Sightstone and Why its not Mandatory

MrEnder··2 votes·1,303 views

(This post refers to solo/dynamic que and not high end organized team play where the game completely changes)

Sightstone is a fantastic Item and definitely has its spot in the game. BUT along with all items in the game it is a SITUATIONAL item.

Consider this list of ward spots:

Core Wards: 2 main ward spots in the river 1 Ward Baron (replaceable with skitter) 1 Ward Dragon (replaceable with skitter) 2 Wards for mid lane jungle entry 1 for each side. (usually only need 1 out at a time depending on side of map) 1 Enemy Blue buff intersection ward (only when pushing)

Secondary Wards 1 Split push top tri bush ward 1 Split push bottom golems bush ward 1 dragon tri bush ward 1 baron tri bush ward 1 dragon/red buff bush 1 baron/red buff bush

So now lets do some math. Out of the core wards you only need 6 of them ever at a time assuming all skitters are unavailable. A normal team comp will have 1 player with teleport so they will keep the normal warding totem. 1 person with a sweeper (jungle or support) and 2 with farsight alteration and the last person with a farsight or regular totem. So this equals 4 wards at least. Jungle and Support purchase a pink ward each. We are now up to 6 wards covering all core wards. Top split pushes and purchases a pink ward to cover his core ward. We now have 6 core wards taken care of with 1 extra ward for him to cover vision while split pushing. Normal Totems hold an extra ward over time which fills in the blanks when taking baron or dragon. So we are now up to 9 wards 3 of which are pink wards and we have covered all but 3 situational wards at any given time. Fight Sight alteration wards stick around forever so they can easily make up for those 3 wards.

So in an AVERAGE game there is 0 need for a sight stone as to light up 90% of the map you only need 12 wards. Also remember minions, towers and other players also give vision. With map awareness you can simply see someone walk in a direction and know where they will end up you don't need to see their ever step to know where they are.

No sight stone means more money to get other items which help more during a team fight.

But what about those games where the enemy has a Teemo and shrooms are everywhere so everyone is buying a sweeper? Then you get a sight stone. Both jungle and support get a sight stone.

Some of you might argue there are more warding spots and you are correct there are a few more warding spots but most of these were left out due to another ward would give better map awareness making that ward very low priority and not often used.

So TL DR stop thinking sight stone is mandatory because its not. So learn how to simply ward better and have better map awareness.

54 Comments

Mysticman8910 votes

People should be moving their vision lines along with them instead of trying to have fixed ward locations at all times. A lot of vision where you need it is better than a broad patchy amount of vision. Waiting a minuteish per ward isn't going to cut it.

Having wards on hand is very useful when chasing people, as losing vision as someone ducks into brush can lead to missing out on a few crucial autos.

Assuming your opponents aren't bronze/silverish, your wards are going to be swept/cleared via pinks. Being able to replace them relatively promptly is going to make your life a lot safer.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

People should be moving their vision lines along with them instead of trying to have fixed ward locations at all times. A lot of vision where you need it is better than a broad patchy amount of vision. Waiting a minuteish per ward isn't going to cut it.

Having wards on hand is very useful when chasing people, as losing vision as someone ducks into brush can lead to missing out on a few crucial autos.

Assuming your opponents aren't bronze/silverish, your wards are going to be swept/cleared via pinks. Being able to replace them relatively promptly is going to make your life a lot safer.

You sir are challenger :) In challenger diamond maybe high platnum sure I can understand that. However the AVERAGE person freaking out about a sight stone is in gold or lower where the sweeper is hardly used... Also yes wards are useful in chasing but unless you are a tank support that is aggressive like leona why are you chasing into a bush anyways? So a sight stone would almost never help in this situation. Also of course you move your wards as you go that is a given. BUT there are STILL only so many places to ward and those places cover a very large area of vision each. I'd be happy to display this for you if you wish.

Mysticman893 votes

About half the wards you're proposing are destructible with no special requirements (as in sweeper/raptor buff). Ok great, you spotted the enemy jg coming to gank, and so safely backed off but they also spotted the ward and destroyed it. Now suppose the enemy is freezing the lane near their turret, are you going to push up and try to break the freeze without vision? What if the jg was just waiting now that they know they cleared the vision? (Or if you're proposing that we're talking low elo where lane mechanics aren't a thing [so no freezing], what do you do when you(/your adc) inevitably push the lane yourselves?)

Wards have a pretty big placement range, I'm not necessarily suggesting that you as a support chase into the bush which is dangerous for a host of reasons. As a support you are supporting someone (usually adc or perhaps jg/mid during a roam) though, and giving them vision of the brush can be important for non-skill shot abilties and AA's so they can keep up the murder without needing to actually enter the bush. Plenty of occasions where theres slippery champs running into a bush who just need another second or so for their abilities to come off cooldown, where immediately warding the brush means they die instead of being spared long enough for their abilties to come off CD and either turn the fight or escape.

I'm just a mid plat support main myself, and I primarily play Janna (who is basically the opposite of an aggressive tank support), and I feel like that makes vision (and hence a sightstone) that much more important. The tanky sorts who can recklessly facecheck brushes for vision are the ones who can sometimes survive the startling discovery that not only did the low hp enemy sup who just ran into the brush was there, but also the full health enemy jg who doubled back after a failed gank half a minute earlier.

Besides that, I don't think basic sweeper usage is that advanced to be beyond golds, or even upper silver, and especially when you're consistently warding the same spots all game. Challenger sorts will do it better (sweeping in locations more likely to check two places at once for example) and more reliably (observing enemy motions to tell when they have something warded, and knowing to sweep as a result), but occasionally sweeping the most common locations (particularly with ward debris making it particularly obvious in your case) is not a tall demand, that would leave you stuck under turret for minutes at a time, or else food for enemy jg/mid.

Glaedr5 votes

I think you have it the other way around, brother. I know you're probably just shitposting for fun, but if you're playing at such low ranks where enemies don't bother sweeping then your sighstone gets even more value, not less. You're getting clear uncontested vision in which your team can make more calculated plays off of. Being able to have constant information on enemy locations and being able to make smart decisions is incredibly important and you're simply not going to get that by doing the bare minimum warding and depending on freakin scuttlecrab to seriously cover the rivers.

Dankstin5 votes

Sighstone is only needed when you're the support and you're also playing League of Legends. Otherwise I don't see the point in it. Well, maybe if you're Lee Sin and need to Insec all day. You're a stubborn idiot.

FiddlesOnTheRoof5 votes

You sir, are every team's nightmare. I just end up building SS as an adc when I get stuck with people like you. And then we lose because our adc is behind on items.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

You sir, are every team's nightmare. I just end up building SS as an adc when I get stuck with people like you. And then we lose because our adc is behind on items.

So you admit YOU do something that causes you to lose >.> and you think that is a good idea? and I'm the nightmare...

FiddlesOnTheRoof2 votes

We have a significantly better chance with vision than without. Supports not buying SS is worse than troll bot lanes, worse than teemo top, worse than an incompetent jungler.

UsiTsukino3 votes

.______________________________.

Ok.... Stay in jungle and let supports do the rest. :)

item 2045

WoonStruck3 votes

"Because I want to stay in bronze"

Oh wait, that's not what the OP says... Foolishness.


You say you only need 12 wards on the map? Yeah, good luck having 12 up at all time without sightstone, especially with the enemy team clearing those wards.

Seriously, good luck keeping that ward line strong. Chances are you won't even have one.


If your jungler didn't opt for Tracker's, you need to build sightstone. There is not another good alternative choice. All others are inferior. Hell, even if your jungler opted for Trackers, you should STILL buy sightstone.

This isn't an arena fighter. Its a strategy game. That information (and HP) is more valuable than whatever alternative item you would have bought as support. You are giving the enemy team a HUGE advantage by not buying it.

Enjoy feeding the enemy jungler, mid, and top and your top-laner being unable to get good TP wards, though.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

"Because I want to stay in bronze"

Oh wait, that's not what the OP says... Foolishness.


If your jungler didn't opt for Tracker's, you need to build sightstone. There is not another good alternative choice. All others are inferior. Hell, even if your jungler opted for Trackers, you should STILL buy sightstone.

This isn't an arena fighter. Its a strategy game. That information (and HP) is more valuable than whatever alternative item you would have bought as support.

Enjoy feeding the enemy jungler, though.

Assuming what you say is true. Explain to me how myself at highest rank a gold 1 player is able to look at the minimap with almost no wards on it and I can tell you exactly where the enemy is at all times. Following the jungler through their jungle without even having vision on them is simple math and knowing their starting point... Following any player on the map once you have seen them once is incredibly easy. So this being said with low vision compared to what I'm offering covers every crossing point to show enemy incoming at all times to make it even easier to see where they are... What excuse do you have? Everyone here is posting "you will feed" "you need vision" but... this gives FULL vision... and I NEVER get "caught" unexpectedly. How is that possible according to what you are saying? I die in team fights and engages, tower dives, dragon/baron dives and duels but I never die because someone snuck up on me because quite simply if you just have some common sense its IMPOSSIBLE. So I just don't get it if I can do this... why can't anyone else?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votes

{quoted}

Assuming what you say is true. Explain to me how myself at highest rank a gold 1 player is able to look at the minimap with almost no wards on it and I can tell you exactly where the enemy is at all times. Following the jungler through their jungle without even having vision on them is simple math and knowing their starting point... Following any player on the map once you have seen them once is incredibly easy. So this being said with low vision compared to what I'm offering covers every crossing point to show enemy incoming at all times to make it even easier to see where they are... What excuse do you have? Everyone here is posting "you will feed" "you need vision" but... this gives FULL vision... and I NEVER get "caught" unexpectedly. How is that possible according to what you are saying? I die in team fights and engages, tower dives, dragon/baron dives and duels but I never die because someone snuck up on me because quite simply if you just have some common sense its IMPOSSIBLE. So I just don't get it if I can do this... why can't anyone else?

well you say that but you have no stats to back it up. if wards were optional as you are putting it then why in the hell do they buy them and use them in pro play because would you say that pro players are are better then a gold 1 player? and if you as a gold 1 player is able to do then they are right?

but all that wasted gold and resources by all the pinks and wards they place over and over

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W155HoaMJo

MrEnder1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PU1zgbig,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-08-29T05:39:30.045+0000)

well you say that but you have no stats to back it up. if wards were optional as you are putting it then why in the hell do they buy them and use them in pro play because would you say that pro players are are better then a gold 1 player? and if you as a gold 1 player is able to do then they are right?

but all that wasted gold and resources by all the pinks and wards they place over and over

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W155HoaMJo

"pro players" are in competitive team play where they can coordinate ward removal much better. Which is why at the top of the post I mention that isn't the same thing and not being referred to.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

{quoted}

"pro players" are in competitive team play where they can coordinate ward removal much better. Which is why at the top of the post I mention that isn't the same thing and not being referred to.

but u state being gold 1 u know where the enemy is with out wards and you are far from pro... sooo the fact that they have wards and see the value in them and when they play rank they still buy wards.. former pros who are high elo that stream or any high elo player buys wards

the stats prove that the higher rank the more wards are placed.

apparently you ignore all of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKdcjJoXeEY

WoonStruck1 votes

Because you are simply assuming/guessing.

Its not reliable. What if the enemy Skarner/Zac/Sej, etc starts red side when you're on blue team? That's not something you can assume they will do, since it is uncommon, and if you don't literally completely give up farm for 3 minutes after tribrush ward is cleared, they can easily force your flash at any time before they even hit 6 or even score a double kill.

There are so many holes in your argument I don't even know where to begin.

If you assume your enemy is stupid, you are stupid. Simple as that. They are just as capable of your logic as you are, and they will likely mix things up at times with that meta-knowledge, and you WILL get caught out because of that if you don't have a strong ward line.


Also, I'm seeing silver 5...not gold 1. After nearly 500 games. Plus, you hardly play support. You mainly jungle Shaco. Try to play support in 90% of your games with your 'strategy' and see how far it gets you.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

Because you are simply assuming/guessing.

Its not reliable. What if the enemy Skarner/Zac/Sej, etc starts red side when you're on blue team? That's not something you can assume they will do, since it is uncommon, and if you don't literally completely give up farm for 3 minutes after tribrush ward is cleared, they can easily force your flash at any time before they even hit 6 or even score a double kill.

There are so many holes in your argument I don't even know where to begin.

If you assume your enemy is stupid, you are stupid. Simple as that. They are just as capable of your logic as you are, and they will likely mix things up at times with that meta-knowledge, and you WILL get caught out because of that if you don't have a strong ward line.

You ward the enemy junglers start =\ If unavailable you will still get vision of their location or see the delay or either top or bottom coming to lane. MANY ways to know where the jungler is off the bat.

Also yes I'm "guessing" but my guess still only has so many possible outcomes... Walls make it so champs can ONLY move in certain directions. If you are heading to a certain area you can always see which angle their champ is moving at which always gives it away.

No flash no life1 votes

{quoted}

So I just don't get it if I can do this... why can't anyone else?

There are two answers I have for you, one disapproves of you and the other overly flatters you.

You may possess the skills way beyond what a gold 1 dictates, hence you find it incomprehensible how your bad teammates are unable to think and play on the same level as you are against opponents that are equally bad and hence extremely easy for you to play around. Against ppl of your caliber, you might think otherwise; I mean, if your idea is true, then why do professional teams get ruby sightstone on top of a warding junglar, then?

The other possibility is that, while it seems unlikely...you already possess skills and insights way beyond all the players currently exist on this planet and can easily dictate everyone else. However, even if this is the case, it still doesn't change the fact that 99% of the player base is unable to achieve such superhuman feat, hence the need of vision is still necessary despite having an exception such as yourself.

{quoted}

But for them to "remove" wards they have to have a sweeper or pink. Pinks cost money and sweepers have cool downs. So no actually that doesn't add up =\ you would lose about 10% of wards not 80%.

You have to assume your opponents have at least 5 pinks with spares ready to replace, at least 2 sweepers if not more, and as others have mentioned constant raptor buff. I have not been in a single ranked with fewer than that amount, be it my team or opponent team, until it gets to late game, and I'm a gold V scrub. It only gets more extreme as games get more competitive.

MrEnder1 votes

[{quoted}](name=No flash no life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PU1zgbig,comment-id=000300000002,timestamp=2016-08-29T05:46:33.294+0000)

There are two answers I have for you, one disapproves of you and the other overly flattering you.

You may possess the skills way beyond what a gold 1 dictates, hence you find it incomprehensible how your bad teammates are unable to think and play on the same level as you are against opponents that are equally bad and hence extremely easy for you to play around. Against ppl of your caliber, you might think otherwise; I mean, if your idea is true, then why the hell do professional teams get ruby sightstone on top of a warding junglar, then?

The other possibility is that, while it seems unlikely...you already possess skills and insights way beyond all the players currently exist on this planet and can easily dictates everyone else. However, even if this is the case, it still doesn't change the fact that 99% of the player base is unable to achieve such superhuman feat, hence the need of vision is still necessary despite having an exception such as yourself.

But its not superhuman! Anyone can do it! you just stare at your map constantly with one eye and your other eye on the screen... you keep all spells on smart cast always and just get use to it. All junglers have clear speeds around the same time. Once you know where they start you know roughly where they will head next up to two possibilities of old school (start blue rush red hardly used anymore) or the more recent start golems/frog head to buff then continue on the line. Each one takes time you just simply watch your clock. You know roughly which lane the jungler is closest to. You also simply look at the state of each lane how pushed they are how well they are doing and compare it to other lanes. Junglers always head to the easiest lane to gank so if top lane is the easiest to gank and their jungle rotation is near top then top is about to be ganked its that simple. This doesn't take super human skills to figure out... its just watching a clock while watching a map while comparing lanes. Yes there are other factors but these are the basic ones and I didn't want this post to get to long...

WoonStruck1 votes

Let's also consider that he plays AD Thresh 'support' in ranked.

Let's also consider that he plays AD Tryn 'support' in ranked.

Let's also consider that he mostly plays AP Shaco 'support' with ignite/TP in ranked.

Let's also consider that he plays full tank 'Morde' support. As if that actually offers anything outside of an unreliable gimmick that Yorick does a LOT better.

Etc...


Forget about sightstone. This guy doesn't think support is even necessary.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

Let's also consider that he plays AD Thresh support in ranked.

Let's also consider that he plays AD Tryn support in ranked.

Let's also consider that he mostly plays AP Shaco support with ignite/TP in ranked.

Hey the AD tryn was due to I was suppose to be top and the support stole my lane... and the AD thresh was bruiser thresh and it was situational... and my AP Shaco is positive win ratio... and people in challenger also use AP shaco support =
Can't remember the mord support... might have been my gf... she was playing on my account... 90% of my games are the shaco ones...

WoonStruck2 votes

People in challenger troll because there's nothing else for them to do. They have nothing left to prove, so they either play the game normally or use something crazy. This has been a constant for that level of skill since ranked was released.

Gimmicks become less reliable the higher you go, especially if your skill and meta-knowledge of reactions cannot keep up. You will find yourself losing more and more if you can even manage to climb via skill/meta-knowledge.

If you're okay with that, then fine. But DO NOT have the audacity to suggest people can expect to compete by following your lead.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

People in challenger troll because there's nothing else for them to do. They have nothing to prove, so they either play the game normally or use something crazy. This has been a constant for that level of skill since ranked was released.

Gimmicks become less reliable the higher you go, especially if your skill and meta-knowledge of reactions cannot keep up. You will find yourself losing more and more if you can even manage to climb via skill/meta-knowledge.

no no pink ward is diamond and challenger and he mains AP shaco top and support. I am not copying him but just use him as a reference that it DOES work at high elo. It works because boxes make the lane VERY hard to gank. Shaco also has INSANE early game burst which allows him to easily set up kills. He can also set up traps which can easily kill all level of players if done right. Shaco is just one of those champs who really require you understand players very well something the average player even at high elo just doesn't have.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

{quoted}

no no pink ward is diamond and challenger and he mains AP shaco top and support. I am not copying him but just use him as a reference that it DOES work at high elo. It works because boxes make the lane VERY hard to gank. Shaco also has INSANE early game burst which allows him to easily set up kills. He can also set up traps which can easily kill all level of players if done right. Shaco is just one of those champs who really require you understand players very well something the average player even at high elo just doesn't have.

i just play Nunu into Shaco problem solved

WoonStruck1 votes

EMPIRE.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

{quoted}

EMPIRE.

sorry i dont follow? care to explain?

WoonStruck1 votes

You don't know about Nunu Empire?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

{quoted}

You don't know about Nunu Empire?

im gonna go with no....

WoonStruck1 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDU0EkLDBs8&feature=related

Became more popular with TheOddOne, who commonly played support junglers like Nunu. He would always trash talk people on his stream, mentioning the Nunu empire.

Ulting in a bush is refered to as 'Empire' now.

One of the memes developed early on in the game's life.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

{quoted}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDU0EkLDBs8&feature=related

Became more popular with TheOddOne, who commonly played support junglers like Nunu.

One of the memes developed early on in the game's life. ahh got it man thats rough on the eyes compared to now lol

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eO3XmuVry4

thats is how i feel when people justify not getting a sightstone

Bob41313 votes

There is only one time I want to see a support without a sightstone: when they're in the enemy team. Free ward co trip is great. Buy a sightstone or don't support, unless it's norms then ya can mess around with other builds.

No flash no life3 votes

the problem with your theory is that you are not taking into the account of enemy's sweepers and pink wards. It is safe to assume that at least 80% of the wards your theory sets up are going to be removed by your opponents and you are unable to re-ward after without sightstone's stock. Supports in competitive plays rush ruby sightstone (no, they don't stop at sightstone and proceed to aegis after) for that reason because they need that amount of ward stocks when the team demands it.

Jo0o3 votes

Vision is an incredibly valuable tool in this game, and as others have said, top-tier supports make it among their highest priorities. Plus, given the lack of gold available to supports in typical games, it's a great way to contribute without needing farm/kills.

Plus, 800 gold isn't much, and the sighstone even has a nice chunk of health on it to ease the pain of the investment.

Raeyxx3 votes

Must we really start the Great Sightstone Debate again? :/

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

{quoted}

Must we really start the Great Sightstone Debate again? :/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-KPhJ9-vs

Sukishoo3 votes

As a support main, a item 2049 is the best item you can buy. Everything ELSE is situational.

AnCa2 votes

That is absurd, even when I play a mage support and I do that alot. I always get a sightstone. "Not get a sightstone" That is almost equivelent to saying not CS'ing is ok for your adc.

VvVVvV2 votes

Let the down votes speak for themselves. smh

Subject 52 votes

The only time no sightstone strat should be played is if I am playing Akali and have 20 kills by 10 minutes. Because at that point, it doesn't matter if I get caught out in a 1v5- you already know that I am getting a pentakill.

DarkRitual2 votes

You are completely wrong. Sightstone is super important for when you need to move your vision line up and don't want to wait 2 minutes for enough Yellow trinket charges. Getting 2 blue trinkets in midgame is super important so you can track rotations, which severly disables your ability to place stealth wards.

Having a sightstone lets you completely ward up one objective, then recall and ward up another. When you're pushing a lane, you need to move vision up. You can't do this if you place a trinket ward in one spot, and have to wait for it to recharge to place another.

The other team will likely have a sweeper or Raptor Buff. So a number of places wards are going to be removed, which will negate a bit of your vision. Being able to quickly replace those wards is important.

Might I also suggest playing AD Shaco instead of AP. It's so much better right now, and you'll feed less, maybe turn around that losing streak you're on.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

You are completely wrong. Sightstone is super important for when you need to move your vision line up and don't want to wait 2 minutes for enough Yellow trinket charges. Getting 2 blue trinkets in midgame is super important so you can track rotations, which severly disables your ability to place stealth wards.

Having a sightstone lets you completely ward up one objective, then recall and ward up another. When you're pushing a lane, you need to move vision up. You can't do this if you place a trinket ward in one spot, and have to wait for it to recharge to place another.

The other team will likely have a sweeper or Raptor Buff. So a number of places wards are going to be removed, which will negate a bit of your vision. Being able to quickly replace those wards is important.

Might I also suggest playing AD Shaco instead of AP. It's so much better right now, and you'll feed less, maybe turn around that losing streak you're on.

AP shaco is for laning and AD is for jungle. I play support shaco... the current losing streak was due to internet trouble =\ had a day where I kept trying to play but it kept lagging really bad didn't clear till quite later that night and I'm unsure why. Normally I only lag for 5 mins tops if I have REALLY bad lag and then I can just watch youtube till it goes away then que again which I kept doing XD but the lag kept starting mid game on me :(

Sukishoo1 votes

If you are supporting, you really shouldn't be using TP either. summoner 3 is what helps your ADC and team way more. And an AD Shaco can be just as powerful in lane as he is in JG.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

If you are supporting, you really shouldn't be using TP either. summoner 3 is what helps your ADC and team way more. And an AD Shaco can be just as powerful in lane as he is in JG.

Would Agree with you in many cases. But a support either takes ignite or exhaust. They take it with Flash. So my TP is replacing my flash not my exhaust. My ignite replaces my exaust. Ignite is an offensive option rather than a defensive option for additional damage. The best defense can sometimes be a good offense. My main is shaco support which uses ignite not exaust as he is a close combat nuke style support so he needs damage and to kill the enemy quick. If the enemy is dead they can't hurt you thus exhaust is useless. He also has boxes which control the lane making it very very hard to gank a shaco support lane so exhaust also doesn't do much vs junglers on shaco. However many other utility type supports and some tank supports would yes benefit far more from exhaust.

Also AP shaco has FAR FAR FAR more punch in lane than AD shaco does due to his ability to set up the lane with boxes. You just have to know how to bait REALLY good.

DarkRitual1 votes

Shaco offers literally nothing for teamfights for the team though. Even in lane it sounds horrible. Squishy, almost no poke, no sustain, no shields, no heals. He is mildly annoying, with only his box for cc, but is in no way a good SUPPORT. I'm all for playing off-meta, but at least pick someone who brings things to the table. Certainly not a greedy champion like Shaco as well.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

Shaco offers literally nothing for teamfights for the team though. Even in lane it sounds horrible. Squishy, almost no poke, no sustain, no shields, no heals. He is mildly annoying, with only his box for cc, but is in no way a good SUPPORT. I'm all for playing off-meta, but at least pick someone who brings things to the table. Certainly not a greedy champion like Shaco as well.

Shaco actually is incredible in team fights and has VERY good poke. He has the highest damage single target non skill shot in the game. You probably have just never played with or against a good shaco... which is understandable as only 1 in 1000 shaco's are even remotely good =\

As for what shaco brings as a support he brings lane control. Lane control makes it very hard for the enemy to engage or gank. If they gank they end up in a group of boxes and dead. If they hard engage its the same thing. Boxes especially early game do A LOT of damage and they fear so you pretty much instantly die. You just build on hit items as well and it REQUIRES specific runes. Also once shaco gets his clone he becomes somewhat of a damage soak which also pops for A LOT of damage early game especially when he is AP. But items you just build frostfang first to sheen to hextech revolver to boots of speed to fiendish codex then you finish off those items in the order you need them usually hextech gunblade first for this active which does a lot of damage when used in combo of shaco's abilities letting him one shot people. So early game you control the lane and nuke down the enemy for your ADC you can poke but you don't need to as Q E pretty much almost kills most champs early game. You get money just in time for the enemy to get stronger so you buy each of those cheap items which keeps you ahead on nuke damage. Late game you just jump squishies similar to how Vi would and nuke them then pop ult which does insane AoE damage to anyone else around and you Q away only to repeat the attack =\ Q becomes a very short CD with CDR.

A little Peepo2 votes

Vision is a team responsibility not just supports, with that being said sight stone is an item you SHOULD be buying as a support because it helps you A LOT. In the early game you need vision to keep you safe from ganks and helps your team out a lot in objective control. That is why you are a support, please support your team in the early phases of the game so they can solely focus on getting items that will benefit the team as a whole. A support not buying sight stone is like if your tank went damage instead of building health and resistances. I mean yeah tanks can benefit from damage but they help their team by going tank more than damage.

Understand that your adc needs to focus on damage first and them having to buy something that doesn't help them is just screwing your entire team over. Sightstone is a must buy early game and if you won't buy it then don't complain when your adc buys it and gets stomped in trades by the opposing adc/team.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

can't you just walk around the skitter bug though?

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

can't you just walk around the skitter bug though?

no you can still be seen =\ your time on minimap is just A LOT shorter.

Colgate Gator1 votes

I know it's frowned upon rankshaming people in the boards, but damn sometimes it's difficult.

Vision, alongside Movement speed, are probably the most underapreciated aspects of the game (and probably last hitting minions).

Kaioko1 votes

I've had entire teamfights be decided by the fact that certain wards were placed in the correct locations and the support managed to remove opposing wards by using his red trinket. There's no way to make sightstone a mandatory item but considering they've made so many build paths from it with all the Eye items on top of the regular sightstones, supports would be a fool for not buying it - and quite frankly should play another role.

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