If Malzahar gets to have the best CC in the game, why does he also get the best damage?

Cloud273·Jul 21, 2016·3 votes·809 views

He has suppress and silence. The best CC in the game. We all know why suppress is good, and when you're silenced, there's absolutely NOTHING you can do. But on top of this, he gets to have amazing damage in his entire kit. Malzahar needs to be gutted hard. He has too much of everything. On top of this, he also gets %health damage, which makes it impossible for bruisers/tanks (you know, the champs who are supposed to dive the backline and kill squishy champs) to catch him. And assuming they actually reach the backline, he also has a free spell shield, which makes him even more impossible to kill.

31 Comments

JunkοJul 21, 20168 votes

Malzahar neither has the best CC and neither does he actually have any damage once you get a tiny amount of MR.

Cloud273Jul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Malzahar neither has the best CC and neither does he actually have any damage once you get a tiny amount of MR.

Too bad his voidlings deal physical damage, so you can't really itemize effectively against him. And silence IS the best CC. You can't fight back at all. It's completely retarded.

Void NargacugaJul 21, 20162 votes

His Voidlings deal mixed damage... Build something like Hourglass and Abyssal to help against their damage if you're an AP mid. You could also build GA.

Cloud273Jul 21, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZcvIsWH,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-21T22:31:28.631+0000)

His Voidlings deal mixed damage... Build something like Hourglass and Abyssal to help against their damage if you're an AP mid. You could also build GA.

Well fuk me for wanting to build damage and actually have burst as a mid laner. Guess I'll just build armor/mr and be useless all game.

Void NargacugaJul 21, 20166 votes

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Captain-Picard-Facepalm.jpg

When did Hourglass & Abyssal stop giving you AP?!

If you're AD build a fucking Maw and GA.

SlythionJul 21, 20162 votes

He's famous for being a lane bully. You don't go full damage against champions known to bully/burst without items like Renekton, Annie, Leblanc, and Malzahar.

You start Abysall/Zhonyas against champions like Zed, Annie, and Leblanc for a reason ya dolt. Not every matchup is a fck fest of damage, sometimes you need to prioritize items and build against your laner. Ya'know...be smart

(btw, Zhonyas/Abysall both give flat AP too so I'm not sure why you thought you'd do no damage. Most damage early like that comes from flat damage and not the ratios anyways, seeing as how you don't have enough items for ratios to really matter)

Have a Nice GameJul 22, 20161 votes

If you want to compensate... just get another champion with high base and ratios

When Malzahar used to have his Q and E at 320 or 300 + 80% ap, he didn't ever need to have rabadon's deathcap

I would literally go item 3027 item 3116 item 3135 item 3151 item 3165 item 3020 Back then (Not in any specific order) His high base and ratios allowed him to burst and the biggest gripe my enemy laners had about me was that I had too much hp so they couldn't kill me quickly

VolcanuzJul 21, 20163 votes

If you burst him down he can't even spawn those voidlings.

I think your issue is you aren't playing the right people against him. His not actually as strong as you think he is, far from it.

Also his CC isn't the best, it is great 1v1 but in a team fight his simple to shut down and it makes him immobile meaning you can drop a world of hurt on him and he can't react back. So if he hits the wrong target you have all the time in the world to punish him for it.

If he did have the best CC he would have CC on all his abilities. I think Sej and Amumu still have the BEST CC in the game with their multiple stuns and slows. Maybe you should just learn how to beat Malz. I find the best way in learning that is to play him.

Cloud273Jul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you burst him down he can't even spawn those voidlings.

I think your issue is you aren't playing the right people against him. His not actually as strong as you think he is, far from it.

Also his CC isn't the best, it is great 1v1 but in a team fight his simple to shut down and it makes him immobile meaning you can drop a world of hurt on him and he can't react back. So if he hits the wrong target you have all the time in the world to punish him for it.

If he did have the best CC he would have CC on all his abilities. I think Sej and Amumu still have the BEST CC in the game with their multiple stuns and slows. Maybe you should just learn how to beat Malz. I find the best way in learning that is to play him.

Except you can't burst him, cuz spell shield. And if you get close to him he'll just suppress you. There's no winning against Malzahar.

VolcanuzJul 22, 20162 votes

I guess poking doesn't exist anymore sorry i thought poking existed in game. Did they remove it in a patch?

JunkοJul 22, 20161 votes

You can literally AA him once and the spellshield is gone for the next minute of the laning phase if you continue poking him. It's just like Yasuo except Malz also needs to stay out of combat.

VolcanuzJul 22, 20161 votes

Haha yeah this is exactly right. Man some people don't even TRY work stuff out before crying about it.

Have a Nice GameJul 22, 20161 votes

You can auto attack him first of all

And have you ever played Malzahar versus a Leblanc, Azir or Ziggs

Because they either have the range or can pop in, hit you, and leave quite easily

JunkοJul 22, 20161 votes

His voidlings can also be killed really easily. If you kill one before it multiplies then his W is gone for 20+ seconds.

Have a Nice GameJul 22, 20161 votes

Inb4 smite mid...

plus his voidlings can be wiped out with a strong aoe, so pick a champion like viktor or xerath.

herp da derp

archerno1Jul 21, 20165 votes

Suppress is not best cc, it imobilizes caster making it easy target. Thats why he gets damage and silence. To provide him some safety when ultying. In most cases against competent opponents, he wont be able to utilize ulti, not to mention that 1300g item makes it useless Without damage and silence all that opponent would need is 1300 g to make game 5v4

Cloud273Jul 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Suppress is not best cc, it imobilizes caster making it easy target. Thats why he gets damage and silence. To provide him some safety when ultying. In most cases against competent opponents, he wont be able to utilize ulti, not to mention that 1300g item makes it useless Without damage and silence all that opponent would need is 1300 g to make game 5v4

He gets a free spell shield. He doesn't need more safety.

SlythionJul 21, 20164 votes

Amumu "who's this malzahar and why is he stealing my title?"

Cassiopeia "dude idk but I thought I was the runner up"

Chogath "did someone mention cc and damage?"

Yorick "I wish I could be a part of some of these conversations ;n;"

and yes, you're post is something I disagree with

VolcanuzJul 21, 20164 votes

You're missing Sej Sejuani , Ori Orianna , Tahm TahmKench , Rammus Rammus and of course the king of damage and CC Naut Nautilus .

Naut alone makes most the CC champions look sparse of CC. Passive, Q, E, R are all CC... freaking insane. Plus his damage is bonkers if you build for it.

SlythionJul 21, 20161 votes

I did miss Naut, although Ori only really has 1 cc ability she's known for and the rest don't dish out tons of dmg. I was basically trying to find the dmg/cc in which case you're right...how did I miss Naut?

Sightless66Jul 21, 20164 votes

when you're silenced, there's absolutely NOTHING you can do

Except walk away and autoattack. Those are two very good things you can do. That's why silences are, by definition, inferior to stuns. The thing that lets his silence compete with blatantly superior stuns is the high uptime he gets to have from the relatively low cooldown. If it had to have the cooldown that most stuns have, it would be one of the worst abilities in the game. The suppression is good, but it's single-target and can be canceled. Both of those mean that AoE CC can definitely be more valuable than it. His CC is quite good, but it's not amazing.

But on top of this, he gets to have amazing damage in his entire kit.

I don't really agree with this. His damage is average at best. Even though he's overpowered, he's only 22nd in midlaner damage. Most mages outstrip him in damage. What makes him strong isn't just having huge damage, it's the reliability of his damage and his resistance to getting picked off or bursted. Safety is extremely valuable, and he's one of the best in the game at it.

warpenguin555Jul 21, 20163 votes

he has neither.

SpookÿJul 21, 20162 votes

At first I upvoted for your idea because he is indeed busted, but then I read that you think tanks are supposed to dive backline and kill squishies which is 100% BULLSHIT. Tanks should be tanks. Hard to kill and do little damage. But they aren't, they 1 shot backline, and because you believe that this is ACTUALLY fair.... Downvoted. Good luck to you sir :D

Cloud273Jul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

At first I upvoted for your idea because he is indeed busted, but then I read that you think tanks are supposed to dive backline and kill squishies which is 100% BULLSHIT. Tanks should be tanks. Hard to kill and do little damage. But they aren't, they 1 shot backline, and because you believe that this is ACTUALLY fair.... Downvoted. Good luck to you sir :D

Well I mean, what else are they supposed to do? Just sit there and die? Your logic makes no sense. And I said tanks AND bruisers.