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"I didn't get any/enough ____ so we lost because of that its all the ____ fault"

MrEnder··30 votes·2,389 views

I didn't get any jungle ganks so we lost because of that its all the jungles fault I didn't get enough wards so we lost because of that its all the supports fault I didn't get any teleports to my lane so we lost because of that its all the tops fault I didn't get mid following his lane to my lane so we lost because of that its all mids fault And so on

Allow me to explain if someone is saying any of these after they themselves have died this is called not taking responsibility. If someone dies it is almost always their own fault. The only exception to this is if example ADC gets out of position and support jumps in to take a bunch of damage to keep it away from the ADC sacrificing themselves so the ADC will live. This is pretty much the only time that someone else can cause your death. If you die it's because you made a mistake.

If you die because the enemy jungler ganks your lane. You were out of position which allowed the jungler to do so. If you had proper ward you could have moved further forward. If you don't then don't move forward its that simple. If you don't have wards and die due to vision once again its your fault for knowing that and still choosing to move forward without wards. If you are losing against the opponent in your lane it is because they out skilled you so YOU are doing bad. Its not the junglers fault that YOU are not better skilled and didn't come to babysit you to make up for YOUR lack of skill. If their top teleports to your lane and gets a kill but your top doesn't then why were you in a position to allow their top to teleport in behind you with that extremely long teleport time. If mid ganks your lane and your mid doesn't follow and their mid gets a kill. Then why were you in a position that allowed you to die? If you had simply not been there their mid would have walked all the way to your lane losing CS only to have to turn around and walk back putting your mid ahead. So yes its your fault for dieing almost always. If someone else feeds and the enemy is extremely ahead then avoid that player or only fight that player as a team. If you get caught by them and die its your fault. If you die in a team fight for them to die. You over stayed in the team fight and its your fault.

No one likes getting blamed for someone elses mistakes this is just annoying and frustrating. Its not positive towards the gaming environment and should be reported as its toxic behavior so if you see a player doing this please report them.

So TLDR if you die its your fault and accept that take responsibility. Also report anyone doing this so we can show we don't like this negative attitude in our games.

40 Comments

Kaioko12 votes

I agree that certain people abuse blaming others however it's really not that simple. If the mid and jungler come bottom and tower dive there's only so much you can do and you should expect your own team to at minimum push the mid lane.

MrEnder7 votes

{quoted}

I agree that certain people abuse blaming others however it's really not that simple. If the mid and jungler come bottom and tower dive there's only so much you can do and you should expect your own team to at minimum push the mid lane.

Agreed that it does make your job "harder" but still that CAN be survived. Sure you might have to lose your tower but that just means you move to another lane and take out their tower. Don't let yourself get dived. Sure sometimes this is impossible but honestly for the most part its very avoidable. If mid leaves their lane you should be on the alert you should be able to watch mid leave their lane. You have really no excuse as to why you were not watching the minimap.

Spoofghoul1 votes

pretty much this

dont die in the dive, its better to give up the tower , otherwise they dive you, kill you, then take your tower anyway.

UberAffe2 votes

unless you are a mechanical god and know for a fact you will kill at least 2 of them just leave. Otherwise they will kill you and then get your turret, so you might as well deny them the kill.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

unless you are a mechanical god and know for a fact you will kill at least 2 of them just leave. Otherwise they will kill you and then get your turret, so you might as well deny them the kill.

Well said.

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

I must be a mechanical god.

Battlecast Sona2 votes

this is actually the problem - you don't have to stay in the lane. At all. You see it happen in pro games all the time - 3-4 man dive top or bottom in laneswaps and the toplaner just... leaves. It's not worth the gold/exp. If more players in lower Elo would learn that sometimes the best choice is to push B or run back to your second tower (and then push B), I think they'd climb much more easily.

Kaioko1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Battlecast Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L7E87jXA,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2016-09-01T17:24:17.238+0000)

this is actually the problem - you don't have to stay in the lane. At all. You see it happen in pro games all the time - 3-4 man dive top or bottom in laneswaps and the toplaner just... leaves. It's not worth the gold/exp. If more players in lower Elo would learn that sometimes the best choice is to push B or run back to your second tower (and then push B), I think they'd climb much more easily.

You're assuming I'm talking about defending an outer turret or that the opposing laners are going to give you a choice in the matter. The fact is - if you have the possibility of successfully defending a turret you should attempt to. Most higher ELOs can simulate in their minds before actually going in how a fight will turn out. Giving up one objective after another without your team taking any when their lane is gone is a sure way of losing the game and they therefore do deserve getting the blame.

WrathfulDoom5 votes

"I didn't get any/enough SEX so we lost because of that it is all the TEEMO's fault"

most valid excuse.

MonkeyMadness2 votes

You are correct to say that playing the blame game is simply deflecting responsibility. HOWEVER, all the examples you gave are perfect examples of players ignoring their responsibilities, as well. In short, don't flame your jungler for not ganking, but please understand that is you jungler's job to gank.

MrEnder2 votes

{quoted}

You are correct to say that playing the blame game is simply deflecting responsibility. HOWEVER, all the examples you gave are perfect examples of players ignoring their responsibilities, as well. In short, don't flame your jungler for not ganking, but please understand that is you jungler's job to gank.

No this is where you are actually very incorrect. It is the junglers job to jungle :) It is the mids job to mid. Jungle is a lane just like any other and they need to win their lane above all else. If they win it by ganking then they gank. If they win it by out farming then they farm. Each champion and game requires a different play style. So no a junglers job is not to gank his job is to jungle :)

MonkeyMadness1 votes

I'm actually a plat jungle main, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that a jungler that fails to pressure lanes is a jungler that loses. The same goes for literally every other item on your list. While it is no one else's job to "win your lane", seeing as how this is a team game, it is certainly their job to help when possible.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

I'm actually a plat jungle main, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that a jungler that fails to pressure lanes is a jungler that loses. The same goes for literally every other item on your list. While it is no one else's job to "win your lane", seeing as how this is a team game, it is certainly their job to help when possible.

You are assuming Ive never been high ranked ^.^ Please don't make assumptions ^.^ I can not deny you are correct in what you are saying but I can also say you are still only looking at the small picture not the big picture.

MonkeyMadness1 votes

How do you think I carried myself from bronze in season 2? I mained jungle, and I ganked relentlessly. Best way out of elo hell is to take charge of the game, and ganking is the single best way to do that.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

How do you think I carried myself from bronze in season 2? I mained jungle, and I ganked relentlessly. Best way out of elo hell is to take charge of the game, and ganking is the single best way to do that.

depends on which champ you are playing ^.^ depends on your team make up and the enemy team. How well your team is doing so many different variables you have to consider. Its not just "if I gank I win" because you can gank all game and still lose if you dont properly farm or take time to stop and focus objectives. Sometimes the best option is just to farm and get dragons and cover lanes just getting yourself built for team fights.

MonkeyMadness1 votes

Ok, don't be so dense please. Obviously if you don't farm and keep up in level, you will be at a disadvantage. However, if you sit in your jungle and farm all game and refuse to pressure the map, you are absolutely fucking your team over. Every champ will gank differently and in different amounts. Champs like lee and kha thrive on ganks, and should prioritize ganks over farming in most cases. Tank junglers like amumu, hec, and sej should prioritize them roughly equally, as they do not need the same amount of gold as assassin junglers. Farm heavy junglers have effectively been removed from the game after the changes to devourer, but even if you are playing a farm jungler style of jungling, you should always be looking for opportunities to invade the enemy jungle and pressure their jungler, or countergank.

And as for objectives, they are literally all team-oriented. No champ can solo herald and dragon anymore (at least not safely), so almost every time you take one will be following a successful gank, or a play where you respond to pressure on the far side of the map. In short, a jungler's role is to direct the early game through constant map pressure, and ganks are a huge part of that. To say otherwise is just wrong.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

Ok, don't be so dense please. Obviously if you don't farm and keep up in level, you will be at a disadvantage. However, if you sit in your jungle and farm all game and refuse to pressure the map, you are absolutely fucking your team over. Every champ will gank differently and in different amounts. Champs like lee and kha thrive on ganks, and should prioritize ganks over farming in most cases. Tank junglers like amumu, hec, and sej should prioritize them roughly equally, as they do not need the same amount of gold as assassin junglers. Farm heavy junglers have effectively been removed from the game after the changes to devourer, but even if you are playing a farm jungler style of jungling, you should always be looking for opportunities to invade the enemy jungle and pressure their jungler, or countergank.

And as for objectives, they are literally all team-oriented. No champ can solo herald and dragon anymore (at least not safely), so almost every time you take one will be following a successful gank, or a play where you respond to pressure on the far side of the map. In short, a jungler's role is to direct the early game through constant map pressure, and ganks are a huge part of that. To say otherwise is just wrong.

Shaco and Malz can both very easily solo dragon level 3 and shaco can EXTREMELY easily solo dragon level 6 with little to no fear =\ you dont even lose any health... and if shit hits the fan you can just Q away =\ So no you are like I said looking at things narrow minded. Some champs like amumu which you mentioned can be played herbavour rather than carnivor where they spend a large portion of their time in their own jungle and ganking little with priority to get tanky with their ults team play potential. Then with shaco you can go through the whole early game just in the jungle counter jungling and securing dragons up until team fighting starts and be very successful due to this gives your team full awareness of where the enemy jungler is and lets them take advantage and push lanes harder if they have the potential to which gives earlier turrets and earlier turrets means faster gold for entire team. Yes if you can gank there are many cases you will want to gank. But ganking is not the job of the jungler it is ONE of the potential things a jungler CAN do. Just like mid CAN roam and most good mids will roam but many good mids will also just dominate their lane and never leave mid till late game. It all depends on the play style your team/champion/game needs.

MonkeyMadness1 votes

Any semi competent enemy jungler will stop you from soloing dragon. Why is it that people don't respect the fact that plat players know a thing or two? Ya, I get it, I'm not diamond, but come on man.

And if you take amumu and you just farm up, enjoy the loss. Current meta on amumu makes him EXTREMELY effective at the mid-game mark (and the beginning of the late game), but if you get to the point where people are getting 6 items, you start to fall off hard.

Also, I find it utterly hilarious that you picked shaco as your example. Shaco serves literally 0 function other than to apply pressure and get cheese kills from stealth. If you play shaco and you aren't prioritizing ganks over all else, please play a different game.

MrEnder1 votes

{quoted}

Any semi competent enemy jungler will stop you from soloing dragon. Why is it that people don't respect the fact that plat players know a thing or two? Ya, I get it, I'm not diamond, but come on man.

And if you take amumu and you just farm up, enjoy the loss. Current meta on amumu makes him EXTREMELY effective at the mid-game mark (and the beginning of the late game), but if you get to the point where people are getting 6 items, you start to fall off hard.

Also, I find it utterly hilarious that you picked shaco as your example. Shaco serves literally 0 function other than to apply pressure and get cheese kills from stealth. If you play shaco and you aren't prioritizing ganks over all else, please play a different game.

Shaco has fantastic early game pressence and most games yes you prefer to be aggressive and gank often and lots. But quite a few games you simply can't do that. There are little to no chances to gank. So instead you counter jungle and farm up making sure to secure dragon. Also this is why pro players always carry pink wards on them. When they get to dragon they just drop a pink ward clear any wards there and continue. If someone comes shaco just simply Qs away letting his clone switch targets to the enemy dragon hits enemy they find themselves at quite a disadvantage and either have to back off or die. So yes shaco was a good example as he is the king of solo dragons with his boxes and clone. Just takes skill to know how to control the dragon aggro.

I've won more than my fair share of games with shaco without having to gank once =\ don't need to. That being said I've also won many many games with shaco doing non stop ganking. But I usually win when I gank early and then focus objectives by the time I'm level 6 and not ganking at all just pushing towers down and getting dragons.

MonkeyMadness1 votes

Good fkin lord man...

Shaco has fantastic early game pressence and most games yes you prefer to be aggressive and gank often and lots. But quite a few games you simply can't do that.

You can, and with 100% certainty. If you are so reactive that you cannot create ganking opportunities, do us all a favor and never jungle again. However, if you want to be a good player, then you find ways to be proactive, and MAKE gank opportunities with baits, communication, dives, etc.

So instead you counter jungle

...SO BASICALLY, YOU APPLY PRESSURE!!! Ganking and counter jungling serve IDENTICAL purposes: apply pressure on an enemy so that they cannot assist their team as well. Also, counter jungling with shaco usually results in shaco getting kills, so literally the same outcome as a successful gank.

Also this is why pro players always carry pink wards on them. When they get to dragon they just drop a pink ward clear any wards there and continue.

Interesting...so you believe that if you simply clear a ward, no one will suspect that you might be doing dragon? Literally every time I see an enemy jungle drop a pink at dragon, I spam ping the fuck out of the pit and try to get as many people there as possible to interrupt. Also, if you have an ounce of game sense, you will know when the enemy team/jungler is attempting dragon, pink ward or not.

I've won more than my fair share of games with shaco without having to gank once

Not in a game higher than bronze you haven't. Shaco is 100% useless without kills. His clear speed is really not that good, as he has no aoe damage, meaning that he will never keep up with the likes of an amumu, sej, hec, yi, etc unless he ganks frequently.

But I usually win when I gank early and then focus objectives by the time I'm level 6 and not ganking at all just pushing towers down and getting dragons.

Duh, cuz this is how you are supposed to do it...

BeMyFriendPlease2 votes

If you watch your teammates die and blame them because it isnt "your problem/job" to "gank/win their lane"

Than you will lose. Blame bitch and laugh at them all you want,.

YOU WILL STILL LOSE.

play to win, not to feel good about yourself stroking your own ego while the "baddies on your team" lose. Make a difference.

Or don't. Most don't

MorgManBasher2 votes

It's a team game, what you wrote takes away responsibility of other players. It's like if mid and jungle sit around and just farm while bot is being 4 man dove under turret it's apparently their fault even though mid/jungle should be warding with the rest of the team to prevent 4 man dives, taking mid turret or doing something else on the map when that is occuring.

Yes people blame especially in low ELO for their on stupid deaths, but don't take responsibility of lack of team play and working the map away from the rest of the team sitting with their thumbs up their butts while it's happening.

Every lane and jungle should be buying pinks. If you don't you are bad tbh.

Fazuzu1 votes

It's all your fault, OP. I found a person that prefers to live an alternative lifestyle between N and Q in the alphabet

MrEnder1 votes

Wow this got a bigger positive response than I expected XD thanks everyone for supporting this and giving your opinions and comments!

Squidsmastah1 votes

I didn't get any teleports to my lane so we lost because of that its all the tops fault

I got a whole thread written about this right here.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

man i never lose cuz of me its always my teams fault. i play perfect

nice table1 votes

If you die it's because you made a mistake.

or you died because it was worth it to die or maybe you died cause your team was challenged. if you die 1v1 yes its your fault but other than that there are also other reasons.

Kitty Clarissa1 votes

I die plenty on champs but again situations are

You got 4 man ganked in bot lane

You gave your life to someone

Or your going to die so might as well your laner with you .

Other times I'm very agressive and die for it

Nonomonkeyking1 votes

I understand your reasoning and you really should't blame others.

Well unless your support is Tahm Kench and brings you to the enemy fountain.

OldZileanWasBest1 votes

So much bitching from people who jungle and love to afk farm while the enemy jungler has presence. Premades exist and just because you're farming doesn't mean the enemy jungler is too. I've seen a rengar outgank a graves. It's pretty fucking stupid when you have 0 presence and make sure all your lanes have to deal with a 2v1 or 3v2

Rozair2 votes

its also pretty fucking stupid when your laners: dont ward, push their lane, RELY on ganks, stay in lane with low health, someone dies everytime they walk into lane

MorgManBasher1 votes

It's also stupid when your jungler doesn't help you ward, buy pinks and take schuttle crabs for vision. It's not just your laner's job to ward.

MrEnder1 votes

Wow even more comments while I was gone =\

MorgManBasher1 votes

Low ELO in a nutshell:

  1. Enemy top lane teleports bot and ganks, your top laner freezes the lane and last hits rather than taking the tower while taking no responsibilty and applying 0 pressure to the map, blames his bot lane because he's hot garbage.
  2. Jungler is 0-1-1, apart of one kill on the map and a death meanwhile the enemy jungler is 1-0-6 and is taking over the map with his pressure. Your jungler is not only being out ganked but isn't buying pinks or vision, watching your lanes get dove while he's doing wolves. "It's not my job to win your lane, you shouldn't have been overextended!" Well guess what, you should be providing SOMETHING to your team if it's not going to be ganks it better damn well be vision or counter jungling or something. HELP keep tabs on the enemy jungle or lose.
  3. Enemy mid lane constantly roaming accross the map with their jungler, your mid sits mid and doesn't even push the wave, doesn't apply pressure to the map, isn't buying pink wards for vision to help spot roams and is being out roamed horribly. "Not my fault you don't ward!" It's funny how people that aren't supports in low ELO don't think they need to buy vision and then complain when ganks happen.
  4. Bot lane gets crushed without any ganks on them and the enemy supports roams all over the map while the enemy ADC 1 vs 2's. Here is the point where "OMG WE DIDNT GET A GANK" comes into play. No you are hot garbage, you lost 2 vs 2, deal with it. Another situation is where the enemy support roams all over while yours sits bot with your ADC and they can't even take the turret. You are hot garbage, either roam with the enemy support or pressure the enemy ADC and tower dive his ass.
Davarril1 votes

I agree totally, and as a jungle player, it gives me hope that one day my teammates will stop blaming me for THEIR mistakes.

Xintium1 votes

{quoted}

It's a team game, what you wrote takes away responsibility of other players. It's like if mid and jungle sit around and just farm while bot is being 4 man dove under turret it's apparently their fault even though mid/jungle should be warding with the rest of the team to prevent 4 man dives, taking mid turret or doing something else on the map when that is occuring.

Yes people blame especially in low ELO for their on stupid deaths, but don't take responsibility of lack of team play and working the map away from the rest of the team sitting with their thumbs up their butts while it's happening.

Every lane and jungle should be buying pinks.

This represents almost accurately my view. Almost.

Unfortunately, the situation is much, much more complex than what the original poster wrote. While there are cases where it actually can happen that it is a single-player fault, there are also cases where the error is "distributed" on the team (or on some players, i.e., a team subset). This means that there are actually cases when you die and you would have absolutely no way of saving yourself, yet the "mistake" which led to your death wasn't on you, nor was it on a specific player. It is a false dichotomy. This, coupled with the fact that perfect vision doesn't exist, is why pro players (including top-tier korean teams), despite their mechanics, careful warding and map-awareness, still die from ganks.

{quoted}

If someone dies it is almost always their own fault. The only exception to this is if example ADC gets out of position and support jumps in to take a bunch of damage to keep it away from the ADC sacrificing themselves so the ADC will live. This is pretty much the only time that someone else can cause your death. If you die it's because you made a mistake.

I respectfully disagree: (1) "almost always" is an oversimplification of a very complex situation; (2) there are other exceptions. I believe that your opinion (which is shared by many and was also my opinion in the past) stems from prejudices made during laning phase. "If you die 1vs1, it's your fault" generalizes into "if you die, it's your fault". This generalization is not true.

What I strongly disagree with is to play "the blame game". It accomplishes absolutely nothing, albeit induce more flaming and toxicity. And it doesn't matter if the error was on a specific player or not: blaming leads only to worsening the situation. In fact, although this may sound surprising, if the error actually was on a specific player, then more reason to not blame him. Never play the blaming game, regardless if it was actually a specific player's fault or not. You should still take responsibility when you die. But this doesn't imply in any way, shape or form, that it was necessarily your fault (or your fault alone).

We must be very careful when discussing these things, because what actually counts as a "mistake", when you look past mechanical errors and go in decision making, is absolutely non-trivial. Moreover, and this is the funny part, distributed erros are in general not solvable by any single-player action: they require team effort. When you realize the existence of decision-making errors ("macro-game") which cannot be attributed to any specific player, you wake up from the SoloQ illusion: player X dies ---> it's entirely player X fault ---> blame player X ---> if you loose, player X lost us the game (if you win, "I carried dat n00b").

Summarizing.

SoloQ reasoning: Deaths are almost always a single player's fault (this stems from the 1vs1 laning phase and magically generalizes to the whole game). Blame player(s) who died. Blame is answered back. "How can I be faulty in botlane deaths if I was farming jungle?! I wasn't even there!". Flame war starts.

Alternative reasoning: this is a team game. Errors are in general distributed (not the opposite! diametrically opposed conclusion of "almost always"). Never play the blaming game: it's a loose-loose situation. Focus on what you can control (aka, yourself) to minimize risk (but notice: you can never completely remove it!).

When you are able to construct a distributed decision-making error, you will realize that the SoloQ reasoning above is, strictly speaking, nonsense.

BakedLotion1 votes

What if I'm in my fountain and I get fountain dived?

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

what if they 5 man gank your lane and your whole team is farming the jungle?

chipndip11 votes

This thread kind of sucks:

  • You know, just because I lose lane doesn't mean I'm bad. I could have been counter-picked, or I might not have good answers for the enemy's pick to begin with. Maybe I messed up once and the snowball started? You may have gotten outplayed, but you may not be as bad as the situation implies.

  • It's the jungler's job to control the map and create advantages, so in all honesty, junglers should be trying to make sure no one loses lane. It's not the jungler's job to win my lane, but it is their job to help laners do their job, so their job is to be an accessory to me doing my job when needed.

  • Warding is a tool, but it's not a panacea. Even if you put a ward, if it isn't deep enough, sometimes enemies get too close for the ward to help, and if it's farther out, you may see an enemy, but it doesn't alert you if they manage to slip in a bush before you notice them on the map. Even with a Sightstone, you ultimately have to choose between warding nearby bushes that may not even help or warding farther out where it's possible to be caught out and it's possible for enemies to slip by those wards unless there's a team effort to light the whole river up.

  • The stupidest point here is the notion that you want your laners to "never put themselves in a position to be ganked by mid/top". How the heck are your laners going to get ahead if they don't tussle with the enemy? It's one thing to just put yourself on a platter by overextending all year, but it's another to say "Psh, you were in that position". That's way too broad. If I got my hands full skirmishing with the enemy, even if you ping "missing", what are the odds I'm gonna notice that? If you aren't going to follow your lane, then quickly ping "caution" or "danger" before they have time to make it halfway to me.

Like, I get the notion of this thread, but it's way too black and white and doesn't do justice for the grey areas.

MrEnder1 votes

Sigh you are badly missing my point =\ I give up on you Monkeymadness =\

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