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Noticing a Trend on Games with Toxic Players

MrEnder··4 votes·908 views

So over many years of playing ranking I'm really starting to notice a trend... I will have a few days of incredibly good games with few trolls and my win ratio really goes up. Then suddenly I get into a game with a troll and I lose. Okay so ya it happens I keep playing but next game is the same as well... Then suddenly I go from great games to lots of AFKers on my team, lots of toxic players, teams that have no team work refusing to play together what not. So I go on a losing streak and my win ratio drops a bit. Then this ends and my win ratio goes up a bit more than I lost... This goes on for a while. I'll then eventually since I'm winning more than losing rank up to the next rank and find myself having to play incredibly hard to carry my team because we have a lot more trolls than normal. If I can get past the hump of trolls at the beginning of the rank I'm fine but often this get me put back down a rank again and this whole trend starts all over again...

So I don't change I don't get toxic heck I usually try to keep the peace on my team. I play the same champ pretty much always and win my lane 90% of the time. So what is causing this constant "oh this player is doing good better throw him in with the toxic ones" ... "oh he is doing bad again lets throw him back in with the non toxic players" ... "oh he ranked up lets throw someone into his game who often AFKs" is what it feels like...

What is causing this 0.0

25 Comments

Tyrone Lannister1 votes

The almighty 50% winrate. Kappa

MrEnder1 votes

But I'm over 50% win ratio...

Dragfin2 votes

{quoted}

But I'm over 50% win ratio...

Their bullshit matchmaker is going to keep you close to 50% on purpose which is the most toxic thing in anything competitive, yet RIOT in their infinite wisdom won't recognize because they lack the best intelligent indicator there is, which is common sense. That is what he is saying.

Atanchan1 votes

... So, competitive matchmaking is the most toxic thing in anything competitive?

Like, seriously, this is just headscratching. Do you think it's supposed to get easier when your MMR goes up?

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

... So, competitive matchmaking is the most toxic thing in anything competitive?

Like, seriously, this is just headscratching. Do you think it's supposed to get easier when your MMR goes up?

No its not about it getting "easier" its about the players behavior when you are doing well goes significantly down.

Atanchan1 votes

I feel like Occam's razor is underappreciated here, but then again I suppose it wouldn't be the boards if they didn't go through an incredible amount of tinfoil on a daily basis.

Is it really that hard to go "oh, maybe the matchmaker tries to keep you from being matched with the same people in the same period of time" which results in getting the toxic players playing at the time once you've gone through a bunch of the non-toxic ones? Then more players at your MMR log on during those matches, fill the matchmaking pool back up with more candidates you haven't yet played with, and match you with those.

Remember that confirmation bias is a thing and the fact that you're going to remember negative experiences far more vividly than positive ones - so a string of toxic players may not even be a proper string all the time, with some games without them popping up in-between.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

... So, competitive matchmaking is the most toxic thing in anything competitive?

Like, seriously, this is just headscratching. Do you think it's supposed to get easier when your MMR goes up?

Not at all. But it shouldn't be so one sided either to where you don't have a chance like they do to people on win streaks. There have been more one sided games this season then I have ever seen in the 3 years of playing league. They did something to the algorithm and not in a good way.

Atanchan1 votes

Y'sure it's the algorithm and not the game itself?

I mean a lot of stuff this season has been added to really help snowball leads, and while those very same tools can be used for comebacks as well it's really not surprising that you'll see more one-sided games when one team can easily accelerate their lead after managing early outplays.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

Y'sure it's the algorithm and not the game itself?

I mean a lot of stuff this season has been added to really help snowball leads, and while those very same tools can be used for comebacks as well it's really not surprising that you'll see more one-sided games when one team can easily accelerate their lead after managing early outplays.

Look at the matchups after you lose in a landslide.

Atanchan2 votes

... Like, counters and such?

Man, let's be real: match ups like those mean jack shit in lower ranks, and still don't tell the story in higher ones. Sure, a bad match up will make the game more difficult for a lane, but that's a. one lane and b. League doesn't really have hard counters that would delete that one lane from the game. So even if a player gets counterpicked, the game's result is still far from decided, and that's assuming that the person who picked the counter even knows how to play the match up.

Hell, you want to know what happens when I lose in a landslide? It's usually because I get several games where I lose my lane ( which is something I'm exceptionally good at when I'm not just playing my lane as a farming simulator ) and aren't in position to take advantage of how I can claw my way back into the game ( through, say, picks and ganks ), I fail to press my advantage hard enough and end up losing it, or I'm doing amazing ... and then proceed to do a fatal mistake or continuous dumb shit and throw it all away. It's honestly incredibly rare for me to get a game where the loss is entirely out of my hand; it's frankly more common for me to contribute barely anything and still win because the rest of my team were far more on-point.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

... Like, counters and such?

Man, let's be real: match ups like those mean jack shit in lower ranks, and still don't tell the story in higher ones. Sure, a bad match up will make the game more difficult for a lane, but that's a. one lane and b. League doesn't really have hard counters that would delete that one lane from the game. So even if a player gets counterpicked, the game's result is still far from decided, and that's assuming that the person who picked the counter even knows how to play the match up.

Hell, you want to know what happens when I lose in a landslide? It's usually because I get several games where I lose my lane ( which is something I'm exceptionally good at when I'm not just playing my lane as a farming simulator ) and aren't in position to take advantage of how I can claw my way back into the game ( through, say, picks and ganks ), I fail to press my advantage hard enough and end up losing it, or I'm doing amazing ... and then proceed to do a fatal mistake or continuous dumb shit and throw it all away. It's honestly incredibly rare for me to get a game where the loss is entirely out of my hand; it's frankly more common for me to contribute barely anything and still win because the rest of my team were far more on-point.

It's fine, do what we do in America, say a whole bunch of BS and ignore the real problems. Agree to disagree. Maybe my experience is different from yours. Have a nice day.

Atanchan2 votes

I'm not entirely sure if you're being self-deprecating or admitting that you have your head shoved up your ass, but you're not willing to change that.

If it's the latter, give your spine my regards. It's probably crying out for the sweet release of death right now.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not entirely sure if you're being self-deprecating or admitting that you have your head shoved up your ass, but you're not willing to change that.

If it's the latter, give your spine my regards. It's probably crying out for the sweet release of death right now.

Something wrong with me dropping the argument agreeing to disagree? My experience is far different from yours obviously. Why beat a dead horse or are you just an egotistical POS that needs to argue because nobody can possibly be right if it isn't yourself?

I'm guessing egotistical POS. How do you like working for RIOT? I see a problem in my experience. I am sorry that is a hard concept to grasp for you.

Atanchan1 votes

Mostly because

{quoted}

It's fine, do what we do in America, say a whole bunch of BS and ignore the real problems.

I wasn't sure how to interpret that - my first guesses were either that you were admitting that you weren't really saying anything of value or that you were admitting that you knew you were wrong, but didn't want to talk about what you thought was the real problem that you were running into.

Sanctimonious1 votes

How the fuck are you bronze 3? Do you just not play much?

Atanchan1 votes

Pretty much.

Although I'm not sure exactly what my "true" ranking ( boy, what a nonsense term ) would be even if I could commit to the grind. Last two seasons I placed Silver something or other, and it wouldn't surprise me with how I actually play solo that that is where I'd be stuck while climbing. At the same time, though, I might actually be Gold-quality at the current moment, but there's really no telling until I can actually commit to the climb.

Probably just need a duo buddy or something. Not only would that help me with my commitment, but I'm someone who thrives more with coordination - which is probably not a surprise, considering I main tanks and initiators with a side of supports.

Also, as much as I feel I'm pretty knowledgeable, I'm also not anywhere near excellent at applying that knowledge and because of that I tend to make stupid decisions that I immediately regret. Or cocky decisions that I immediately regret. My knowledge mostly comes from absorbing it from a great many sources, mixing it together, and figuring out what's true and what's not through both my own experiences and the experiences of others that I can actually see - which results in a pretty big disconnect, actually, when I try to play DOTA because whereas people say that Bronze League and Challenger League are entirely different games and they're right, it's still not nearly as large a rift in DOTA where pulling, stacking, lane distribution, etc. are either wildly different or flat-out don't exist in low level play whereas they're essential parts of high level play.

Like, seriously. Imagine if duo tops were actually a common thing in ranked instead of just disappearing somewhere in the pre-30 climb and you could actually flat-out hard deny the enemy jungler's camps for some gold, and nobody used that tactic below Diamond despite how game changing it is. That's just scratching the surface of how different DOTA becomes as you climb the ladder.

DeathBurst1 votes

That's not how matchmaking work.

Yes, the matchmaking is built so that you win/lose 50% when you have reached your true level.

BUT! That doesn't mean he directly forces you to win or lose matches "on purpose" if you deviate from 50% winrate.

Basically, the matchmaking tries to estimate your skills. Let's say it thinks your skills are around Silver 3*, but you actually have skills equivalent to Gold 2. It will gives you matches in Silver 3, and it will be easy games and you will win more than 50%, and the matchmaking will update his estimation and upgrade you to Silver 2, then 1, etc. As long as you keep winning more than 50%, the matchmaking will keep upgrading you, until you reach Gold 1. But since you're only Gold 2, at this point, you will start losing more than you win, and with less than 50% winrate, the matchmaking will downgrade you, maybe a bit below Gold 2. You'll oscillate a bit around Gold 2, hopefully not too long, and then you'll stabilize at Gold 2 and you'll have exactly 50% winrate.

So, again, yes the matchmaking tries to put you at 50% winrate, but at no point in time did it actually look at your winrate and said "hmmm, this guy is at 55% winrate, I must give him an impossible-to-win game so he gets back to 50%".

*. So actually, it doesn't directly use Silver/Gold/etc., but instead it's a hidden statistic called MMR, that's why you can be matched against Gold when you are still Silver, etc. I'm just using Gold and Silver because it's easier to follow the explanation that way.

D1rtFarmer1 votes

i completely agree... i often wondered if they purposely threw me into a lower tier queue as a victim of my own success. i turn toxic after a while.. usually by predicting the future.

Spoofghoul1 votes

matchmaking algorith trying to keep you at 50% winrate

if you still stay above it you rank up which should make it harder

its bollocks

MrEnder1 votes

So its not just me other people have noticed this =\

IRyzeForNidalee1 votes

As somebody with several different accounts... I'm convinced prisoner island is real. One account will get great games while another account will get stuck in an awful cesspool of human scum. Especially if I got reported for a few games in a short time frame for feeding or w/e. Then I can expect to need to mute all for the next couple dozen games on that account because nothing worth reading will be said.

WastelandKittah1 votes

{quoted}

Then I can expect to need to mute all for the next couple dozen games on that account because nothing worth reading will be said.

There is NEVER anything worth reading in chat,you have no reason to use chat with the new alt-ping system. I don't care about whiney little cucks spewing garbage in chat,but even I just mute all now. So if you're soft like 90% of this player base and get hurt by words mute all its easy and theres not reason not do with the new alt ping system

DeathBurst1 votes

So, I posted this comment in reply to someone else in the thread, but I want to make sure that you see it too, OP, and that you don't go away thinking the matchmaking is making you lose games on purpose, because it's complete bullsh*t.

Yes, the matchmaking is built so that you win/lose 50% when you have reached your true level.

BUT! That doesn't mean he directly forces you to win or lose matches "on purpose" if you deviate from 50% winrate.

Basically, the matchmaking tries to estimate your skills. Let's say it thinks your skills are around Silver 3*, but you actually have skills equivalent to Gold 2. It will gives you matches in Silver 3, and it will be easy games and you will win more than 50%, and the matchmaking will update his estimation and upgrade you to Silver 2, then 1, etc. As long as you keep winning more than 50%, the matchmaking will keep upgrading you, until you reach Gold 1. But since you're only Gold 2, at this point, you will start losing more than you win, and with less than 50% winrate, the matchmaking will downgrade you, maybe a bit below Gold 2. You'll oscillate a bit around Gold 2, hopefully not too long, and then you'll stabilize at Gold 2 and you'll have exactly 50% winrate.

So, again, yes the matchmaking tries to put you at 50% winrate, but at no point in time did it actually look at your winrate and said "hmmm, this guy is at 55% winrate, I must give him an impossible-to-win game so he gets back to 50%".

*. So actually, it doesn't directly use Silver/Gold/etc., but instead it's a hidden statistic called MMR, that's why you can be matched against Gold when you are still Silver, etc. I'm just using Gold and Silver because it's easier to follow the explanation that way.

Sanctimonious1 votes

Over playing. Abuse win streaks, and play norms in loose streaks. Play both srs, and you won't be silver anymore.

Erockandroll1 votes

Matchmaking can't distinguish Toxic from non toxic. Though Riot did claim that Toxic players loss 27% more games. (I think that's what the statistic was) that's completely relative to their skill level, which may not be accurately represented because the system focuses on win rate.

As far as I can tell, it's completely a roll of the die.

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