PSA: Fiora has 51% winrate.

Critmaster Garen·Jun 28, 2017·6 votes·765 views

if anything should be nerfed, its and reverted to pre tank update. half of the frustration in dealing with skirmishers and marksmen comes from these two items.

there is 0 reason to nerf her right now. shes not too powerful in overall strength. shes stong in 1v1's and shit in midgame teamfights. you literally beat her by grouping with your team and stop trying to 1v1 her.

yes, shes occationally going to carry games. shes an adc. that doesnt mean shes broken. it means shes working as intended.

35 Comments

PennsJun 28, 20172 votes

I remember when Ryze was the most broken mid laner

with like 45% win rate

lel

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I remember when Ryze was the most broken mid laner

with like 45% win rate

lel

because he had like 60%+ winrate for people who played like 300 games on him. if you mained the champion and practised him he was absolutely bonkers. but until then youd probably feed your ass off.

thats not the case for fiora either. she caps out at like 55% to 56%. thats pretty normal for most champions that arent trash.

Annie sits at around 58% for people with a lot of games on her.

im simply convinced that dealing with broken adc itemization would fix most of the frustration issues.

VęrtęxJun 28, 20171 votes

Aurelion sol +60% wr regarding mains

EssychuJun 28, 20172 votes

shes insanely stupid in laning phase as wel as out of laning phase.

all they need to do is remove the att speed reduction on her w and shes fine.

she has way too much shit in her kit and its stupid.

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pavlo Voronych,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-28T12:07:53.579+0000)

shes insanely stupid in laning phase as wel as out of laning phase.

all they need to do is remove the att speed reduction on her w and shes fine.

she has way too much shit in her kit and its stupid.

she has so much shit in her kit because shes a squishy melee adc. this is what ranged auto attacks are basically worth.

in the lane phase shes decent. but still not nearly as ridiculous as certain champions like Pantheon

if you do well, you can still outplay her on most champions. otherwise you just have to learn to play safe.

out of lane phase shes really good in 1v1s and at split pushing, but she absolutely sucks in larger fights. there is a reason a lot of fioras get fed during lane phase and then lose by midgame. because shes peeled and bursted easily in 5v5 scenarios.

ive had games where the enemy fiora won lane phase, and then her team got completely overrun because we had a better teamcomp and she couldnt transition her advantage into carrying midgame fights due to too much cc for her to deal with.

EssychuJun 28, 20172 votes

have u played vs a diamond fiora 1 trick?

have you?

whats the highest rank on the fiora uve played with and shown shes "weak"

shes broken and is perma banned.

this is for a reason.

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pavlo Voronych,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T12:14:34.366+0000)

have u played vs a diamond fiora 1 trick?

have you?

whats the highest rank on the fiora uve played with and shown shes "weak"

shes broken and is perma banned.

this is for a reason.

i think this is mostly due to the adc itemization being bullshit right now.

burst is their only counterplay. giving all adc including fiora a stronger midgame with more safety attached negates their counterplay.

if they were to revert deaths dance and g.a. they wouldnt become absurd to deal with by midgame.

item 3026 used to be typically one of the last items champions like marksmen or fiora built. right now, there is no disadvantage to building it like third item.

EssychuJun 28, 20172 votes

she doesnt even build deaths dance.

it has nothing to do with adcs.

she is broken.

she is broken

she is overloaded and braindead

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pavlo Voronych,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T12:18:22.659+0000)

she doesnt even build deaths dance.

it has nothing to do with adcs.

she is broken.

she is broken

not sure what youre smoking. deaths dance is currently core on her.

http://champion.gg/champion/Fiora/Top

check out op.gg statistics and look at her item builds.

https://euw.op.gg/champion/fiora/statistics/top

g.a. is usually the third item she builds right now, and deaths dance is the highest winrate item in her build. do you think this is a fucking coincidence?

TEA Nietzsche Jun 28, 20171 votes

Nah DD is not: http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Fiora

It's situational but most pro's do not build it so I wouldn't care too much about what most people buy on her.

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=AI LMAO ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T12:51:28.364+0000)

Nah DD is not: http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Fiora

It's situational but most pro's do not build it so I wouldn't care too much about what most people buy on her.

im sorry i didnt know anyone on the boards here played in the LCS.

because otherwise the most common build in solo que including higher divisions includes g.a. as third item, and deaths dance as situational third or fourth item or so.

EssychuJun 28, 20171 votes

"situational"

u just said it yourself.

u can build anything on fiora and still do well.

TEA Nietzsche Jun 28, 20171 votes

These are soloQ games. Played by pros.

???

Exactly my point, DD is a situational item on Fiora. No clue why you don't just agree..

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=AI LMAO ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-28T13:16:58.621+0000)

These are soloQ games. Played by pros.

???

Exactly my point, DD is a situational item on Fiora. No clue why you don't just agree..

its a situational item, but g.a. and deaths dance are still part of the problem.

they make champions burst resistant that arent supposed to be. without any tradeoff in damage.

why wouldnt it make sense to deal with these items first and foremost before looking at the champion? its basically a feral flare situation.

maybe the items should be dealt with first before the champion is touched.

TEA Nietzsche Jun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-28T13:19:29.922+0000)

its a situational item, but g.a. and deaths dance are still part of the problem.

If a champion is too strong it's certainly not because of some situational item - because if the item was so broken it would make a champion too strong it would obviously be core.

they make champions burst resistant that arent supposed to be. without any tradeoff in damage.

Well there is obviously a tradeoff and that is the price. Why do you think champions like Kha don't build it despite him having one of the highest single target damage that is not an autoattack? It's because the item is too expensive to snowball assassins properly.

Also, what champions are you talking about? It's core on Riven, Draven and Illaoi - all other builds are rather situational or niche. People tried to build it on Lucian etc. but turns out that it's simply not strong enough unless you synergize perfectly with it (like the 3 aforementioned do).

Another thing is this: before 7.9 only Illaoi actually build the item, it was niche at best on all other champions. And now look at her winrate, it dropped from 7.8 to 7.9.

Looking at it objectively Deaths Dance is the single most overrated item in LoL balance history. Practically nobody builds it but everyone complains.

why wouldnt it make sense to deal with these items first and foremost before looking at the champion? its basically a feral flare situation.

How is this a feral flare situation? Feral flare made everyone roflstomp OP who built it - and those who built it did so every single game. Deaths Dance is good on 3 champions and niche at best on a few others. Only 1 of those 3 champions seems OP (Draven) and that is because crit itemization did also get changed in his favor.

EssychuJun 28, 20171 votes

fiora was always disgusting?

dd didnt change shit except make her more of a problem?

its not the fucking item its the champion?

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pavlo Voronych,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-28T12:59:43.364+0000)

?

fiora was always disgusting?

dd didnt change shit except make her more of a problem?

its not the fucking item its the champion?

interesting post coming from a riven 1 trick.

isnt fiora in lane still a skill matchup for riven? i dont know why youre complaining about her really. you should definitely be able to beat her in case you outplay her.

funny that you complain so much about her, when the champions are so similar.

EssychuJun 28, 20171 votes

she is a skill matchup.

shes still broken.

she has the advantage because even if she misuses her w its going to slow my att speed and she will still beat me.

she needs to get something removed.

she has too much.

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pavlo Voronych,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T13:08:16.322+0000)

she is a skill matchup.

shes still broken.

she has the advantage because even if she misuses her w its going to slow my att speed and she will still beat me.

she needs to get something removed.

she has too much.

shes broken based on what?

she has as much as riven to work with, hence why its an even matchup. to my experience it doesnt matter if one of the two is slightly ahead in lane even.

if one of them outplays the other, hes still going to win the fight. and a good riven can generally carry games just as well as fiora can.

EssychuJun 28, 20171 votes

riven does true damage with 4 procs that heal and let her do circles around the enemy?

riven heals off q procs in the middle of lane for 20 mana?

dont compare the 2.

if i wasnt a riven 1 trick i would hate fiora more since she dicks anyone that isnt riven/darius super hard.

im speaking on behalf of all of the people who dont main riven and saying fiora is a busted cancer that needs to be nerfed.

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pavlo Voronych,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T13:12:53.098+0000)

riven does true damage with 4 procs that heal and let her do circles around the enemy?

no, but she has an instant cast stun and a knockup. fioras only cc is an attack speed slow with a long animation time, unless she hits a good riposte.

riven heals off q procs in the middle of lane for 20 mana?

no, she doesnt pay mana at all and has an ad scaling shield on a pretty low cooldown.

dont compare the 2.

but they are comparable. they have different strength, but theyre both mobile skirmishers that are about equal in strength.

EssychuJun 28, 20171 votes

she isnt comparable to fiora in any way.

in any way.

none of their skills are even close to comparable.

im not here to compare these champs im here to point out that fiora is cancer.

remove the w att speed and her laning is healthy.

till then dont lie and say shes weak because the stats dont lie when it comes to the bans.

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pavlo Voronych,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T13:15:32.469+0000)

im not here to compare these champs im here to point out that fiora is cancer.

well you havent made a convincing point yet.

all youve been doing is ranting.

EssychuJun 28, 20171 votes

am i really the one ranting when you've left the fiora balance convo completely comparing my champ with her and asking if its a skill matchup?

am i the one ranting when ive already told u what needs to be balanced and ur ignoring it to try to make this convo about something else?

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pavlo Voronych,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-28T13:20:24.605+0000)

am i really the one ranting when you've left the fiora balance convo completely comparing my champ with her and asking if its a skill matchup?

am i the one ranting when ive already told u what needs to be balanced and ur ignoring it to try to make this convo about something else?

im making the conversation about the items. what im wondering is, why youd think fiora is broken, when riven is pretty much the same in strength when it comes to her laning and her carrying potential by midgame.

why is fiora a problem, when riven is not? both champions have similar power curves and are mobile skirmishers who have similar strengths.

yes, there are differences between their kits. but fiora isnt stronger than riven as a 1v1 champion or splitpusher. id even say she performs more reliable in teamfights.

EssychuJun 28, 20171 votes

riven doesnt have a good laning phase lol.

80 percent of the top roster shits on her and this is the first patch that playing riven in lane felt decent.

dorans shield was the best thing for riven because it actually allowed her to farm and be useful against shit like pantheon/renekton who snowball off their disgustingly stupid stats.

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pavlo Voronych,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2017-06-28T13:24:16.116+0000)

riven doesnt have a good laning phase lol.

80 percent of the top roster shits on her and this is the first patch that playing riven in lane felt decent.

dorans shield was the best thing for riven because it actually allowed her to farm and be useful against shit like pantheon/renekton who snowball off their disgustingly stupid stats.

the same champions are shitting on fiora though. whats the difference?

both champions have almost exactly the same bad lane matchups. in fact, pantheon destroys fiora generally even harder than he destroys riven.

youre constantly just repeating that fiora is "disgusting" and "broken". you have yet to even give a reason as to why.

Critmaster GarenJun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pavlo Voronych,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PeVEcPeZ,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2017-06-28T13:24:16.116+0000)

riven doesnt have a good laning phase lol.

80 percent of the top roster shits on her and this is the first patch that playing riven in lane felt decent.

dorans shield was the best thing for riven because it actually allowed her to farm and be useful against shit like pantheon/renekton who snowball off their disgustingly stupid stats.

the thing is, you may have misunderstood me.

i dont think EITHER of the two champions is a problem. and i think melee carries have a place in this game. im playing far more against fiora than im playing her myself. its actually rather rare that i pick her up.

but it just anoys me that every time a melee carry is performing well. not just op, just ok. people lose their shit and cry for nerfs.

like objectively, the recent yasuo nerfs were uneccessary. while i like the fact that they reduced the timer on his nado, they should have given him some sort of compensation with it.

if anything is a problem right now, its that adc itemization in general is currently complete bullshit.

EssychuJun 28, 20171 votes

u misunderstood me as well.

of course adc itemization is cancer but what im talking about is fiora.

she needs her w att speed removed.

thats all she needs.

thats all i want removed.

nothing else

PePsiLemoNNJun 28, 20171 votes

You know someone is tilted when he calls Fiora braindead

DaNinadJun 28, 20171 votes

Here's the thing, pantheon falls off hard, Fiora doesn't.

AhristocatsJun 28, 20171 votes

and lee had 49% win rate when nerfed

your point?

Rockm SockmJun 28, 20171 votes

You are clearly biased. Measure her against her class of champion. I am clearly biased because I prefer Jax and tryn. Refusing to play fiora because I find her boring is a massive detriment to my team.

She has THE best laning phase of not only duelist, but almost all top laners. She has zero hard counters.

She has hyper scaling, and is strong at all points of the game.

She is better in a teamfight than all other duelists.

Fiora does everything better than Jax, tryn, Xin and any duelist/diver.

My boy Azir was gutted for half of this.