Vi, Hecarim, Shyvana and Lee are dominating the jungle, but AP Shaco will be getting nerfed first

Big Lincoln··149 votes·7,338 views

Shaco Deceive (Q) AP ratio lowered to 40% from 50% Two-Shiv Poison (E) AP ratio lowered to 75% fro 90% Hallucinate (R) explosion damage lowered to 200/300/400 from 300/450/60

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/12/129-pbe-update.html

Lee Sin Dragon's Rage (R) damage lowered to 150/300/450

Shyvana Burnout (W) no longer does +20% extra damage against monsters.

No changes for Vi and Hecarim

Explain yourselves, Riot

215 Comments

Astôlfo64 votes

what the fuck

what the actual fuck

So you kill Shaco, make a cancerous monstrosity of AP Shaco, make that the ONLY possible way to play him, then kill that too? Fuck you, Riot.

Big Lincoln25 votes

but don't worry, they fixed AD shaco

sometimes he actually gets the damage he paid for with item 3031 item 3087. So now instead of doing less damage with backstab, he has a 50% chance to do the same damage he would do attacking from the front

fixed :)

dominusx2 votes

FIXED. LETS GO HOME BOYS ahahahhhaha

Baron Perenolde1 votes

Did they fix his Thunderlord's bug too?

Big Lincoln6 votes

yes, and more

AP Shaco actually benefits even more because for some inane reason, his backstab procs Runic Echoes, meaning with his Q, Runic/Luden's and a Revolver, he can instantly proc Thunderlord's. Even more reason to build him AP over AD in my opinion

Terchio8 votes

I'm confused.

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PUGA0McX,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-12-09T22:47:05.558+0000)

isn't supposed to be AP? he has AP ratios on every single ability; they even added one onto his Q. what did they expect him to build when they neuter his AD build across the board?

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA)

yes, and more


AP Shaco actually benefits even more [from Thunderlord's] because for some inane reason, his backstab procs Runic Echoes, meaning with his Q, Runic/Luden's and a Revolver, he can instantly proc Thunderlord's. Even more reason to build him AP over AD in my opinion

Sounds to me that you agree that AP Shaco might have been a bit strong. Sure, the others might be historically oppressive, but it's odd to have a comparison being made on one nerfed more than another when even you appear to believe both needed some tuning.

Wind Whistler4 votes

{quoted}

what the fuck

what the actual fuck

So you kill Shaco, make a cancerous monstrosity of AP Shaco, make that the ONLY possible way to play him, then kill that too? Fuck you, Riot.

This is disgusting. Probably even worse than what they did to AP Kog'Maw. I greatly pity anybody who plays Shaco. Riot just keeps making so many balance issues, I don't want to play this game anymore. In fact, I've stopped playing it. I really do hope they start making good, reasonable decisions again.

Sona x Rubick32 votes

OH LOL

i broke my head the entire day to think a proper nerf for lee sin instead of this piece of shit ulti nerf, and we get a shaco nerf that literally olaf him XDDDDDDDD

balance team finest work

Shinjusuke4 votes

Since when is it hard to think of proper lee sin nerfs? O.o

I mean jeez. He's been overloaded forever, it's not hard to trim some of that.

How about removing the shield he provides with W? Or removing that BS bonus health damage with his ult they added just to make sure he'd get played at Worlds? Or giving his ult a real cooldown? (Or any part of his kit, for that matter) Or giving his ult reasonable damage, instead of a crazy high base AND high scaling?

I mean hell, any one of those would be nice.

TwinkiePro1 votes

All of those can apply to Lux as well :3

Count Zubat9 votes

Lux is immobile mage, when you catch her, she's pretty much dead. Also, her ult is an actual skill shot with significant delay. Yes, she can be frustating, but she isn't even a problem right now.

Ulquiorra99531 votes

Rito has obviously caught up to a huge mistake they made when they reworked Shaco: they left a build path for him that is actually viable. So they are rushing to fix that glaring oversight.

dominusx17 votes

no Heca nerf? and you nerf poor garbage tier shaco? lol..

Anags2 votes

Garbage tier means you have a top 10 winrate in two positions now. Interesting.

Aviatinq5 votes

Urgot has a top 10 winrate position your point is irrelevant.

Moon Mom1 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/urgot Your argument is invalid. He is not while Shaco is. http://champion.gg/champion/shaco

Aviatinq2 votes

You know different websites have different winrates for different champions right? And even the one you linked still makes his comment wrong.

Darth Sidiouss12 votes

AP Shaco isnt even that strong wtf ur autos are fuckin useless i dont understand why they would nerf that and not Hecarim

Oakleaf Ranger3 votes

AP Shaco is disgusting mid to late game and even sooner if he gets fed. I really wish they don't nerf him or at least compensate him.

Eedat9 votes

Because Vi Hecarim abused CotC which got nerfed. So they got nerfed.

HazyCloud78 votes

Vi was fine before they added that joke of a keystone known as courage of the colossus and unnecessarily changed the jungle to boot.

Lee is losing 150 base damage on his ult at max rank & Shyvana's clear is going to be a lot worse than it is on live. How are those "small" nerfs? Those are significant nerfs, they just look minor in comparison to the gutting of AP Shaco from today's pbe update.

five oh tree 7 votes

I don't understand... They intentionally made it so that ap shaco is good lategame by removing easy counters to his stealth. I thought how he was right now is what they wanted lol. He is shit until mid game ish. then he's decent. Lategame he's good at wiping squishies out without warning, BECAUSE OF THE CHANGES THEY MADE TO HIM. Now his lategame won't even be good.

it'll go like this: early game: bad mid game: decent late game: good meh

Why would anyone pick him over any other champ in any circumstance?

VivaLaKitten6 votes

what. . . theyre nerfing the only fun way to play Shaco? oh gee, thanks Riot Riot: hey, np buddy were just gonna force you to play these champions the way we want you to

also, /All Chat is garbage

incoming hatred for having a say in anything that isn't completely harmlessly bland like a stupid meme

bad arcade kitty5 votes

also riot is known for enforcing meta by ruining alternative champion builds, nothing surprising that they nerf ap shaco

ACENOX5 votes

they made ap shaco the only viable way to play shaco

where have you been?

420 Stylish5 votes

Nerfing the AP ratio on his E? I can't even... It basically already doesn't have a base damage, now nerfing the ratio even further? Wut?

rtbf761092713 votes

he wont even be able to farm jg with these changes like honestly. Already his clear is pretty bad and you have to skip raptors.

Anags2 votes

A lot of champs have to skip raptors especially early.

VexingRaven3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Give Zed head,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PUGA0McX,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2016-12-10T00:12:03.700+0000)

Nerfing the AP ratio on his E? I can't even... It basically already doesn't have a base damage, now nerfing the ratio even further? Wut?

Riot: Hurr durr % missing hp damage is so good, it makes up for it!

Realty: Yeah that 150 damage on a 10% health ADC at level 18 is SOOOO strong.

Kr1sys5 votes

Riot balance team like pre-rework:

hey let's gut this Champs ability to be useful early, make him good and mid to late.

Riot after: well shit he's useful mid to late, let's gut that too.

Meanwhile hecarim and Lee sin runs from mid to bot lane with full vision to the enemy team, turret dives them and gets double kill at any point in the game.

I'm pretty sure their balance team doesn't actually play this game, or they're stuck in bronze.

Small Tiddies4 votes

Riot decides to shove AP shaco down everyone's throat when it was a fun off build for people (like myself) to mess around with.

(I have around 95% of my games as AP Shaco rather than AD, I'm level 5 and I love'd to play AP Shaco because it was really fun to mess with people, when your boxes deal like 150 dmg per hit and you could stack them up.)

Riot: Now that we've ruined an off meta build for a character and made it the only viable build, lets nerf it to the ground and make the champion completely useless for a few seasons.

Season 10

Riot: We've reworked shaco into a anti engage marksman that can blink around the map and kill people as long as you set up your damage first. We think he'll be an excellent counter Urgot, another champion we've very recently reworked but find a bit too strong. His passive no longer crits but now grants him a spellshield that blocks global ultimates only. His new Q allows him to blink to target location, within a short distance, but no longer lets him become invisible because that gives him too much ganking power. His W is the same except it no longer fears because we feel like that's unfair for players to play against. His E is now a skillshot but deals much more damage. His E also no longer deals damage to jungle monsters, because we felt like his clear is too healthy and he takes no damage in the jungle. He no longer has a combat ultimate but leveling his R causes him to give all targets in the area immunity to death and teleport them in a direction. We took heavy inspiration form other champion's kits but also decided to give him his own identity.

Players: Mother of god....

CrazFight 4 votes

WAIT , what the actual fuck...

Bardful4 votes

I feel shaco is getting nerfed ap because they didn't mean to make it the meta option, just better and they said he needs a full vgu. I don't know why when he hasn't been hard to balance and if being annoying is a qualification blitzcrank should be top of the list. Still, if he needs that much they probably don't want him to be top tier or even mid tier. I am really sad they are nerfing his e, it still feels very weak and I get it effects the early game less as much but, a small compensation like %missing health damage would help.

also, Kind of random but I want them to make ad shaco do something special with backstab + regular crit. Maybe does 190% damage on backstab and percent penetration. Would be cool. Or crit with ap scaling on backstab, a lot of creative ideas could come out of it. I just feel bad the passive is non existent if you build full crit.

bad arcade kitty3 votes

stfu, shyvana is getting nerfs meantime vi and hec have a free ride

Big Lincoln15 votes

didn't even read the post xd

i listed her nerf. it's nothing at all compared to how hard shaco is getting hit and that's my problem.

bad arcade kitty1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PUGA0McX,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-12-09T22:47:05.558+0000)

didn't even read the post xd

i listed her nerf. it's nothing at all compared to how hard shaco is getting hit and that's my problem.

shaco isn't even supposed to be ap while for shyvana that nerf is a complete gutting

Big Lincoln31 votes

isn't supposed to be AP? he has AP ratios on every single ability; they even added one onto his Q. what did they expect him to build when they neuter his AD build across the board?

his passive works better for AP because AD Shaco isn't even guaranteed to do the full damage he buys from IE and shiv; AP shaco always benefits.

ACENOX12 votes

they even added an ap ratio on the duration of the box

Supreme Senpai691 votes

Yes he is. They fixed that. AD Shaco will now be the better build

Big Lincoln7 votes

no they didn't.

AD Shaco's passive is still horrible. No bonus damage but instead with the average build item 3031 item 3087 you have a 50/50 chance of doing regular damage or doing reduced damage. That's dog shit.

Meanwhile, AP Shaco's backstab actually gives him bonus damage.

If they want AD Shaco to be playable then his passive needs to be % bonus damage instead of replacing with a % crit.

MonkeyMadness2 votes

Shaco is a cancer champ that most people don't even want on their team anyways. Stop complaining about Riot removing toxic gameplay. Also, let't not forget the MASSIVE buff that Shaco got with the changes to stealth. There is literally 0 counterplay to his ganks now, so nerfing his damage is the only way to stop him from getting a free snowball.

Big Lincoln17 votes

because Vi pressing R and wiping you off the map is so much fun right?

Hecarim building nothing but Triforce and assassinating with impunity is healthy?

Lee Sin jumping behind you every time his ult is up to kick you across the lane and guarantee you die isn't toxic?

fuck off

DunkinNoobs3 votes

I mean, when Shaco has a 56% winrate, maybe he should be looked at first. Maybe I'm crazy. http://lolalytics.com/champion/Shaco/Jungle/

Big Lincoln4 votes

Shyvana, Vi, and Hecarim are hovering around 53-54%, with the best players averaging around 57% (Shaco and Shyvana are both at 58%)

They have comparable winrates which is a problem for sure, but all of these champs have around double his pick rate. The only one that actually seems in line right now is Hecarim.

Revali3 votes

only problem with vi is the keystone imo, she's been fine for a long long time.

Elisheva2 votes

Lets see...

  1. Can dodge.
  2. Can dodge ult.
  3. Just needs to be fucking removed.
  4. Easy to dodge all of the burst, out trade, and all around not die to.

Ap shaco on the other hand... Literally 1 shot from stealth, and if you manage to survive, a slow to fuck you.

Small Tiddies1 votes

As long as you have 130~ mr he shouldn't be one shotting anyone, not to mention you could get a bv or eon

OHminus3 votes

130 mr is a pretty high number.

Most squishies won't even get near the mark of 100 mr, much less 130.

DatShunporina2 votes

Riot don't understand 50% of damage of shaco come from items, Hextech / sheen / thunderlords are broken, not shaco

EROTIC RAID BOSS4 votes

uhh. the items are ok on other champions. lol

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