Stop nerfing Evelynn. She's not even in a bad place right now.

Rew711·Sep 30, 2015·98 votes·4,639 views

She may be at a 51.45% win rate but her play rate is also at 6.2%. That's not very high, and definitely not as high as Vayne's. So why are you making her W cost 40 mana? That's the last thing I ever want to see while Vayne's ultimate costs 80 mana. This is not only going to hurt her in-game but will make it harder on already evelynn mains and possibly stop future evelynn mains (or players in general). Nerf some other (actually popular) champion this hard for once. Like when you nerfed Azir or Yasuo. I know that Blitzcrank, Fiora, Jinx, Thresh, and Vi are good contenders for a nerf.

116 Comments

Count ZubatSep 30, 201526 votes

Riot seems to hate Eve, unfortunately we have to accept that fact.

Karn BishopSep 30, 201514 votes

We shouldn't though since this change will dumpster her, heck any change will restore her to eve tier because her base stats are all so low that any nerfs to them instantly causes her to not function as a champion. Heck all eve's both AP and AD run the same rune page which is Attack damage reds, armor yellows, ap blues, and AP quints. Not because we wish to but because no other rune cominbation allows us to safely clear our jungle without dying.

It's also the same reason most eve's take ignite, not to secure a kill though that helps but to prevent people from locking in heavy super invaders to kill you its literally a HI i have ignite so either invade me perfectly or die and give up first blood warning message.

AnidanOct 1, 20154 votes

Riot has no idea how to balance Stealth at the moment, so any champion with Stealth is getting screwed pretty hard right now as a direct result of that, barring Rengar (and even then Rengar has also paid for his Stealth). So until they figure out how to balance stealth in this game, then you kinda do have to accept the fact, unfortunately.

I don't normally like to denigrate people, but screw it: this Balance team is godawful at balancing Stealth mechanics. There has never been an iteration that has been considered healthy, because this game practically can't allow for Stealth like DotA does. The reason being that Riot simply has no idea what to do with it; they made a game based around out-playing your opponents and so everyone with stealth has the ultimate trump card because if you can't see what they're doing you can't out-play or out-maneuver them, just as you can't out-maneuver your own shadow. "Trying to hit me is like boxing with shadows" ring any bells? This game has no Dust of Appearance, it has no Bounty Hunter ulti, or Slardar ulti, or Bloodseeker Thirst, nor does it have Gem of True Sight (RIP Oracle's Elixir, casualty of the Ward Wars) or comparatively extremely cheap and plentiful Vision Wards. This game practically can't allow for Stealth and frankly I'm amazed that the Balance Team hasn't recognized this and properly removed it - I mean, they removed its greatest counters, so what are we to do in its stead?

Karn BishopSep 30, 201522 votes

Here is my issue with it, they built eves entire kit around this ability being free of charge and now they are slapping a mana cost on it, also keep in mind this is a reset ability so its not just 40 mana, its 100+ mana over the course of a small engage combined with the mana costs for Q + E will mean eve cannot make use of her extended mobility to pick up a kill, instead we have to recall because were OOM after casting W.

Rew711Sep 30, 20156 votes

If they are going to do this, her passive, Q, E, and/or even her R need buffs. She possibly needs one of the following for a compensation:

A revert on her passive to allow 1% missing mana, mana regen
A stronger base or ratio or lower cost on her Q
A stronger base, ratio, or lower cost on her E
A stronger base (15/22.5/30% enemy health), higher ratio (3% from 1%), lower cost, or less time to cast

This is a really unneeded and stupid nerf. And for such a nerf, compensation will need to be followed so that she does not fall behind. (They could had at least made it 5 mana to 20 mana per use)

Karn BishopSep 30, 20152 votes

I'd honestly prefer a revert on the travel speed nerf of Q, it used to be unavoidable bu they made it so you could out walk it instead.

Besides W already had counter play which is why this new change confuses me, use it early to gap close and risk getting exhausted or CC'd, don't use it and risk chasing for too long and getting caught out and dying.

SeekêrOct 1, 20152 votes

She has 2% of her mana per second atm, doesnt she?

lolipopevelynnOct 1, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Orphic Greed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PbkJoG4y,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2015-10-01T01:17:11.106+0000)

She has 2% of her mana per second atm, doesnt she?

while out of combat... completely pointless as far as her W nerf is concerned because you will be using it primarly in combat.

SeekêrOct 1, 20151 votes

she has a pretty decent mana pool. 40 mana for the first time to negate a slow, 40 after you kill carry, that is about 4 q's, you spent about 250 just to kill the carry.

Yea, I guess I can see how that adds up to be a pretty big nerf in team fights. But i think it is being blown out of proportion. Many eve players already build frozen heart anyway, which gives plenty of mana. Also, runeglaive evelynn has infinite mana sustain in jungle. So unless you don't know how to use her passive well when farming or rotating to gank a lane, then I don't see it being nearly as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.

xFrostKnightxOct 1, 20158 votes

It's a problem because she's underwhelming.

If your ability to swim in water was an indication of a champions power.

Evelyn would be 1m under the water.

Meanwhile someone like Wu who is flexible with match ups is hovering over the water.

While Evelyn is more situational pick and even then, when the pick favours her, the WinRate does not reflect it.

There is no need to nerf a champion that does not need it. Just because you can say "it's not that bad" and explain it, it's just another disadvantage thrown on the pile.

They tried to nerf Evelyn's damage recently, she couldn't even solo 2 camps. Where other junglers easily solo 3 + Have the hp for a gank or finish every camp (5) not counting the first leash.

Riot hates Evelyn, change her invincibility to work differently instead of nerfing her every single patch.

SeekêrOct 1, 20156 votes

I definitely agree with the nerf being absolutely random. She isn't exceptionally strong nor is she popular. The nerf is akin to the kassadin range nerf. Kicking a champion when they really dont need it xD.

yay nibbersOct 1, 20159 votes

If they slap a mana cost onto her W they need to give back its passive movespeed you get from hitting spells at the very least.

The Yetii RiderOct 1, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PbkJoG4y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-30T23:11:34.177+0000)

Here is my issue with it, they built eves entire kit around this ability being free of charge and now they are slapping a mana cost on it, also keep in mind this is a reset ability so its not just 40 mana, its 100+ mana over the course of a small engage combined with the mana costs for Q + E will mean eve cannot make use of her extended mobility to pick up a kill, instead we have to recall because were OOM after casting W.

They gave her an item that gives her 200 extra max mana that she didn't have before. Chill out.

AazzlanoOct 1, 201514 votes

Yeah I've mained her for 3 years and lived through repeated nerfs but this will be the nail in the coffin for me. This is a total gut nerf more than people realize.

I mean why waste time and effort playing and maining Eve who just gets nerfed over and over and over when I can just play some FOTM OP.

RebonackSep 30, 20155 votes

Riot just needs to remake her instead of slowly bleeding her to death.

The previous remake was a massive failure.

At this point I would rather have nerfed to hell stunless Old Eve back.

SaphixiaOct 1, 20155 votes

I used to be a eve main but now i only play her sometimes, but when i do play her, everyone says, "OMG Eveylnn is SOOOOOOOO OP like you cant see her when she ganks, so unfair. And her w gives her mobility? Thats SO UNFAir!" Yeah, it doesnt have anything to do with the fact that i mained her, or the fact that you didnt buy any item 2043 , Or the fact that you are either playing yasuo or vayne and were caught out of position, or the fact i already have 5 kills.

HorrowOct 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

or the fact that you didnt buy any item 2043

I hate arguments like this. You say this as if Pink Wards are allowed to stay. News flash, they're not. If someone sees you come into lane with a pink on hand, they're going to be ready to destroy it, especially when Eve is on the team. Pink wards have a pathetic life span when they're placed in the areas that they're needed.

SaphixiaOct 1, 20153 votes

Yeah but if im the only one ganking on our team then most pink wards arent found. plus they dont buy any so they wouldnt know that

Support EvelynnOct 1, 20155 votes

Diamond Eve main here, over 600 games on this account and over 200 with smurfs this season alone.

This nerf is going to heavily impact her skirmishing and teamfighting ability, and it'll make it incredibly difficult to jump in and out of fights since now you have to worry about the mana cost on your W resets. If they want to add a manacost to this ability they need to heavily reduce the mana cost on her other abilities.

Otherwise this change will make her feel very bad to play, this was her only safety net in fights and now it's gone.

SpecterVonBarenOct 1, 20155 votes

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT! Wait.

"That's the last thing I ever want to see while Vayne's ultimate costs 80 mana."

(Checks wiki) REALLY?!

DengedenOct 1, 20154 votes

Is this a troll post?

You shoulda mentioned Vayne in every sentence, that woulda made the post funnier. Her pick rate is low because there's a lot of junglers that players can choose from. Unlike the ADCs who always had a select few top tier picks. Besides, this will only affect the 3 Eve players who don't build runeglaive.

Like when you nerfed Azir or Yasuo.

Yasuo got nerfed because the community whined about him. He's Teemo level bad now. Don't mention him again.

I know that Blitzcrank, Fiora, Jinx, Thresh, and Vi are good contenders for a nerf.

I find it painfully ironic that the people who complained about Blitz W being useless are complaining about how strong he is. Jinx and Vi already got nerfed and are you kidding me with Vi? Thresh is just FotM for the community and is completely balanced... and you're right about Fiora.

Support EvelynnOct 1, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Is this a troll post?

Besides, this will only affect the 3 Eve players who don't build runeglaive.

Then it shows how dumb you are because this isn't a clear nerf, but a team fight and skirmishing nerf.

ZedexOct 1, 20153 votes

"She's not even in a bad place right now."

Then explain why they would nerf Eve. Contrary to your belief, they do not nerf champions for no reason or, "just because"

She has very strong ganks and I'm assuming her no cost "escape" was deemed as too safe for the lowest counterplay ganker in the game.

Is this going to ruin the champion? Not by a longshot, they didnt even touch her greatest strength, they gave her an extra weakness which is very deserved considering her passives mechanic.

And regardless of my disagreement towards your sentiments, its still the PBE. If they find this nerf is too harsh (which a diamond eve main considers it to be in this thread) then I'm sure they'll revert it and try to hit another area to make her slightly weaker. PBE is never set in stone, especially on a brand new cycle that started in the past 2 days.

Ferus and FerrumOct 1, 20158 votes

As someone who played a lot of eve in season 4 when she was probably at her most popular and being nerfed every other patch, I disagree with the changes somewhat. I can attest that if you want to snowball a game almost single handedly eve is the pick for you, but also consider her cons. Shitty base damage (balance team made sure of that after tank eve got real popular), increased mana costs, is not naturally tanky/ item dependent as fuck. Her jungle clear is also terrible no matter which smite you take. She was a champ that benefited the most from spirit stone and was pretty bad after it got removed.

What sucks about this change is that her mana regen only occurs outside of combat and it honestly isn't that good mainly because riot just tacked it onto her passive.

Riot tried to nerf eves damage last patch and it didn't go through for several reasons, but the main thing is that the community is sick of the nerfs. the last time she was buffed was because her jungle clear at the start of the season was so bad she would die to the camps.

Will this nerf ruin her? No, however its less about the champ here and more about rito kicking some other champs around for a change.

RIP Kassawin

Support EvelynnOct 1, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Will this nerf ruin her? No

If she doesn't get mana buffs elsewhere it will, she won't have the mana sustain for fights at all.

Red RyuOct 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PbkJoG4y,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2015-10-01T05:23:50.098+0000)

If she doesn't get mana buffs elsewhere it will, she won't have the mana sustain for fights at all.

Is she really with her passive giving mana back? Lets say she doesn't run runeglave, if she really gonna go OoM easily in team fights? I'm not an idiot to Eve though, granted I don't get to player her in Ranked as much over Team builder where I have been trying to get to lvl 5 mastery with her but I don't think the OoM issue is that bad,

I don't think mid fight given that and if he builds runeglave I have a harder timing thinking she will run out of mana. All this does is push away from builds that don't go the route.

Support EvelynnOct 1, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PbkJoG4y,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-01T05:51:54.761+0000)

Is she really with her passive giving mana back?

I don't think mid fight given that and if he builds runeglave I have a harder timing thinking she will run out of mana.

All this does is push away from builds that don't go the route.

Runeglaive mana is only for clearing. You're gonna run out of mana very fast in mid game skirmishes.

Red RyuOct 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PbkJoG4y,comment-id=000b0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-01T05:52:52.609+0000)

Runeglaive mana is only for clearing. You're gonna run out of mana very fast in mid game skirmishes.

The mana you get from building it and her passive mana regen she gets in her kit.

I don't think she will be running out of mana that badly from what I have played of her unless you are doing non stop fighting with no one dying.

Support EvelynnOct 1, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PbkJoG4y,comment-id=000b00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-01T06:00:01.868+0000)

The mana you get from building it and her passive mana regen she gets in her kit.

I don't think she will be running out of mana that badly from what I have played of her unless you are doing non stop fighting with no one dying.

You can't really utilize your passive in fights until maybe late game when the CD on her passive is super low, even then it'll be for such a short time.

UirayaOct 1, 20153 votes

I'd like to see Riot admit that they simply don't want people playing Eve, but they can't actually delete her and they don't care enough to rework her (AGAIN). Because that is the absolute truth, and hearing it for once would be nice.

Getting Eve to rank 5 was agonizing. It was almost as bad as Sona.

DessemOct 1, 20153 votes

I love using W to increase my clearing speeds and dash around my jungle inbetween ganks. I guess Riot just really wants Evelynn to be nerfed. They buffed Evelynn's Q damage in preparation for nerfing it harder than it was buffed, but now they're just dropping the elegance and straight-up nerfing Evelynn because... apparently she's too strong in her kit?

More and more it feels like Riot doesn't want Evelynn to be played, since they're exploring nerfs that either make her completely unviable (weakening her nuke because she bursts too hard for an assassin, wot?) or make her feel terrible to play (because an ability that was free to use for ages now suddenly needs to cost 40 Mana).

Evelynn needs to be nerfed. Meanwhile, Annie's been allowed to hold on to her stun infinitely since forever. Because that's more healthy than Evelynn having no Mana cost on a long cooldown ability.

TwitchInMyPantsOct 1, 20153 votes

While I don't think its unreasonable to nerf Eve I honestly feel she's pretty balanced in her current state and really shouldn't be messed with. She's an assassin/bruiser in a similar vein to Diana but with less cc and mobility for more damage and her stealth. And really her stealth is pretty easy to counterplay given you can see her when in range and invasive warding lets you know where she's going to be and without her ult she's squishier than most champs in the game. She has a lot of counterplay, she's not incredibly strong, and there are many, many more toxic kits in the game that are much more impactful right now. Even if at competitive level she's proving to be a good pick she's not top pick/ban and simply adding that mana cost to w is going to force her to be more passive, leave this last nerf as is for a while.

SaltiestHealerOct 2, 20153 votes

See the thing is that early on, Eve can't set up a gank pre-6 which means her laners have to do it. Which means you were already out of position for any other jungler to come in after and do exactly what Eve does but with cc attatched.

SeekêrOct 1, 20152 votes

I was a mord main and was having a hard time finding a new champion to spam(I don't enjoy the new mord). I play normals, Im a casual and I just play with friends. Discovered eve about 2 weeks ago and I am loving every game I play as her. Her W is one of my favorite things. Run into carry, kill. Run into next. KIll. Repeat It is very fun and the reset makes kills feel rewarding ^_^.

I am not someone with 100+ games as eve so my opinion doesnt matter much. But with runeglaive, you have plenty of mana sustain in fights anyway. I dont see w mana cost being a huge deal. It just gives more reason to pick frozen heart over randuins omen as a tank item.

DessemOct 1, 20157 votes

But with runeglaive, you have plenty of mana sustain in fights anyway.

Except Runeglaive only restores Mana when hitting jungle camps, not when hitting minions or champions.

CasterGilgameshOct 1, 20152 votes

well riot hates her and we really cant do anything to stop it lets have a moment of silence for her brother in arms Kassadin

MackburtonOct 1, 20152 votes

Well, that ends it for me. I just started learning Eve recently and was having some fun. I didn't do all that wonderful, but she was a fun champ regardless. Now I won't even bother thinking about picking her.

lolipopevelynnOct 1, 20151 votes

I already know how to get past it honestly. eve is an extremely flexible champion.

I honestly believe AD is the best way to play her despite many eve players hating the idea. item 3042 Or item 3508 isnt a bad item on her

likewise for AP builds item 3040 isnt either. she wouldnt go OOM as easily as some think, however it does limit her build choices by quite a bit which is the main issue i feel... item 3508 + item 3930 is particularly very powerful for mana regen anyway...

that being said, general no mana option AP or AD builds or even brusier builds will be completely unplayable. some sort of mana item will be mandatory, and even then it will STILL feel bad regardless.

SalidfingersOct 1, 20151 votes

Only problem i have with those items is that build order/select pick is vary important on eve and those items will just hold her back further.

I need Damage, No i need Mana, No i need defense. You will always need something and it will never be enough.

Eve is at a point that whatever is nerfed she literally Done. If anything she is popular enough champion to be played consistently through nerfs as a player favorite. So she should be first for a rework.

Or they can just make pink wards invisible again and put a longer up time on red trinkets

Red RyuOct 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Only problem i have with those items is that build order/select pick is vary important on eve and those items will just hold her back further.

I need Damage, No i need Mana, No i need defense. You will always need something and it will never be enough.

Eve is at a point that whatever is nerfed she literally Done. If anything she is popular enough champion to be played consistently through nerfs as a player favorite. So she should be first for a rework.

Or they can just make pink wards invisible again and put a longer up time on red trinkets

You mean, like building one way has trade offs vs other ways?

Like actually gameplay and choice?

Which is why I do like Eve, she has a lot of choices in her builds.

NostolgicSkiesOct 1, 20151 votes

I main eve and honestly I don't agree with the changes, however I don't believe the nerf is directed at eve but more at nerfing devour enchant by giving eve a mana cost it semi forces u into rune glaive now for the mana making u decide between mana and burst or E's on hit stacking burst you got with the raw power of devour. I imagine more devour user Champs will see similar nerfs or changes to help balance out jungle enchant diversity

SalidfingersOct 1, 20152 votes

.... Eve is not a farmer she is a ganker. Plus she is not a duelist, but a great stalker.

Dev is shitty on eve and the people who do get it I've never seen do well other than get carried. This item 3116 is what makes eve vary strong.

Time your spells and smite right no one can run away from you.

NostolgicSkiesOct 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

.... Eve is not a farmer she is a ganker. Plus she is not a duelist, but a great stalker.

Dev is shitty on eve and the people who do get it I've never seen do well other than get carried. This is what makes eve vary strong.

Time your spells and smite right no one can run away from you.

And one could believe that had they not made it so her E applies on hit effects so with devour,momentum, and iceborn , and botrk eve's E can almost one shot any adc,asn, and geranlly most mage pending their build all the while getting the tank stats to engage and sustain hate spikes throughout team fights and gives more pressure then the one hit wonder ap eve build offers

Support EvelynnOct 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

And one could believe that had they not made it so her E applies on hit effects so with devour,momentum, and iceborn eve's E can almost one shot any adc,asn, and geranlly most mage pending their build all the while getting the tank stats to engage and sustain hate spikes throughout team fights and gives more pressure then the one hit wonder a eve build offers

Devourer Eve can't oneshot ADCs or Mages. She has the capability of running them down like other bruisers but her burst is underwhelming compared to irelia who has more tools to get to her target.

NostolgicSkiesOct 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PbkJoG4y,comment-id=0011000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-01T05:37:40.366+0000)

Devourer Eve can't oneshot ADCs or Mages. She has the capability of running them down like other bruisers but her burst is underwhelming compared to irelia who has more tools to get to her target.

With sated devour and the stated items in previous post eve's E will deal at the start of a fight at 8% dmg based on health x2 from botrk, 200dmg from momentum proc x2, 100% ad dmh from iceborn x2 and the magic dmg from devour pending it's scaled dmg x2. That doesn't include the dmg from eve's actual E that's just the extra dmg u stack in on hit effects then factor in her ults immediate % health removal and the bortk. Active plus at least 3 to 4 hates spikes more if u can orb walk them with iceborn proc your gonna at least one shot your first target hands down (my bad u won't one shot them you will 100-0 them in about 1 to 2 seconds flat)

Support EvelynnOct 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

With sated devour and the stated items in previous post eve's E will deal at the start of a fight at 8% dmg based on health x2 from botrk, 200dmg from momentum proc x2, 100% ad dmh from iceborn x2 and the magic dmg from devour pending it's scaled dmg x2. That doesn't include the dmg from eve's actual E that's just the extra dmg u stack in on hit effects then factor in her ults immediate % health removal and the bortk. Active plus at least 3 to 4 hates spikes more if u can orb walk them with iceborn proc your gonna at least one shot your first target hands down

I know the damage, I've played it quite a bit. It's an ok-ish bruiser build but it falls off, as does every other bruiser build she has. I prefer Warrior for AD for the early pressure.

SalidfingersOct 1, 20152 votes

I agree with you, but lets be honest. Any build of eve's falls off late game.

The trick of eve is literally ganking harder and better then any other jungler so your team can carry you before 40 mins.

For Nostolgicskies;

Knowing this and focusing more on farm then predicting a counter gank can put you into the 40 min mark for a lost. Yes you can still win, but the chances get worst and worst.

Red RyuOct 1, 20151 votes

Personally from what I have played of Eve, I do not like Devourer on her because it's not worth giving up early pressure to stack it up.

Any of the other three sound more appealing, and I have never built Cinderhulk on her like some have in the past. I prefer Warrior and Runeglave, mostly runeglave.

Depends what I need and what my team needs between the two, granted 95% of the time I do Runeglave.

Support EvelynnOct 1, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PbkJoG4y,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2015-10-01T06:02:42.585+0000)

Personally from what I have played of Eve, I do not like Devourer on her because it's not worth giving up early pressure to stack it up.

Any of the other three sound more appealing, and I have never built Cinderhulk on her like some have in the past. I prefer Warrior and Runeglave, mostly runeglave.

Depends what I need and what my team needs between the two, granted 95% of the time I do Runeglave.

Runeglaive is without a doubt the best option for Evelynn. AD with Warrior into trinity is still good if you need more physical damage and eventually wish to itemize a lot of tank. Her AD build is also the fastest.