Aight. If i can do it with out being toxic AF im gonan run a viability test on champions.

Kai Guy·Jan 23, 2019·1 votes·1,101 views

Sent in a support ticket to find out if you can have Riot Lower your MMR. If its something that can be done then I am making it a pet project to test the climb from Iron to Gold with every champion in game and try to gauge the difficulty in that.

I will do it all on my own if needed, thou collecting some Gold+ dedicated mains would save me a great deal of time as id have to learn a lot of champions better to accomplish this. If you cant get MMR lowered then its not worth the time because creating 100+ smurfs is a bit insane, and I honestly hate the idea of trying to intentionally lose all the way to iron 4. For me it just feels blatantly toxic to everybody who loses games because a player is trying to get to bottom of ladder.

9 Comments

JamareeJan 23, 20192 votes

The validity of your test will run into problems from the get go.

First off, you have personal skill that influence it as well. Case in point, you have Ryze mains in challenger even though he is subpar in solo queue.

Second, you have the problem of buffs and nerfs, to get enough games to get see proper results on top of nerfs and buffs to the champion around them which will shift the champion viability.

Finally, you would have to do it with a break down between comp and solo play alon with all that, gl though.

Kai GuyJan 24, 20191 votes

Sorry. Shoulda been more clear. The first thing I want to check is if its possible to climb from the bottom to gold. Secondary is the difficulty in that. I want to show that with skill on a champion its possible to reach season rewards. I want players to start focusing on themselves more. how they play. If you can show that all 144(soon TM) champions can go from bottom to season rewards I feel like it would encouraged players just play what they love and play to win on it.

Part of the point is showing that personal skill influences it. Even if your champion is subpar.

Also ya still run into an issue of needing 100s of matches and that impacts a lot of games for folks.

I also want it to not be challenger smurfs. Looking for folks in Gold - Plat MMR, something that feels more reachable to a majority of players.

JamareeJan 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=POhAAaqp,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-24T00:13:36.287+0000)

Sorry. Shoulda been more clear. The first thing I want to check is if its possible to climb from the bottom to gold. Secondary is the difficulty in that. I want to show that with skill on a champion its possible to reach season rewards. I want players to start focusing on themselves more. how they play. If you can show that all 144(soon TM) champions can go from bottom to season rewards I feel like it would encouraged players just play what they love and play to win on it.

Part of the point is showing that personal skill influences it. Even if your champion is subpar.

Also ya still run into an issue of needing 100s of matches and that impacts a lot of games for folks.

I also want it to not be challenger smurfs. Looking for folks in Gold - Plat MMR, something that feels more reachable to a majority of players.

Oh, in that case it most definitely is possible with every champion, or are you doing it based off a metric of the BEST champion to carry from Iron to Gold? Because if you are asking if a champion is viable from Iron to Gold, I can just save you time and say yes so you aren't forced to put yourself through this stress. From Iron to Low Diamond, all champions are viable as long as you are willing to put in the work.

Kai GuyJan 24, 20191 votes

From Iron to Low Diamond, all champions are viable as long as you are willing to put in the work

I strongly agree. I just want to take the time and actually prove it. I want folks to focus more on themselves and getting good at what they enjoy rather then the constant OMG TEAMMATES tilt.

I want to show clear proof. Champion by champion. You can make it up the ladder and its not exclusive to Diamond/Challenger players.

JamareeJan 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=POhAAaqp,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-24T02:42:35.194+0000)

I strongly agree. I just want to take the time and actually prove it. I want folks to focus more on themselves and getting good at what they enjoy rather then the constant OMG TEAMMATES tilt.

I want to show clear proof. Champion by champion. You can make it up the ladder and its not exclusive to Diamond/Challenger players.

I mean you can just go to sites like lol anytlics to see that already, but good luck.

Kai GuyJan 24, 20191 votes

Well the good news is that if I really wanted I can do this as the starting MMR will be iron for new accounts. Down side is that it requires a fresh account to be raised to 30 for each test.

As the point is to try and prove even the "weakest" solo que champions are viable to climb with skilled play and your impact as a player always matters. I suppose I could shave off a lot of time and make a poll to find say the top 5-10 perceived "worst" or "lowest tier" champions In the game and just make 1 trick accounts for them.

Anyhow not really worth the time if it wont be useful to other players. I already have pretty strong feelings on the importance of focusing on the single reliable variable in a game of league. Yourself.

If it helps folks move away from "forced 50%" or "Elo Hell" I am happy to put in my time but that's honestly as far as I care. Sounds like real drag to do and frankly I don't enjoy smurfing.

Still not sold that making a boat load of smurfs wouldn't be toxic for a lot of folks and hurt their enjoyment. Guess I will just table it for now and might approach it later if there's a bunch of rage over riot changing their Ranked ladder start point.

JamareeJan 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=POhAAaqp,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-24T07:44:37.976+0000)

Well the good news is that if I really wanted I can do this as the starting MMR will be iron for new accounts. Down side is that it requires a fresh account to be raised to 30 for each test.

As the point is to try and prove even the "weakest" solo que champions are viable to climb with skilled play and your impact as a player always matters. I suppose I could shave off a lot of time and make a poll to find say the top 5-10 perceived "worst" or "lowest tier" champions In the game and just make 1 trick accounts for them.

Anyhow not really worth the time if it wont be useful to other players. I already have pretty strong feelings on the importance of focusing on the single reliable variable in a game of league. Yourself.

If it helps folks move away from "forced 50%" or "Elo Hell" I am happy to put in my time but that's honestly as far as I care. Sounds like real drag to do and frankly I don't enjoy smurfing.

Still not sold that making a boat load of smurfs wouldn't be toxic for a lot of folks and hurt their enjoyment. Guess I will just table it for now and might approach it later if there's a bunch of rage over riot changing their Ranked ladder start point.

There will be, but probably for the best to shelf it.

AIQJan 23, 20191 votes

Not only would this test be highly inaccurate, due to factors like server/patch/ meta/ champion balance/ personal skill etc.

You would also be ruining games for a lot of low elo players and I'm not for that at all.

Kai GuyJan 24, 20191 votes

You would also be ruining games for a lot of low elo players and I'm not for that at all.

That does bother me as well. Hence the title "If i can do it with out being toxic AF" . That's also why if its not something that can be accomplished with a support ticket + community support its not worth bothering with.

I think being educational and helpful as well as upfront with players in the match would off set some of the annoyance or pain experienced. Providing some coaching / helping them with mechanics.Ideally it would be a community project rather then just me soloing everything for months. Have ground rules for people participating about respect and also to help the other players learn.

Ultimately my end goal is to show that a majority of the champion rooster is viable up to gold, which is a milestone for a high % of players because they want season rewards. And get a good feel for what that looks like, how big of a skill gap between player true skill and MMR impacts champions ability to climb. I'd like to keep it to mid tier mmrs like Gold and plat because frankly far as I can tell Diamond and up just stomps when they smurf.

Im from Dota all star days. When Clans would crash "noob only" games and make it hell for new players + massively higher levels of toxicity. I don't want to recreate that environment. But a lot of folks express a feeling of helplessness and despite reassuring folks that skill matters I see a massive # of folks believe in forced losses and rigged matchmaker rather then bad luck on RNG.

I try to explain MMR and Elo Systems but it usually gets ignored. So I figured showing that you can climb with any champion you love might be a good way to encourage more players to just focus on their picks and their own play. To play how and what they love. To not be meta slaves at the cost of their enjoyment of the game.

For as much as Role selection has helped with matchmaking it also removed a lot of the requirement to learn multiple roles to climb. And who knows, perhaps s9 fixes that with new positional matchmaking.

Anyhow. I am not super considered with accuracy so much as showing that its possible, I think attempting it 144 times does provide some helpful data on difficulty. But well its going to be biased cuz if I do a lions share of the work then its going to be inherently around my playstyle and play patterns.