When is Zed getting nerfed?

Cloud273··47 votes·2,989 views

Really annoying playing against someone with so much safety who can chunk you every 5 seconds. His Shadow slash is basically free poke, and his shurikens aren't that hard to land. And then you have to buy QSS (a magic resist item against an AD assassin) to make sure you don't die. And now there's making a new assassin item, because apparently assassin's are "too weak".

76 Comments

Dominick Destine26 votes

Zed's real problem is he has long range poke and very safe assassinations while being manaless and having extremely high base stats.

He will not get nerfed because he is part of Riot's protected children.... better to nerf SUPER OVERPOWERED BROKEN CHARACTERS like Anivia Skarner Swain Rammus Karthus

Troiann4 votes

He has safe assassination because his burst is unreliable.

You can QSS his main burst (the ult proc), you can hourglass his entire burst because his ult is extremely telegraphed, or you can flash the shurikens.

Just watch bjergson play twisted fate into zed. He can only get killed if he is caught out. Otherwise the zed can't touch him, either in lane or in skirmishes.

Cloud27313 votes

{quoted}

He has safe assassination because his burst is unreliable.

You can QSS his main burst (the ult proc), you can hourglass his entire burst because his ult is extremely telegraphed, or you can flash the shurikens.

Just watch bjergson play twisted fate into zed. He can only get killed if he is caught out. Otherwise the zed can't touch him, either in lane or in skirmishes.

So what if he doesn't get kills? He still has extremely safe poke and amazing damage in fights.

Troiann1 votes

His poke can be annoying in lane, I can agree. But I've rarely seen a non fed zed do any sort of "amazing damage" in full scale teamfights. His whole gimmick is to make a flashy assassination. No more, no less.

Or maybe all platinum zeds suck I don't know.

The Deckowner4 votes

i know diamond zeds dont really need ult to kill adc lol.

Handin Out Naps1 votes

But you are bronze lmao. You don't even see people counter building Zed yet.

Dominick Destine4 votes

{quoted}

He has safe assassination because his burst is unreliable.

What do you mean unreliable? even without his ult, he has significant burst from range (Shadow into Shuriken/Slow) ... which he can safely follow up with an auto-attack for a TLD and Contempt for the Weak.

Uhh, unreliable burst? you must be joking.

Only Play Darius3 votes

If you are dying to Zed in teamfights without his ult being used then you mispositioned

Dominick Destine6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PF1NGdnh,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2016-02-08T18:46:03.414+0000)

If you are dying to Zed in teamfights without his ult being used then you mispositioned

The same could be said about literally any/every other champion.

Flimsy argument.

Only Play Darius3 votes

No. Zed is more reliant on his ultimate that any other assassin in the game (even Rengar can land an empowered Bola, and Akali's R is a 4th basic ability)

Dominick Destine9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PF1NGdnh,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-08T18:53:27.829+0000)

No. Zed is more reliant on his ultimate that any other assassin

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Only Play Darius1 votes

Ok. Go play a game as Zed and don't use your ult. Willing to bet you don't get more than 2 kills

Anu3isII4 votes

Go play a game with Akali, Diana, Kassadin, Fizz, Evelynn, Katarina, Nocturne, or Talon and don't use your ult. Willing to bet you don't get more than 2 kills...

Only Play Darius1 votes

Akali's ult is low cooldown with resets

Diana's ult is low cooldown with resets

Kassadin ult is VERY low cooldown

Fizz can get kills without his ult. If they Hourglass the shark they still have the damage amp on them so Fizz can still kill them easily

Evelynn is hardly an assassin

Katarina ult has resets, and she can kill without ult anyway, no energy to limit her ability spam either (she also has the best teamfighting of any assassin while Zed has among the worst)

Nocturne is an outdated assassin and these days functions more like a DPS bruiser than an assassin. Regardless, his ult offers much more utility than Zed's

Talon I will give you some credit, although his is more versatile in that it hits in AOE, can be used to escape, and isn't completely nullified by Hourglass

Furthermore, every ult you listed is "press R to do damage". Zed's ult has pathetic base damage and is dependent on him following up with more abilities (and the requisite energy) to pump up the damage and pray to god it doesn't get Hourglass/QSS/Shielded/Kayle ult etc.

I won't deny that Zed can be frustrating to deal with but when you look at every other assassin it's easy to see how much healthier he is for the game

F L 0 R A L S2 votes

HAHAHA you definitely shut his mouth up with those facts!

Only Play Darius1 votes

Nah, seeing as this is a circlejerk thread populated by people who have never played Zed but cry about how little counterplay he has I will probably get down voted to hell anyway (I used to cry about Zed until I actually played him on free week, so I'm partially guilty). He's a lot like LB/Yasuo in that they become significantly easier to deal with and outplay if you actually play them a few games and learn how their kit works.

Will Zed become oppressive with the new assassin dagger? Maybe. Is he overpowered now? Not at all. This is just an early game meta and Zed is popular because he is the only assassin who has a good laning phase, at the cost of a ton of stuff other assassins get to have. People hate assassins and will pick on whichever one is being played. But it's nice to have even just one person who shares my viewpoint.

Dextix LT5 votes

You do realise that you replied to a point in which it was stated that those champs also rely on their ultimates?

And you refute that point by, pointing out their ultimates?

Im sorry, what? Do you even argument?

I will make it easy for you.

Why and how is zed more reliant on his ultimate than any other assasin

Only Play Darius2 votes

Fizz and Katarina don't need their ult's to kill. Noc and Eve have kits that do not properly classify them as pure assassins and don't count. The others have extremely low cooldowns on their ults to the point that they are almost always up and feel more like basic abilities. His ult is also gives you more time to hourglass/cleanse/shield than any other ult in the game.

I see what you're saying though, my bad. Maybe I should have reworded it "Zed is the only assassin who cannot reliably kill someone more than once every 60 seconds"

Anu3isII1 votes

Now I see your point of view and I agree with you.

The thing that I wanted to underline is the fact that some of the other assassins have weaker basic abilities (so weaker early game) in exchange for those powerful Ultimates.

Zed instead has a powerful early game combined with his deadly ult, that, as you mentioned, is easy to counterbuild or even counter in some particular scenarios.

He is healthy because he is powerful early game at the trade of potentially weaker late game. The real big problem people have now is that the current Meta is a snowbally one, and Zed is one of those champions who works well at this moment.

UnderscorBunnies1 votes

Are you saying that there's an assassin that's more reliant on their ultimate than zed, or are you claiming that his statement was wrong without explaining why?

Dominick Destine4 votes

{quoted}

Are you saying that there's an assassin that's more reliant on their ultimate than zed

Talon Evelynn Diana Akali Ahri Katarina Leblanc

Zed is arguably the least dependent on his ult out of all assassins. Zed can poke and/or commit fairly reliably without the use of his ult... compared to , let's say; Akali and Talon who NEED their ultimates to do those things....

Do you know what the words "Being reliant on their ult" mean? because Zed does not fit the description.

But let's play your little game; If Akali had her ult removed, could she function? no. If Diana had her ult removed, could she function? no. If Zed had his ult removed, could he function? yes.

AninLegions7771 votes

Explain to me exactly how he'll function.

Dextix LT1 votes

Because he still has his mobility, his poke, his damage, his clear.

The only thing he loses is extra damage which he doesnt even always need.

If Diana lost her ultimate, she would have 0 mobility and would be entirely fcked as an assasin, the same goes for akali.

AninLegions7771 votes

I keep telling you people. Zed's poke is 2 shurikens. They are sooooo easy to predict. Once Zed moves forward, expect the bloody W>E>Q combo. It's not rocket science. Talon has a higher dmg output than Zed. Why aren't you on his case? Zed's clear is great IF he's allowed to farm peacefully. If you play against heimer or Ziggs as Zed, farming is a huge problem due to constant poke.

You can't even compare Zed's ult with Diana's. Diana has a reset/VERY low CD. Zed has a high CD ult until max rank. Diana can actually 100-0 in 1 sec. Zed can't without his ult which is countered by 2 items. Diana's ult cover's more ground than Zed's ult and can be used continuously in quick succession. They aren't even comparable. Diana has way more advantages.

Avios11 votes

Heim and Zigggs aren't really a good example, mostly because:

1.) Heimerdinger's Turrets are easily able to be cleared by Zed's WQE combo.

2.) Ziggs has been an unreliable pick for a good half-season (Feels like it, anyways), and his Bombs are easily dodgable.

AninLegions7771 votes

Just look at what you typed. You use 3 abilities to clear one or two (definitely can't clear 3) turrets while dealing almost no damage to heimer and leaving yourself vulnerable to poke and gank for the next 13 sec or there about. And once heimer reaches rank 4 Q, he can spam turrets all day meaning no matter how many times you clear his turrets, he'll put them back in a min.

Ziggs is not a strong pick but he's a safe pick. He can farm without Zed ever hitting him. If Zed ults him, he uses satchel to push Zed away. He has a massive AoE ult that lets him secure kills. He's safe. Also, his bombs are easily dodged but come at the cost of farm. If he sees Zed trying to last hit, he throws a bomb making Zed lose a substantial amount of farm.

These two are good picks and don't even get me started on Syndra or lux.

Auz the Ripper1 votes

Zed's ult can only be 33% of his full burst.

Talon's ult, on the otherhand, can be up to 50% of his full burst (depending on how many times talon autoattacks).

F L 0 R A L S1 votes

true

Sona Ping3 votes

OR: Alternatively, you can do what I do and just kill them before the Death Mark even has a chance to pop because, little secret, Zed actually has TWO damage multipliers in his kit (on top of the percent health damage) so all the items you buy on Zed do more damage. Just because!

Only Play Darius1 votes

Or, you could do what any sensible person does and Hourglass the moment he reappears so he is locked out of his ult

Sona Ping1 votes

Nah. Since I am already on top of them, I'll just wait the two seconds and kill them anyway, because as I said, usually don't even need the ult damage to kill them.

I mean, it's not like they are going anywhere....

YossarianSensei2 votes

Zed is one thing, but let's not pretend any of those Champs are healthy and undeserving of nerfs/reworks.

Dominick Destine6 votes

{quoted}

Zed is one thing, but let's not pretend any of those Champs are healthy and undeserving of nerfs

Uh what? none of those deserved nerfs. They were already underpowered and are now a complete joke. Ex: http://champion.gg/champion/Karthus , yeah under 1% play rate with 47% win .... we already know that low-played characters tend to have a grossly inflated win rate, so a 47% win with less than 1% play is abysmally low. Do you understand?

Zed Yasuo LeeSin deserve nerfs because they're overpowered but will never get them because Riot favoritism.... it makes me miss the Morello era, yeah characters got hella nerfed but at least THE RIGHT CHARACTERS GOT NERFED. The only character that got well deserved nerfs in this era was Rengar

YossarianSensei1 votes

I don't understand how Win-rate suddenly 'means something' when it's applied to any champion that isn't Zed/Lee Sin/Yasuo who have consistently low winrates

Like a lot of older champions, those champs have low play-rates because they're either boring AF or niche picks or both, but that doesn't make them less broken under certain situations.

Cloud2733 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand how Win-rate suddenly 'means something' when it's applied to any champion that isn't Zed/Lee Sin/Yasuo who have consistently low winrates

Like a lot of older champions, those champs have low play-rates because they're either boring AF or niche picks or both, but that doesn't make them less broken under certain situations.

Zed's win rate actually isn't low at all. If you round up, he has about a 53% win rate. Lee Sin and Yasuo both have a less than 50% win rate.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

MrWasjig3 votes

Better add Malzahar to that list as well.

Voluug131 votes

Soon™

His graceful reign as the anti assassin pick will probably end on the midyear mage rework.

Mhihnj1 votes

No, pls no. Anivia and Rammus are my best mid and jungle respectively.

If they nerf them i too will become Zed one day.

You either die a hero or live long enough to become Zed

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

No, pls no. Anivia and Rammus are my best mid and jungle respectively.

My post was referencing the fact that Riot felt it necessary to nerf those champions and BUFF Zed.

The Morello era > The Meddler era

MisterHealYoGirl3 votes

Zed has nerfs on the PBE as we speak.

Dominick Destine10 votes

{quoted}

Zed has nerfs on the PBE as we speak.

You mean

Death Mark (R) "pop" damage lowered to 25/35/45% from 30/40/50%

That's such an insignificant nerf it might as well not even exist.

MisterHealYoGirl3 votes

The OP asked a question, I answered it. To give a fuller answer, the balance team is waiting to see what impact the new item has on AD assassins' balance before they make any wild changes.

UnderscorBunnies1 votes

Insignificant? Hello? A 5% damage reduction at all levels is a decently sized nerf. If a zed is building AD, he's gonna do a shit ton of damage, so lowering it by any amount has a decent sized effect on the pop damage.

Nahui2 votes

Does not have a 5 second %%%%%.

Shadow slash is in no way a free poke, it's melee. It's as free as an AA.

Shurikens aren't hard to land, aren't hard to dodge either. Hard to land though without hitting a minion. Very easy to fight.

Don't have to buy a QSS. Just have to outplay. Dont get horribly poked down and you won't be all in'd. Flash intelligently. Poke him too.

Blumpkin Nation7 votes

They are extremely easy to land. Because him being melee means that you have to get in closer proximity to farm and he can E/Q you pretty easily. If he changes spots with the shadow, he can even get his TLD proc off with a basic.

Zed doesn't need the passive AD bonus damage in his kit. That's free power that shouldn't apply to any assassin. inb4 Akali. At least Akali's is low damage than only applies to basic attacks.

Nahui1 votes

So play a ranged champ?

The AD bonus is to stop him from completely falling off late game.

Voluug131 votes

The AD bonus is to stop him from completely falling off late game.

You mean like every other single assassin in the game? That if they dont snowball they fall off?

Nahui1 votes

Other assassins don't fall off like he does with the late game itemization and not being restricted to single target.

iDarkWind3 votes

{quoted}

They are extremely easy to land. Because him being melee means that you have to get in closer proximity to farm and he can E/Q you pretty easily. If he changes spots with the shadow, he can even get his TLD proc off with a basic.

Zed doesn't need the passive AD bonus damage in his kit. That's free power that shouldn't apply to any assassin. inb4 Akali. At least Akali's is low damage than only applies to basic attacks.

Oh he doesn't?

His late game is one of the worst compared to other AD Assasins. QSS and Zhonya's will be there for not allow you to kill the enemy ADC, meanwhile Talon and Rengar will keep one shot your sweet ADC. Do you have any idea how taking his 25% Bonus AD would affect his late game? Instead of hating the champion try to understand how he works. I don't even care that you all hate my main, I don't. I can deal with your complains, if they were true. His late game is already bad but you want to make him worst. Basicly a 4vs5 Game pos 30-35 minutes.

There're so many ways to counter him. So many counter picks, but you guys just like to ignore it. I even imagine some of the people that are here complaining. I just imagine them picking TF against Zed and then complain that he is overpowered.

The only thing that I agree is about the new item. I hate that item too, and I wish Riot would give up of that idea. Unfortly they won't.

Voluug131 votes

His late game is one of the worst compared to other AD Assasins.

Hi my name is Talon and if I dont snowball I cant even splitpush like Zed can.

There're so many ways to counter him. So many counter picks, but you guys just like to ignore it.

No one is ignoring them. Riot nerfs them into the ground or flat out remov- reworks them.

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