Jinx is horrendously broken

M Schumacher·May 12, 2015·13 votes·2,808 views

30% pick rate with a 54% win rate for months.

And this is across every single division.

http://i.imgur.com/3YjG4X3.gifv

"Just focus her" Because she won't have a team with her right?

"muh gapcloser" Because she doesn't have a passive that gives her insane mobility on kill or ASSIST?

-110% damage AoE Crits at 700 range (further than lvl 18 trist) -Global AoE execute -Attack speed steroid that ensures she takes your bot tower with just a Dorans blade.

Anyone who thinks this champion is fine is someone that mains her.

Please nerf this horrendously broken champion.

Inb4 Jinx main defense force flocks to this thread to defend their broken freelo.

35 Comments

M SchumacherMay 12, 20157 votes

Lol Jinx mains downvoting without even commenting because they know they can't back up anything.

Lord DusteonMay 12, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=M Schumacher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PfEulv2M,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-05-12T19:45:43.987+0000)

Lol Jinx mains downvoting without even commenting because they know they can't back up anything.

I'm not a jinx main, but since your thread is low quality "let's ignore a champions downsides and call them OP" I downvoted.

It also helps that you are someone who mainly goes to GD and circlejerks there and then came to G&B to do the exact same circlejerk. Tip, most people here want actual evidence and discussion, not you listing a champion's strengths, then throwing up your hands and going "OP plz nerf".

MatezoideMay 12, 20153 votes

54% win-rate with a 30% pick-rate is enough evidence theres something wrong with the champion.

Lord DusteonMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

54% win-rate with a 30% pick-rate is enough evidence theres something wrong with the champion.

It's evidence that the champion is currently easy to play and relatively strong. You'd then have to look at the meta (a tankier meta means more peel which means more safety for squishies such as the adc), itemization, counters, and the champion itself. So yes, a high pick and winrate is evidence something is up, but not specifically that it is that champion.

[{quoted}](name=M Schumacher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PfEulv2M,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2015-05-12T19:52:02.783+0000)

And theres no one here offering a counterargument?

The stats don't lie.

You could check my post, or Qetzel's post just above this, or Valkyrie Witch's.

MatezoideMay 12, 20152 votes

So either we completely change the meta or we tone down what is currently the best champion in the game, statistic wise.

We nerfed Tristana after the IE changes made her over the top (Or when Lucian was king, for a less drastic comparasion). Why shouldnt we tone down Jinx a bit so she doesnt rape solo-que near as hard?

Her kit is fine, she just needs a few adjustments. Regardless of the reason, the fact stays that she is currently the best ADC for solo-que and is winning a massive amount of games for something this popular.

M SchumacherMay 12, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PfEulv2M,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-05-12T19:48:40.367+0000)

I'm not a jinx main, but since your thread is low quality "let's ignore a champions downsides and call them OP" I downvoted.

It also helps that you are someone who mainly goes to GD and circlejerks there and then came to G&B to do the exact same circlejerk. Tip, most people here want actual evidence and discussion, not you listing a champion's strengths, then throwing up your hands and going "OP plz nerf".

And theres no one here offering a counterargument?

The stats don't lie.

qetzelMay 12, 20152 votes

I'll bite. Pick-rate only matters as it gives an indication of how many players have experience on the champion. We typically expect champions with a high pick-rate to have a larger proportion of unexperienced players, and so a balanced high pick-rate champion should have a lower win-rate.

However, this is not the case with Jinx. Jinx has a much higher proportion of "mains" than other champion's have. These people are going to bring the win-rate up to above 50%. They should be winning more than they are losing if they are putting the effort into mastering a champion.

Jinx in a balanced state should therefore have a higher than average win-rate.

Happy now? Also, doesn't this thread belong on GD? It is just QQ. No helpful suggestions have been made, you haven't fairly considered Jinx's weak points and you come off as aggressive and closed minded. This from a person who has only played jinx in a custom match. Not even in ARAM.

MatezoideMay 12, 20152 votes

So i guess everyone that plays [insert high pick-rate champion] is a shit that jumped on the "lel this champion is OP" wagon, while Jinx is basically the only champion that has a high amount of mains. Not to mention, her pick-rate has increased fairly recently, it wasnt always like this.

Even if you are right, you are saying a champion is mained by a third of the entire playerbase. Are you seriously suggesting that is not enough to warrant a nerf?

RocketRelmMay 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

So i guess everyone that plays [insert high pick-rate champion] is a shit that jumped on the "lel this champion is OP" wagon, while Jinx is basically the only champion that has a high amount of mains. Not to mention, her pick-rate has increased fairly recently, it wasnt always like this.

Even if you are right, you are saying a champion is mained by a third of the entire playerbase. Are you seriously suggesting that is not enough to warrant a nerf?

30% pick rate means picked 3 times out of every 10 games. Every game has 10 champions, and Jinx is 1 champion. So she'd actually be 'mained' by an entire 3% of the player base, not a third.

kokopelli2May 12, 20152 votes

/mathed

qetzelMay 12, 20151 votes

WRONG! Sorry. Firstly, not every jinx player is a jinx main. Just a larger number compared to the non mains than the majority of other champions. Secondly, there could easily be two adc mains in a game. Only one will get to play the adc. Jinx mains don't get the chance to play her every game.

Malix FarwinMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So i guess everyone that plays [insert high pick-rate champion] is a shit that jumped on the "lel this champion is OP" wagon, while Jinx is basically the only champion that has a high amount of mains. Not to mention, her pick-rate has increased fairly recently, it wasnt always like this.

Even if you are right, you are saying a champion is mained by a third of the entire playerbase. Are you seriously suggesting that is not enough to warrant a nerf?

they are when her pick rate suddenly skyrockets.

qetzelMay 12, 20151 votes

No. Not at all. Consider fractions.

Let us talk about champion X. 1/10 games this champion appears in they are played by a main. The other 9/10 think the champion is OP and so play it if they don't get their main. Let us talk about champion Y. 3/10 games this champion appears in they are played by a main. The other 7/10 think the champion is OP and so play it if they don't get their main.

Of course, there are other reasons for picking a champion. I am assuming people either play the champions they find most fun or the ones they think will win.

Now, which champion should have the higher WR?

Your answer should not depend on the PR. That doesn't matter. What matters is the proportion of players with a high level of experience.

Secondly, her PR has been high for a long time. A very long time.

3rd, maths. Jinx is picked in 30% of games. This means that she comprises 3% of champion picks (10 picks per game). Furthermore, not all of these 3% are mains. I am sure some people play her because they think she is strong, just not as many in comparison to the number who main her.

mvargusMay 12, 20151 votes

From what Riot has said Jinx has always had a high percentage of "Mains."

But your comment about it being a third of the playerbase is absurd.

There are 10 players per match a 34% pick rate means that Jinx appears in 34% of all matches.

so in 10 matches, where 100 champs total are selected. Jinx appears 3 times.

She's probably mained by no more than 3% of the player base.

Worse you are another player who doesn't get what it means to "main" an ADC.

Now I'm in silver, and I'll admit I have no idea what happens in the plat/diamond ranks, but remember that more than half of the player base is silver or bronze, so what happens down in those ranks affects the pick % and winrate.

In those ranks ADC is NOT mained by many players. In fact in the ranked games I've played I've had an ADC main on my side once. Everyone seems to fight for top/mid/jungle, and then aDC and Support are left to whoever is left. And most of the time you DON'T get Jinx picked in those games. People who don't main Jinx don't appear to pick her as often. Part I'm sure is her cost, she is 6300 IP and that's a lot for someone still getting runes and champs if they aren't going to main her.

So when you do run into a Jinx in bronze/silver ranked play it almost always is someone who has played the champ many times. And experience = wins. That is what Riot has stated.

Jinx is not broken. I've played her and I've played against her and wrecked her. There are some easy ways to defeat a Jinx player, and I've seen all of them used. Its only when you start obsessing that she's OP that she can destroy you again, and again.

My advice if you have that much of a problem defeating Jinx, either learn to play her or stop playing completely. She's not unbeatable if you take the time to learn how.

M SchumacherMay 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I'll bite. Pick-rate only matters as it gives an indication of how many players have experience on the champion. We typically expect champions with a high pick-rate to have a larger proportion of unexperienced players, and so a balanced high pick-rate champion should have a lower win-rate.

However, this is not the case with Jinx. Jinx has a much higher proportion of "mains" than other champion's have. These people are going to bring the win-rate up to above 50%. They should be winning more than they are losing if they are putting the effort into mastering a champion.

Jinx in a balanced state should therefore have a higher than average win-rate.

Happy now? Also, doesn't this thread belong on GD? It is just QQ. No helpful suggestions have been made, you haven't fairly considered Jinx's weak points and you come off as aggressive and closed minded. This from a person who has only played jinx in a custom match. Not even in ARAM.

She has no weak points, shes a hyper carry who is good at all points in the game.

And you're basically saying 30% of league players main Jinx? LOL

qetzelMay 12, 20151 votes

No. I am saying that a higher fraction of players who play Jinx are Jinx mains than the players who play other champions are.

Let's get mathsy for a moment here. 30% PR means she is picked in 30% of games. It does not mean she is picked by 30% of players.

It is all to do with fractions. Let us talk about champion X. 1/10 games this champion appears in they are played by a main. Let us talk about champion Y. 3/10 games this champion appears in they are played by a main.

Which champion should have the higher WR?

Your answer should not depend on the PR. That doesn't matter. What matters is the proportion of players with a high level of experience.

Malix FarwinMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'll bite. Pick-rate only matters as it gives an indication of how many players have experience on the champion. We typically expect champions with a high pick-rate to have a larger proportion of unexperienced players, and so a balanced high pick-rate champion should have a lower win-rate.

However, this is not the case with Jinx. Jinx has a much higher proportion of "mains" than other champion's have. These people are going to bring the win-rate up to above 50%. They should be winning more than they are losing if they are putting the effort into mastering a champion.

Jinx in a balanced state should therefore have a higher than average win-rate.

Happy now? Also, doesn't this thread belong on GD? It is just QQ. No helpful suggestions have been made, you haven't fairly considered Jinx's weak points and you come off as aggressive and closed minded. This from a person who has only played jinx in a custom match. Not even in ARAM.

i am sorry but this is pure bullshit, jinx didnt all of a sudden get a ton of mains. Her pick rate is high and her win rate is high because she is a VERY effective adc.

qetzelMay 12, 20151 votes

No. Not suddenly. She has had them for a long time now.

KagemythMay 12, 20153 votes

oh and as a side note TSM LOST THE GAME THIS CLIP IS FROM EVEN AFTER THIS RAMPAGE BY TURTLE

warpenguin555May 12, 20152 votes

tbh its not really her fault, the assassins being replaced by tanks means their is less people trying to get in and burst her now. She thrives like hell in this meta because of that

MatezoideMay 12, 20152 votes

On the other hand, her pick-rate has always been above average, while her win-rate was always on the ~53s IIRC

Not that the meta isnt good for her, but i dont think she was weak before, just riskier.

SmokinSickStyleMay 12, 20152 votes

I use assassins and with many losing silence, in a teamfight without your team hard CC (if you have any) it's IMPOSSIBLE to kill Jinx if she gets a kill because she's suddenly the fastest moving thing for the next few seconds.

Lategame Jinx is so scary it's not even funny.

M SchumacherMay 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I use assassins and with many losing silence, in a teamfight without your team hard CC (if you have any) it's IMPOSSIBLE to kill Jinx if she gets a kill because she's suddenly the fastest moving thing for the next few seconds.

Lategame Jinx is so scary it's not even funny.

Which would be fine if she didn't have a good early and mid game.

Vayne pays for her ridiculous late game by being abusable early game, but Jinx doesn't.

Best Darius KRMay 12, 20152 votes

Hahahahaha....

...no, really. Just focus her

MatezoideMay 12, 20152 votes

Leona Janna Thresh summoner 3 item 3222 while Jinx is 700 range away critting your team with 110% AD

lel, she is so easy to beat she is raping from Bronze to Diamond.

SgtCrispyMay 12, 20152 votes

Yeah I do think they need to change her crits to be calculated per champion hit and not per rocket. Being hit by a crit rocket that bounced off a tank is the dumbest shit in the world.

KagemythMay 12, 20152 votes

soo i do agree that she's really strong but you seem a lot more salty than you should be about the subject and would like the champion gutted (i dont know because you didnt offer any constructive insight into what you felt should be changed). tbh the champ is a lot of fun to play and isnt that complicated, the only real issue with her is your team has to peel for you since you have no re-position and its not THat hard to avoid her traps unless they were setup as a combo. as a jinx lover i could understand some nerfs but i dont think she is broken to the point where they need to gut her completely.

Im actually looking forward to having a constructive discussion about it if you're willing to as well :D

TheDarkT0matoMay 30, 20172 votes

Nah, jinx is fine, dont need to nerf it thank you.

Who is TaliyahMay 30, 20172 votes

Roses are red, jinx hair is blue, you commented on a 2 years old thread, shame on you.

Deep Terror NamiMay 12, 20151 votes

Nice clip.

How about one of Tristana chain Rocket Jumping to Penta a nearly dead escaping team? She can do the exact same thing even better, so please don't use that gif as defense of your position.

...anyway, they nerfed her burst by making SMDR worst than an auto attack at close range, so it's clear they are eying her for nerfs. They know exactly what her pick/ban and win rates are without anyone saying it; rest easy knowing Riot is never done balancing.

MartyrofsandMay 12, 20151 votes

I don't play Trist...or really any ADC outside of Ashe or potentially Sivir...I don't think Jinx is broken at all

TeemoJenkinsMay 12, 20151 votes

/yawn

MVDuneCatsMay 12, 20151 votes

It's hard to make a solid case that Jinx is broken based purely on win rates and popularity stats when she is only banned 1%. Compare that to Kalista, who is banned 23% with not quite a 50% win ratio.

TotN TitanMay 12, 20151 votes

I'm confused why she is any harder to lane against than any other ADC. Why does a 30% pick rate with a 53+% win rate mean she's overpowered? It's not like she's getting picked every game and I doubt she is a huge priority ban during pick/bans. I tend to find people banning out things that the pro leagues are banning out, instead of what the solo queuers are using to climb. I'm not climbing the upper echelon of the ladder, but from what I have seen, her weaknesses are completely exploitable.

She doesn't have any dashes or shields to avoid engage, so she relies entirely upon her team for protection and peel. Her flame chompers are a poor excuse for a defense against a properly executed gank. The support she is paired up with needs to be very good at keeping her standing upright, harrassing the enemy ADC, and warding for lane ganks. Early game, Jinx's positioning has to be spot on and she can be easily pushed under tower. Denying her CS is not any harder than any other ADC. But just like any late game champion, you can't let her just last hit minions and clear waves in side lanes all game without thinking she's going to dominate at the end. On top of that, if you are letting her run rampant and burning down towers uncontested, of course she is going to have a higher possibility to win.

Yes, in team fights, she can be a little difficult to deal with if she gets her passive movement boost, since she merely has to damage anything that dies. But that movement is only going to get her to close in on the weak, low health members of your team. And her peel and protection isn't moving that fast as she closes in on you. She's outrunning her defense. That exposes her to your team's damage and your own follow up. Now how you focus your spells and your abilities on her team while you wait for her to expose herself is up to you and your team. If your team is ulting tanks and wasting all your damage on non-carries, that has nothing to do with competitive unbalance of a champion.

So, not being a Jinx main, I have now commented AND downvoted you.

BemaponMay 12, 20151 votes

I dont really see whats wrong with Jinx, I never really had a problem playing against her.

Yeah she takes towers fast, shes an ADC. Yeah she does damage, shes an ADC. I also dont see how movespeed negates gapclosers. Also theres a magical thing called cc. Works wonders.