You aren't changing Zeke's Herald. In fact, the only similarity is Zeke in the name. You making a complete new item here.
You guys should just change it to say Harbinger and keep the original Zeke's Herald. The new item is nice, but majority of supports would rather Zeke's Herald. So, why not have both?
Rinky Dinky36 votes"Majority of Supports would rather take Zekes"
lol these forums crack me up
B1naryB0t8 votesButbut, think of when i play 
blowy-blowy girl?
y wuld i take mana, ap, and armor over health? health is the best defensive stat ever, perfect for tank blowy-blowy girl
y wuld i give 1 ally 20% ap or 50% crit? i can give ALL allies 10% lifesteal and 20 ad. thats what mages want, for when spells are off cd.
Rew7113 votesBut... It does benefit Janna... You can build AP, build this random item, and now your E gives +50 (+10% AP) +20 AD. You can give past 110 AD easily. And the cool down is -20% rather than just -10%. It may not seem like much, but it can help.
Hyrum Graff2 votesBut... It does benefit Janna... You can build AP, build this random item, and now your E gives +50 (+10% AP) +20 AD. You can give past 110 AD easily. And the cool down is -20% rather than just -10%. It may not seem like much, but it can help.
I think you missed the /s.
JC DarkOmen1 voteshey, this is serious. all 7 of the people who (purposefully) build Zeke's Herald are freaking out
Kuroi8623 votesThe new item is nice, but majority of supports would rather Zeke's Herald.
This made me lol. Tried looking up the build rate for the item, couldn't find a site that gave it above a 0% build rate...
Ironclad Dragon17 votesI've never seen someone build Zeke's Herald. It's very niche.
Rew7116 votesI build it on my supports all the time. I even see how it gives a (amazing) bonus to my ADC and others. That extra 10% life steal is nice to have when you are going head on with the other ADC + support. My support can get up to 38% with the core items like BotRK, BloodThirster, and Essence Reaver. I can push it to 48%, easy. And from a good distance too.
DrinkMoreWhiskey3 votesI build it on my supports all the time. I even see how it gives a (amazing) bonus to my ADC and others. That extra 10% life steal is nice to have when you are going head on with the other ADC + support. My support can get up to 38% with the core items like BotRK, BloodThirster, and Essence Reaver. I can push it to 48%, easy. And from a good distance too.
It's a noob trap... looks at your profile
Yep everything here checks out.
Rew7113 votesOne day, in my next 10 years of playing. I'll go from noob to semi-good player. Until then, I'll just win games with no Runes and building stuff like this.
Sozan54 votesExcept that Zeke is not a noob trap...
You really get your money's worth for this item... The gold efficiency might be the best in the game, maybe outside fully stacked Sword of the Occult and Mejai Soulstealer.
I can't say I build this item often, but I tend to build it if we are ahead on lane - especially if I took a few kills as a support. The only downside this item have is the fact that it's a cheap item, so it might be somewhat slot inefficient in late game.
Frikgeek2 votesIt really is a noob trap as most people on your team won't even be able to use the 20 AD and 10% lifesteal they've been given. Toplaners and are mostly tanks or ability-based bruisers. Some of them might be able to use the AD but most of them deal more damage with their abilities than their autoattacks. AD assassin midlaners aren't very common so you'll end up with 1 person(the adc) being able to fully utilise the item.
A righteous glory, Talisman, or even a real tank item like Randuin's would be a lot better for a support.
DrinkMoreWhiskey1 votesLol you mean you build it when you play support renkton in normals? lmfao .... Yea you got me it's not a noob trap
Sozan53 votesSee? It's a very effective item when you are playing support Renekton. And honestly - he's not that bad of a support (I was surprised myself).
Regardless... This is not a noob item, as there are situations in which it's good - it's just a very niche item and you need to know when to build it.
CubedJustice3 votesWhy would you build essence reaver? Like, ever? I remember there was a Korean player who had this crazy ADC ezreal build in it, and before that, blue ezreal, but other than specifically on that, Essence Reaver is horrible.
Davy Crockett1 votesI build it if there's an aatrox, im in an off-meta support, or i have nothing else to buy.
brad13 votesI've never seen someone build Zeke's Herald. It's very niche.
fucking shit ive never seen anyone build god damn 
but lets remove zeke's because nobody builds it
The Bíg Ticket2 votesI build it all the time on Jax and Kayle...they completely wreck with that item.
BlunterMonk6 votes is very good on supports I find. I build it :D
B1naryB0t2 votesTo be fair, Riot has said that they don't like auras because they're invisible power. Especially since their only interaction is standing near someone.
OJ1912 votesI've never seen someone build Zeke's Herald. It's very niche.
I built it almost every single game when I was support if we had more than one champion that likes AD autoattacks, not early on but it's a nice finisher when everyone is approaching full builds and you already have crucible and shit.
Though with how stupidly one sided games have been since what feels like forever now, usually I never get to build it. But in those rare close games the extra vamp has often been what tips the scales.
Ulquiorra9951 votesAnd that isn't the reason to remove it. New "Zeke's Herald" is a completely different item -new build path, stats, active... Hell, even the new icon and name. Give me one valid reason why we shouldn't keep both. Or niche items should not exist in this game?
Noam Braumsky1 votesNiche implies it's useful in certain circumstances.
Caeler7 votesZeke's Herald is problematic in that the stats it gives on its own aren't enough to justify buying it. Supports can't make good use of the AD or the lifesteal and the CDR often goes to waste due to the high amount of CDR support items. Other roles have far better appealing items that they can buy. The item is a waste of a slot on the champions that could make good use of the aura and completely terrible on any champion that isn't AD. It's bad on supports because the stats and build path are terrible. It's bad on damage dealers because it doesn't give that much damage. For a support it'd be like if your Irelia top built Abyssal so that your all magic damage team could do more damage.
The only time Zeke's is worth buying is if you have 3+ physical damage dealers on your team who would heavily benefit from it. Even then, though, it's usually still not worth building over other items. It's a weird situation where the only time the item is really effective is when the other four members of your team are all AD. The problem with this is that your team will all be dealing the same type of damage, so the enemy team will just itemize accordingly and hard counter your team. Making full use of Zeke's usually means you have a terrible teamcomp.
Neither the aura nor the stats have leeway to be buffed. The item is already gold efficient on its own. If you nerf the stats to buff the aura, you only further drive it into its niche. If you nerf the aura to buff the stats, then there really becomes no reason to take it over other items that give the same stats with better utility. If you just buff it, then everybody will start taking it because of its gold efficiency. It could be made better for supports by switching some of the cooldown reduction to more health, but this doesn't change any of its core problems.
The new Zeke's is a far better step in the right direction for multiple reasons.
First: It still retains the "damage boost" that the previous aura gave albeit as a charging method instead of a constant aura. It only loses out on the lifesteal.
Second: Because it's a charging method instead of a constant aura, it has room for counterplay. You can engage when the charges are low and disengage when the charges are high to avoid the damage boost. It also partially negates the "invisible power" provided by the aura (hopefully there will be a visual indicator for the passive).
Third: The item's stats make it a good pickup for multiple roles. Mages, supports, and tanks could make good use of the mixed stats it provides.
Fourth: It has a better build path. This goes hand in hand with reason #3.
Fifth: The passive is useful on pretty much every role. Tanks and supports could use it to boost the damage of a team member. Every other role would like the extra crit/ap.
In fact, I'd guess that the new item is a little bit too strong. It gives a ridiculous amount of stats for only 2300 gold, and the passive looks monstrous. I guess it'd all depend on how fast the charges accumulate and what the stats for the item are when it actually goes live though.
Rew7112 votesThough you made great points, I didn't want to get rid of the new item. I never said it was bad or worse except that I'd miss the original passive on the old one. The item, itself, isn't really meant to be multi-useful for every type of champion because there are those few that will not benefit from the new one as well (but pretty much all supports can use it).
Mages that will support usually prefer large AP items. Or at least the ones I play against just get AP. I also believe that all supports can benefit from Zeke's Herald in one way or another. Bard could use the CD reduction, Braum could use the health and CD reduction, Janna, Lulu, and Nami would benefit from CD reduction, Nunu would benefit from the health and CD reduction, Sona would benefit from the CD reduction, Soraka would benefit from both the health CDR, Tahm Kench and Taric definitely benefits from the health and CDR, and even Thresh and Zilean would benefit from the CDR. (The CDR is all I got in this argument to keep it... but tanks like Braum and Tahm Kench then Taric too benefit from its health).
You can also buff Zeke's Herald. If we raise the gold price of Zeke's Herald to 3300 gold and give it the Bilgewater Cutlass item to buff the damage to 30 to those nearby and allow a active to slow an enemy by 25% for 2 seconds dealing 50 (+50% AP) to the enemy (90 second cool down) and makes the passive inactive until active is back up. It's simple trials that they can put on the PBE that could ask for.
I also wish people wouldn't be so harsh to the item. True, its been just sitting in the shop for a long time now, but it can still be used.
Caeler1 votesZeke's Herald is usually taken for its damage boosting passive. The new Zeke's retains a damage boosting passive even if it is somewhat different. The core idea behind the items remains somewhat similar, so it's not as if the item is entirely different.
Mages that will support usually prefer large AP items. Or at least the ones I play against just get AP.
I was actually referring to mid lane mages using the item, but bot lane mages could too I guess. The item gives a 20% AP boost when the passive is up, which is pretty massive. I couldn't see them getting it during lane phase or in every game, but it could be useful in certain situations.
The CDR is all I got in this argument to keep it... but tanks like Braum and Tahm Kench then Taric too benefit from its health
One of the biggest problems with buying Zeke's is that most support items already give 10% CDR. If you buy Zeke's and then buy two other items then you'll probably hit the CDR cap. Buying any other CDR item means that the stats go to waste, which is part of the problem with Zeke's. Zeke's is actually a bad item for tanks because there are other items that give much better tank stats. Most tank items have at least 400 health and come with resists. Locket only costs 350 more gold while giving 150 more HP, 20 more MR (also 20 MR from aura for a total of 40), and an active at the cost of 10% CDR. Zeke's is just pathetic as a tank item in comparison.
You can also buff Zeke's Herald. If we raise the gold price of Zeke's Herald to 3300 gold and give it the Bilgewater Cutlass item to buff the damage to 30 to those nearby and allow a active to slow an enemy by 25% for 2 seconds dealing 50 (+50% AP) to the enemy (90 second cool down) and makes the passive inactive until active is back up. It's simple trials that they can put on the PBE that could ask for.
I don't think that would solve any of the problems the item has though. It still doesn't give enough damage to warrant an AD buying it and the stats would still be pathetic for anyone else. It'd also be even more of a gold sink for anyone who can't use it very well on their own, with a build path that's still terrible for supports and tanks (why would they build a vamp scepter?) There's also the possibility that the item is actually so good that it becomes a mandatory buy because of the aura, similar to how Bulwark was.
Rew7111 votesSide Note: Just wondering who's down voting me. It doesn't feel good.
I actually talked with my friend on this, who gets up to Gold easily and then just stops so he can get the free skin, and he even said he'd recommend the original Zeke's Herald. You keep putting it down since it only gives 20 bonus damage, but you keep forgetting that it is permanent. For ever shot I'd need to activate the new item, I'd shot 20 damage 10 times to "activate" the new item. The total damage would raise to 200 damage able to give rather than just 20% of my AP over the next 6 seconds. It also does not give any bonus damage, it just gives +50% critical damage for the next 6 seconds. My AP and my allies are raised by 20% for 6 seconds.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-e_UFDSUSJ9A/VaQh6E3O6cI/AAAAAAAAti0/95v_UQS9SkQ/s1600/zee.jpg
This goes well with my point on the matter, WHO CARES IF THIS ONE IS BETTER TO MOST?(who for some reason just want ZH to be gone) why can we not keep Zeke's Herald anyway for those who use it? I prefer giving bonus AD over bonus critical chance. This would had been nicer if it (instead) gave +50 AD for 6 seconds, but critical chance...
You also asked why I'd put that item on there? Well, then again, ask why Riot made a item where you first get AD and lifesteal before the item itself. The item in discussion is in fact not pathetic since it gives free lifesteal and bonus AD already. A BF Sword only gives 50 AD, a BloodThirster only gives 80 AD (and they cost 1550 and 3500 respectively while ZH costs 2450).
Caeler1 votesThe total damage would raise to 200 damage able to give rather than just 20% of my AP over the next 6 seconds.
Well let's say one person did 200 damage with the original Zeke's and one person gained 20% AP with the new Zeke's. At 500 AP, that's a bonus 100 AP (might be more with Deathcap). Even if the mage only had a .5 AP ratio on all their skills, that's still equivalent to the 200 damage provided by old Zeke's for auto attacks. Comparatively, however, the time to get that damage is much lower because it's on spells instead of 10 auto attacks. Hence, the item is now much better on mages than before. There's no way they're going to be able to throw out all those auto attacks without someone jumping on them.
I prefer giving bonus AD over bonus critical chance.
Critical chance is actually VERY VERY strong.
For an example, let's assume we have a level 10 Caitlyn with Infinity Edge and Statikk Shiv. At level 10, Cait has 73 attack damage. Let's also assume she has 11 flat AD from runes (1 quint 9 marks). With Zeke's aura, runes, and IE, this brings Cait to 184 AD. Her auto attack multiplier for auto attacks is 2.5 because of IE. Her attack speed is ~1.07. Theoretically:
40 of 100 attacks will be crits 60 of 100 attacks will be normal attacks.
40 x 184 x 2.5 = 18400 physical damage. 60 x 184 = 11040 physical damage. 11040 + 18400 = 29440 physical damage in 100 attacks. With an attack speed of 1.07, this takes ~93 seconds. 29440 physical damage / 93 seconds = ~317 average physical DPS with Zeke's.
With no Zeke's:
40 x 164 x 2.5 = 16400 physical damage. 60 x 164 = 9840 physical damage. 9840 + 16400 = 26240 physical damage in 100 attacks. 26240 physical damage / 93 seconds = ~282 average physical DPS without Zeke's
With new Zeke's (we're calculating the average dps with zeke's passive up):
+50% crit chance so... 90 of 100 attacks will be crits 10 of 100 attacks will be normal attacks
90 x 164 x 2.5 = 36900 physical damage 10 x 164 = 1640 physical damage 36900 + 1640 = 38540 physical damage in 100 attacks. 38540 physical damage / 93 seconds = ~414 average physical DPS with new Zeke's
So let's compare these in a fight.
414 physical DPS (new Zeke's) - 317 physical DPS (current Zeke's) = 97 more physical DPS 97 physical DPS x 6 seconds (new Zeke's passive uptime) = 582 more physical damage before reverting to no Zeke's.
317 physical DPS (current Zeke's) - 282 physical DPS (no Zeke's) = 35 more physical DPS. 582 physical damage / 35 physical DPS = ~17 seconds.
It would take ~17 seconds for current Zeke's to catch up after new Zeke's passive ends.
With how large of a gap in DPS there is, however, it's highly likely new Zeke's passive would come up again before current Zeke's manages to catch up in damage.
Considering how current Zeke's only gave 35 more physical DPS than without Zeke's for a champion with two crit items, it's highly unlikely that the aura would make a huge impact on the DPS of champions without crit chance (i.e. you need a bunch of physical damage dealers, preferably with crit, to even out the damage difference which just forces you into a bad teamcomp).
As the game goes on, the extra AD becomes worse and worse in comparison because endgame ADCs will have around 300 AD. An extra 20 won't make that big of a difference but the 50% crit chance will.
Although it's up 100% of the time and it has an aura, the only real advantage current Zeke's has over new Zeke's is the lifesteal. There's also numerous benefits for new Zeke's that I described earlier.
WHO CARES IF THIS ONE IS BETTER TO MOST?
The new Zeke's is objectively better than the current Zeke's in almost every way.
Rew7112 votesso, you don't care that its not a support item anymore. you just care that you get a OP bonus? . . . .
You fail to realize, this item is too OP and will be nerfed once it hits live. In fact, I'd do my best to stay away from it as a support main. The critical strike is too high. The bonus AP is too high. You don't gain bonus damage, so my "ADC" will only get bonus AP and 50% critical for 6 seconds. Don't you even see this will be nerfed? If as a mage, mid or otherwise, gets 20% bonus what he/she has (say 1000 AP) he/she would get a huge bonus easily (200 AP). It only grows as their AP grows, so imagine if Veiger (who I can get up to 1600 AP easily with) get 20% bonus (320 AP), he will have a crazy amount (1920 AP). We just got buffed AP items. But honestly, I'm done with this. I'm done with your lame arguments and the fact you can't see that Zeke's Herald was OP in its own way.
Caeler1 votesSo I realized as I was writing this reply that I messed up the numbers from my previous calculations because I didn't factor in the attack speed provided by Statikk Shiv. I went ahead and fixed that. The overall result didn't really change.
so, you don't care that its not a support item anymore. you just care that you get a OP bonus? . . . .
No, I probably won't even build this item. Support is my least favorite role and I'm too selfish to build an item that forces me to rely on an ally to do the damage. Same reason why I almost never build Aegis outside of Support. And I totally didn't give any reason to believe that the change was good other than for the stats right? Right? Maybe better build paths and ease of use?
You fail to realize, this item is too OP and will be nerfed once it hits live. In fact, I'd do my best to stay away from it as a support main. The critical strike is too high. The bonus AP is too high.
Last paragraph of my very first comment. Whether it gets nerfed before it hits live doesn't matter as long as it becomes a usable item. In it's current state it's never used.
If as a mage, mid or otherwise, gets 20% bonus what he/she has (say 1000 AP) he/she would get a huge bonus easily (200 AP). It only grows as their AP grows, so imagine if Veiger (who I can get up to 1600 AP easily with) get 20% bonus (320 AP), he will have a crazy amount (1920 AP).
It has an uptime of 6 seconds. That means if you aren't already in the fight, you have to engage AND use all your spells within the remaining timeframe in order to get that extra damage. 1000 AP is pretty unrealistic by the way. Most people get around 800 AP tops. It'll probably get nerfed anyways.
I'm done with your lame arguments and the fact you can't see that Zeke's Herald was OP in its own way.
Zeke's isn't even close to OP. It's so bad that it never sees use. A quick glance at its stats on lolking suggests that it appears in around .16% of games. That's 16 in 10000 games. If it was OP in any way, more people would be using it.
Furthermore your entire response was basically you just claiming that the new Zeke's is OP as if that somehow discredits any of what I said. The only thing it being OP would affect in my arguments is the DPS calculation.
For the sake of argument, let's assume the critical chance is nerfed to 25% and reuse those Caitlyn examples. For these examples I will refer to this theoretical Zeke's as "nerfed Zeke's"
I calculated previously that the average physical DPS with current Zeke's would be 317.
With nerfed Zeke's:
65 x 164 x 2.5 = 26650 physical damage 35 x 164 = 5740 physical damage 26650 + 5740 = 32290 physical damage in 100 attacks. 32290 physical damage / 93 seconds = ~347 average physical DPS with nerfed Zeke's
347 physical DPS - 317 physical DPS = 30 more physical DPS 30 x 6 = 180 physical damage.
I calculated previously that the average physical DPS without Zeke's would be 282.
317 physical DPS - 282 physical DPS = 35 more physical DPS. 180/35 = ~5 seconds for current Zeke's to overtake nerfed Zeke's.
Someone else mentioned that new Zeke's charges about twice as fast as Statikk Shiv. Assuming they aren't wrong, the damage on this nerfed Zeke's would be about equivalent to the damage provided by current Zeke's for one person at least based on how quickly the passive would be back up. The aura would throw the numbers in favor of current Zeke's.
However, new Zeke's would still have an edge in better build path and stats which, along with its very small niche, are the key problems that prevent current Zeke's from being good. Also keep in mind that this is all neglecting any bonuses the support is getting from the item as some people build AP on their supports and would get 20% bonus AP (which would probably get nerfed to 10% or something).
If we factored in lategame the numbers would tilt back towards nerfed Zeke's as I will demonstrate using Caitlyn again.
For an example, let's assume we have a level 17 Caitlyn with Infinity Edge, Berserker's Greaves, Statikk Shiv, Bloodthirster, and Last Whisper. At level 17, Cait has 97 attack damage. Let's also assume she has 11 flat AD from runes (1 quint 9 marks). With Zeke's aura, runes, IE, BT, and LW, this brings Cait to 328 AD. Her auto attack multiplier for auto attacks is 2.5 because of IE. With Berserker's and Statikk, she reaches an attack speed of ~1.42.
40 x 328 x 2.5 = 32800 physical damage. 60 x 328 = 19680 physical damage. 32800 + 19680 = 52480 physical damage in 100 attacks. With an attack speed of 1.42, this takes ~70 seconds. 52480 physical damage / 70 seconds = ~750 average physical DPS with Zeke's.
With no Zeke's:
40 x 308 x 2.5 = 30800 physical damage. 60 x 308 = 18480 physical damage. 30800 + 18480 = 49280 physical damage in 100 attacks. 49280 physical damage / 70 seconds = ~704 average physical DPS without Zeke's
With nerfed Zeke's:
65 x 308 x 2.5 = 50050 physical damage 35 x 308 = 10780 physical damage 50050 + 10780 = 60830 physical damage in 100 attacks. 60830 physical damage / 70 seconds = 869 average physical DPS with nerfed Zeke's
869 physical DPS - 750 physical DPS = 119 more physical DPS 119 physical DPS x 6 seconds = 714 more physical damage
750 physical DPS - 704 = 46 more physical DPS 714 physical damage / 46 physical DPS = ~16 seconds for current Zeke's to catch up after nerfed Zeke's passive ends.
As I stated before, the passive would just come up again and current Zeke's wouldn't be able to catch up.
We could probably nerf this again to 20 or even 15%, but the results would probably be the same except current Zeke's would be better early game.
SociopathFriend6 votesThe new item is nice, but majority of supports would rather Zeke's Herald. So, why not have both?
pfft, nobody builds Zeke's herald; I know this because I'm one of the people that actually tries building it every now and then. It's only good if you've got a bunch of AD damage dealers- and then you have to wonder how well you're going to do anyways once they buy armor.
The AD is wasted for a Support as you'll either be tanky (Alistar, Taric, Blitz, Leona), or utility (Raka, Lulu, Nami); neither of these benefit from buying Zeke's as you would almost anything else.
I can understand the "Why not just have both" mentality- but don't try to justify it by saying people use Zeke's Herald. They do not.
sp4415 votesmajority of supports would rather Zeke's Herald.
Uhn? Objection? I've never seem anybody ever build a Zeke's Herald. Ever.
Sukishoo4 votesmajority of supports would rather Zeke's Herald.
Since when? LOLOLOL
Vistha Kai2 votesWelcome to the League of Retcons, where everything gets a retcon. Even item diversity.
Emperor Time2 voteswhat? zeke's herald is a trash tier item????
IwfiKe3qjM2 votesI think the only reason they keep the name "Zeke" is because that item is from referral or something like that... if not they will removed it altogether like "Deathfire Grasp"
JustMyBassCannon2 votesThe current design for Zeke's Herald is not worth keeping. It really isn't.
All the (archetype) supports don't use AD efficiently, and by extension, don't use Lifesteal efficiently either. They can use the health and CDR, but pretty much every good support item has CDR, and the health on it is basically what they get out of Sightstone.
The only (role) supports that use Zeke's well are actually bruisers.
On top of that, Zeke's is a remnant from an older time, when stacking auras for a bunch of team fight power was normal. It was common to see people double-stack auras, because the item itself has great stats, and then you'd get double the effect of the aura due to how they stack.
Now, the only remaining real aura items are Aegis/Locket, which has been watered down to the point where I'm surprised it's still an aura, and Zeke's Herald, which has a very low-effect niche. The new Zeke's is not actually worth complaint when you consider that it works on a much larger pool of champions.
Kobold2 votesI just want to point out how gold efficient the item is:
y = gold efficiency x = bonus AP
THESE ARE WIKIA VALUES Gold value per AP = 21.75g Value per Armor = 20g Value per Mana = 2g Value per CDR = 31.67g Value per Crit Chance = 50g
Item stats and Value AP 50 = 1087.5g Armor 35 = 700g Mana 250 = 500g CDR 10% = 316.7g Before passive =2604.2g or 113.2% Gold Efficient
Passive: Crit 100% = 5000g AP 20% each = varies
After Crit added = 7605.2g or 330.6% Gold Efficient
Equations (note: I haven't done any mathematics in 3 years so correct me if I am wrong)
Gold Efficiency[Y] = 100( ( 2604.2[No Crit value] + 21.75*X[bonus AP] ) / 2300[Item cost] )
OR
Y=100((2604.2+21.75*X)/2300)
With Crit
Gold Efficiency[Y] = 100( ( 7604.2[With Crit value] + 21.75*X[bonus AP] ) / 2300[Item cost] )
OR
Y=100((7604.2+21.75*X)/2300)
So with 2 APCs being affected by its passive both at 300AP (before bonus ap) the item would give them each 60 AP, 120 total.
So ignoring the crit we get 226.7% Efficient, Add in the crit and its 444.1% Efficient.
Here is the new zeke's gold efficiency. Also note that the item is able to be proc'd in around double the time it takes to fill shiv's passive, so its passive is up quite often.
For reference Full stacked 
is 313.6% gold efficient, and a full 
is 325.7% gold efficient.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesSupports don't deserve AD... apparently...
Rew7111 votesThey should make one that is based off AD.
AMYS GRAVE3 votesYeah Zeke's harbringer is a totally different item, i don't see why you cant keep both when they are this radically different.
Steelflame1 votesWell, that could actually cause an issue of the two of them are stacked up on the same support for the sake of carry-amping.
In the 0.0000000000001% of games it would happen in.
jersatt3 votesSupport 
RIP 2009-2015
Remlap12231 votesI was going to complain, but then I realized it actually made GP support even better, so I just ate oranges and was K.
Cindikle1 votesIt's a poor item overall with too strong of a niche.
They probably were on the verge of just putting it with Atma's.
But I'd like to see it stay on ARAM.
OverpoweredSoap1 votesThe only time I built Zeke's Herald was when I played support Kalista.
But maybe it's because I don't really play any supports that would really benefit it that much.
Just because it's not used though, doesn't mean they should remove it.
Silents4291 votesOhh. Just shut up about it, they are turning an item that never gets picked into something that will get picked, and all that is complained about is whether both can exist, why would we keep trash items around.
shepshifter1 votesI only ever build zeke's if I'm playing as Yorick, the damage boost affects the gouls
CharQueen1 votesZeke's Herald was total crap; what 'majority of supports' are buying that useless piece of $ ?
