bunch of champions that have been nerfed or are slated to be nerfed. We get it, adcs are strong right now. They don't solo carry the game. If you're worried about them why not play support or jungle where you have strong influence on how well they do?

"Match making Algorythm is extremely punishing. Only based on quantitative studies (statistics) but there aren't any qualitative studies (game vision and map control level) about it. Why does a plat I have to play with a gold I ? Or why does a Silver I have to play with a bronze I ? There is a huge difference between them (about game vision) and riot let this happen."

Once again ignoring history. Matchmaking will NEVER be perfect and its actually in a better state than it has been believe it or not. More population = more even games simply because there's more people of the same ranks that exist. There's less of those weird fill games. Confirmation bias or not just because you still have those shitty matches doesn't mean they didn't happen before, especially due to the fact they actually happened way more often. Its either a mismatched game or 15-30mins in the matchmaker.

Like you're allowed to complain about whatever you want, but I'm not the only one that remembers previous states of the game. Riot is going to ignore you if the only thing you type at them is delusional exaggerations like this.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

No... no it's about the same amount of complaints.

SweedishGunner2 votes

New Runes are just new masteies, Runes were in fact just deleted from the game all together.

Whilst the new Runes fucked up the balance even more, the game was already going down hill before they were implemented. The new runs system just tipped the balance over the edge.

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