Boards›Gameplay

Tristana: Thoughts and Ideas

Stacona··8 votes·1,130 views

Three majour flaws about Tristana:

  1. She is a very clunky feeling champion.

  2. Two of her abilities literally just should be implemented into her base stats, this also makes her have two abilities that are not very interesting.

  3. Tristana doesn't actually have an identity; hyper marksman is not one because we have plenty of those already and the others have their own niche to them. Jinx is the resetting crazy person - with lots of guns, Twitch is Spray and Pray teamfighting madness, Kog'Maw throws up on your face - also a void puppy, Sivir makes your team move fast with Ricochet's artificial long range, etc. Tristana right now has just steroids and is clunky to balance out those steroids - also I do not want Tristana's identity to solely be on the fact that she scales (or have this identity at all) so a redesign would be the best for her for the long term.

Reminder: Numbers are the easiest things to change and tune.

Basic Attack Range: 575 units [up and down from 550-669] Attack Animation: Should be cleaned up and quickened to feel less clunky, and feel more responsive Movement: 330 units per second [up from 325] Attack Speed: 0.677 +4% per level [up from 0.656 +1.5% per level]

Rapid Fire (Passive): Whenever Tristana casts on ability her next basic attack within 2 seconds fires 4 shots at 30% damage each, only the first shot applies on-hit effects. If this attack critically strikes then the shots do not deal increased damage and instead more shots are fired [8 for normal crits; 10 with Infinity Edge crits].

Demolition (Q): Cooldown; 10/9.5/9/8.5/8 seconds; Cost: 50 Mana; Range: 900 units Passive: Tristana's executes cause the dying enemy to explode sending off shrapnel around it dealing 30/50/70/90/110(+20%AP) magic damage to nearby enemies.

Active: Tristana fires a shot in the target direction dealing 10/15/20/25/30(+100%AD) physical damage to struck enemies, including structures, and applying Demolition's passive around every enemy struck.

Rocket Jump (W): Cooldown: 18/16/14/12/10 seconds; Cost: 60 Mana; Range: 900 / 350 units Active: Tristana blasts the ground at her feet and goes flying off to the target location, slowing enemies down by 90% for 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 seconds upon impact. Tristana can basic attack and cast her other abilities during Rocket Jump.

If Tristana lands on an Explosive Charge then it detonates for doubles its damage and refunds Rocket Jump's cooldown and mana cost.

Passive: Kills or assists against enemy champions, structures, or epic monsters will refund Rocket Jump's cooldown.

Explosive Charge (E): Cooldown: 12/11/10/9/8 seconds [after detonation]; Cost: 40 Mana; Range: 600 / 350/700 units 1st Cast: Tristana places a charge on the target enemy, can be placed onto enemy structures greatly increasing the explosion radius. The charge falls off the target and becomes disarmed if Tristana does not attack the target for 4 seconds.

Every attack and shot from Tristana charges this charge causing it to deal 10/15/20/25/30(+10%AD)(+15%AP) physical damage when it explodes, stacking infinitely.

2nd Cast: Tristana detonates the charge. If the target dies then the charge also detonates.

Kamikaze Bomb (R): Cooldown: 120/100/80 seconds; Cost: 100 Mana; Range: 900 / 600 units 1st Cast: Tristana places a large bomb on the target champion or at the target location for the next 5 seconds.

2nd Cast: Tristana detonates the bomb knocking back struck nearby enemies and herself away. If Tristana gets 10 attacks and shots against the bomb then it will explode immediately and deal 300/400/500(+100%AP) magic damage to struck enemies, can damage enemy structures.

If Kamikaze Bomb is on an allied champion or Tristana then it cannot be attacked and deals 250/325/400(+80%AP) magic damage while knocking back struck enemies when detonated.

19 Comments

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

she needs a complete rework. she is outclassed in every aspect.

Stacona2 votes

This pretty much does that, she still scales really well, but less about late game hyper scaling and more power into the mid game (shouldn't feel like a lane bully, but a huge emphasis with high risk game play with Rocket Jump and getting rewarded for that, as well as take down the enemy base).

Here I really want to focus on Tristana being a commando marksman that jumps right in your face, kills you or destroys your base, and gets out. Not an assassin remind you, but as a high risk and high reward marksman, she should feel very unique with my ideas and very fun to play (let's face it, playing checkers with the Rocket Jump resets is what you live for on Tristana and I completely redesigned her to play around Rocket Jump - so her jump enables her rather than be about an escape).

Anags1 votes

I think the big patches coming will help her. She really just needs a littme more AD scaling.

Stacona2 votes

It won't. Tristana needs an identity rather than be a stat stick champion, stat sticks only get played when they are one of the strongest champions in the game, where as champions with identities get played for a purpose and not played when a player does not like that gameplay / playstyle.

Right now the only fun thing about Tristana is her checkers reset, but Jinx also has a reset and has more to offer than Tristana without the clunkiness. So redesigning Tristana completely around her Rocket Jump will probably be better for her in the long term rather than trying to cling on to her being a hyper marksman for whatever reason; commando marksman I think will be fun to play, there is an unique niche about it, but even if it is not competitively viable for whatever reason it would be unique and fun to play at least (right now Tristana is only fun when fed and you can play checkers, but what champion isn't fun when fed)

Sire Hippington1 votes

Tristana is a wierd champ, she's a close combat all in adc early on and transitions into a longranged hypercarry with decent selfpeel later on. This causes some of her kit to feel usless at any time in the game. Early on, you hardly notice your passive and Q also doesn't do much, and later on E is pretty weak unless for pushing towers, and useing W agressively is just suizide.

Imo they should decide wether she's ment to be a longranged hypercarry or an caster like all-in champ. I would prefer the all-in type, change her aa range to 575 and change her passive to something that helps her surving when she jumps in, like a shield for every champion hit with an abillity, so landing a good E or jumpin into the middle of the fight gives you the needed beef to get right into the fray. Adjust some of her numbers to increase the potential of her E later on but reduce the early burst as her laneing would be insane with the current burst and an aditional shield. Lower manacosts overall and less cd on her E would be nice aswell

Stacona1 votes

Instead of a shield, I decided to have it where she plants her E on a target, gets some stacks on it and detonate it by jumping on the target rather then pressing E again and that also grants a reset as well (this E is a hybrid of current E and Kalista's Rend, but scales with crit chance with the new passive).

I rather see Tristana have a kit around Rocket Jump than be a hyper marksman with steroids that should probably be a part of her base stats. Right now I placed her as more of a mid-game commando marksman that still has decent scaling (mainly with the new passive and somewhat the new E), her late game is toned back quite a bit and she isn't a lane bully, but she turns on a lot sooner with the compensation that her late game is no where near as strong so that she can actually take down objectives in an appropriate time frame since hyper marksman does not make sense for an objective taking focused marksman.

Rather than her E dealing direct damage I get it a better slow and does damage only when jumping on a target with an E on it since the damage doubles, it adds a cool synergy and reward Tristana for setting herself up and going for the risky play - and gets the reset to go out whether she actually kills the target or not (it be silly making a marksman jump in to melee range and not give her a way to not die, I think keeping her ultimate as a type of large knock-back and her resets is enough self-defense for the risky playstyle [planting the new ult on an enemy does not knock them back at detonation, but will damage them], a shield of some kind would just be overkill).

121E1V1 votes

Riot already said they want to give her a slight rework. Also, i love Tristana. She's literally the only ADC i own.

singiel381 votes

Riot already said they want to give her a slight rework

Can I have source please? I didn't see any informations about it.

121E1V2 votes

Not officially anounced but here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/dfBEYBNq-will-there-be-tristana-buffschanges-in-patch-73 and on some other posts where people asked about tristana rioters basically confirmed that they're looking to solve her "identity crisis".

singiel381 votes

Thanks, but I've seen it and she got her buff already, I am not sure if there will be some more buffs, let's see

Stacona1 votes

I want to give my ideas of what I would like her to be turned into, rather than be kept as a hyper marksman (my ideas still has her with decent scaling, but not quite to the same hyper scaling level and moved more power into mid game rather than be late game focused) I think a high-risk and high-reward commando marksman would be a lot more fun to me and really build a kit based around Rocket Jump her one and only true unique ability to Tristana.

So this kit is about setting up your target with your E, jumping in for the kill, and getting out with the reset; with a bigger emphasis on mowing down enemy minions and structures and playing the objective game and really solidify Tristana more about a mid-game, objective taking marksman rather than be another hyper marksman. This direction would also help make Jinx more unique as well and not share the same place as Tristana.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

No attack speed steroid makes me very uncertain.. especially because the passive is a worse version of Lucians. It's also BEGGING for Cleaver.

I'd like the Q to be an auto attack reset as well. Perhaps it should be able to crit?

Personally, I think Trist's niche is a reset assassin. Twitch kinda shares that niche, but Trist should do it better (and be able to do it over a wall). That's because she can W onto someone, slow them, pump them full of bullets, and then jump away once she gets the kill (or even if she doesn't get it, if she popped E she can W away). A lot of ADC's have burst, but the only one with a reset escape is Twitch, and his is not as great.

Stacona1 votes

I made a kit around her Rocket Jump since it was her only unique element to her. For her attack speed, it is better just to buff her base attack speed and attack speed per level and free up an ability slot for something more interesting.

The passive is best with crit chance, making your E scale really well and have it indirectly to crit here. Just because something can use black cleaver, doesn't mean they should black cleaver. I do think a commando marksman would be a lot more fun than what trist is now

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

I made a kit around her Rocket Jump since it was her only unique element to her. For her attack speed, it is better just to buff her base attack speed and attack speed per level and free up an ability slot for something more interesting.

The passive is best with crit chance, making your E scale really well and have it indirectly to crit here. Just because something can use black cleaver, doesn't mean they should black cleaver. I do think a commando marksman would be a lot more fun than what trist is now

Her passive is literally a weaker version of Lucian's in all regards, even with an IE crit it does less damage (even though Lucian gets halved crit damage on his second shot, it's still a 305% AD scaling factoring IE and halved crit, compared to Trist's 300% with 10 shots).

However, with crits, thats a ton of E damage. Seems like most of her power is put into that.

Stacona1 votes

Tristana also has a lot of enemy base destruction, a long range jump, and even crowd control. So Lucian and Tristana do drastically different things, Tristana would be the high risk commando marksman with brute force power while Lucian is more of a slippery duelist, granting them very unique strengths and weaknesses - all of the lane bullies are probably too strong right now i.e Lucian, Ezreal, Draven, Caitlyn, etc. (Caitlyn even has insane scaling so she is straight up overpowered right now)

I still have Tristana's power moved more towards late game with crit scaling, but more towards mid game and no longer a hyper marksman.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Tristana also has a lot of enemy base destruction, a long range jump, and even crowd control. So Lucian and Tristana do drastically different things, Tristana would be the high risk commando marksman with brute force power while Lucian is more of a slippery duelist, granting them very unique strengths and weaknesses - all of the lane bullies are probably too strong right now i.e Lucian, Ezreal, Draven, Caitlyn, etc. (Caitlyn even has insane scaling so she is straight up overpowered right now)

I still have Tristana's power moved more towards late game with crit scaling, but more towards mid game and no longer a hyper marksman.

I was comparing Trist more to Twitch, except instead of melting whole teams from 850 range she was more focused on the assassination pattern of using a mobility spell (Twitch Q, Trist W) to get in, quickly, (Trist W can hop large walls, Twitch Q invis's him), kill the target (Twitch gets attack speed from exiting Q), via pumping tons of shots in (although Twitch's crit makes him do a lotta damage before that), and then proccing something (compare: Twitch E, Kalista Rend, Trist bomb+R), getting the kill, and escaping (Twitch gets Q reset on kill, letting him escape with stealth and movespeed, Trist can hop away, perahaps over another wall).

Right now it kinda works, once you scale into late game you can W+E+Q+auto a bunch+E boom+auto more if needed+perhaps R to execute or R to get away from the other champions collapsing on you+W away. That's because Trist's late game is strong due to being a crit ADC, but it's still not that great - certainly not Twitch level, and he gets to melt teams as well.

Trist is also one of the best seigers (Cait does a really good job of area denial, but her tower damage ain't great, Jinx does a ton of tower damage, but zoning isn't amazing), so I'd like her to be a mostly single target damage dealer (which is gonna be weird, with the bomb, perhaps it's AoE could take a hit on champions?) who isn't amazing in full blown teamfights, but seiges towers and kills them really well (bomb, with the same AoE it has now so it's great for seiging) and also has assassination.

Stacona1 votes

Her ultimate is AoE now, I turned it into a hybrid of scenarios of planting it on an enemy so guaranteed damage but no knock back on that target, planting it on an ally either to save them or set up plays, or using it on self to knock enemies away or do the risky jump in to engage as a marksman - or throw it on the ground to zone the enemy team

But her resets I think is cool which is why I went with more of a mid game marksman for the commando play style to play on her structure destroying ways better and her high risk-high reward gameplay makes better sense with power more into the mid game than late game; crit marksmen will still scale really well, plus slightly more range than average helps her out later on since she isn't going to be a lane bully --- but her assassin gameplay is a lot more apparent with her new E+P+Q+P+W+P-in-mid-air+W's double E damage combo, and then whether you kill the target or not you get the guaranteed reset for detonating the bomb with your W rather than E's second cast

I think Trist needs some AoE in order to be a demolitionist to kill minion waves to get to the turret, if she cannot mow down minions then she can never get to the turret and inhib to destroy them. But her E is mostly focused around single target damage which is where most of her damage I based on, plant the E bomb and stack up the damage then make it BOOM!

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Her ultimate is AoE now, I turned it into a hybrid of scenarios of planting it on an enemy so guaranteed damage but no knock back on that target, planting it on an ally either to save them or set up plays, or using it on self to knock enemies away or do the risky jump in to engage as a marksman - or throw it on the ground to zone the enemy team

Sounds cool, although there is the concern of too much self peel. The knock back distance should be really big, so it's not too effective - she shouldn't be doing a Caitlyn, where she dissengages and then kites/melts you, because of it's reliability, this should just be peel, and should knock the enemy back far enough so that they aren't an easy target after failing their job of assassinating. It should also knock them back very quickly, so it's not a huge CC tool.

But her resets I think is cool which is why I went with more of a mid game marksman for the commando play style to play on her structure destroying ways better and her high risk-high reward gameplay makes better sense with power more into the mid game than late game; crit marksmen will still scale really well, plus slightly more range than average helps her out later on since she isn't going to be a lane bully --- but her assassin gameplay is a lot more apparent with her new E+P+Q+P+W+P-in-mid-air+W's double E damage combo, and then whether you kill the target or not you get the guaranteed reset for detonating the bomb with your W rather than E's second cast

My problem with that is that you need to walk into range. Sure Trist has a lot of range, but that's still a problem. First, because it's a lot cooler to rocket jump in than to walk in. Second, because Trist is gonna have some difficulty getting into range - and staying there, in the first place. Sure assassins do similar all the time, but they get long range gapclosers KhazixZed Fizz (yes Trist has one, but based on this you aren't using it to gapclose), invisibility Rengar Talon as well as the movespeed from Lethality items and Youmuu's and Edge of Night shields.

Rocket Jump even has a slow, so I think it'd make a lot more sense for her combo to be W+E(in mid air)+P -

Ok, got something to say here. Whether she autos before bombing or not depends on her attack speed (this is all in mid air) and whether or not her E is an auto attack reset (I say it shouldn't be). This is comparable to Quinn - upon exiting your ult, your passive will apply on your target after a little pause. Depending on your attack speed, you can completely pull off an extra auto in that time, or it'll be more effective to wait until the mark is applied, then proc it.

With Trist, you either auto before for extra damage and can auto after for bomb procs quickly enough that it won't actually affect your bomb stacks enough, but if you don't have enough attack speed, autoing before bombing could actually slow down your bomb stacks enough to hurt your overall damage. Trist gets 1.8 attack speed with Serkers and double as/crit at lvl 18, so it could reach that point.

Also, how long do you have to stack up/pop the bomb? I know it falls off if you don't auto after 4 seconds, but how long do you have in total? Also, 4 seconds is a bit long. That should be 2 seconds - if you don't manage to auto your target in the next 2 seconds, you shouldn't have bombed that early.

Anyway, back to the combo. W+(P)+E(in midair)+P(perhaps in midair)+Q+P+boom+W away (R if wanted).

Alright, I think doubling bomb damage if you W on them is a really, really, incredibly, bad idea. Why? Let's put it this way... two IE passive crits stacks the bomb twenty times, for a total of 200% AD and 600 base damage. The crits themselves already do 300% damage (which isn't really a good thing, that's like an extra IE compared to most people's crits, so giving her a lot of E power in damage is gonna be too much already), so when combo'd correctly with W popping the passive... well, first, without R.

E+P+Q+P+W+P (before landing) + BOOM.

So, best case scenario, all three crit. That's already 900% AD right there - remember, Vayne's crits are only ~380%. The Q is another 30 + 100% AD scaling, and stacks the bomb an additional time. So far, 30 base damage, 1000% AD scaling. Now for the bomb. 31 stacks (3 passive crits, and Q), is 310% AD scaling - but that's not the scary part. The scary part is the 30 base damage per auto - for comparison to the scaling, that's like having 300 AD. In total, that's 930 base damage and 310% AD scaling. Jeez.

Now double that.

1860 base damage and 620% scaling on a basic ability, with 3 crits.

In total, 1860 base damage and 1620% AD scaling. That is fucking huge. With 3 autos.

And it's not even tied to any meaningful cooldown, unless you're prepared to give her bomb a 30 second cooldown or something, and then Essence Reaver will bring that down to ~18 seconds.

Hopefully, you can see how this current version of Tristana has some problems. Even Caitlyn can't do 6k damage with 3 autos and three abilities, not even with triple headshots.

So the base damage of the bombs, or 10 stacks from IE, definitely needs a hit. The empowered autos could be weaker, or be flat out removed, as well (instead of 4 hits for 30%, 4 hits for 25%, and etc, so same damage as a normal auto, which as a crit ADC is already gonna be high, but stacks bomb). And I'd remove double damage from W'ing on them, because the bombs need to be decently powerful without being W'd on, so the double damage is always gonna be too much.

I think Trist needs some AoE in order to be a demolitionist to kill minion waves to get to the turret, if she cannot mow down minions then she can never get to the turret and inhib to destroy them. But her E is mostly focused around single target damage which is where most of her damage I based on, plant the E bomb and stack up the damage then make it BOOM!

Yeah, and her E passive is a great way to give her waveclear without giving her much AoE damage. Sure, it hurts as a squishy to be standing near a minion wave when Trist kills it, but compared to Jinx or Twitch or Sivir, it's nothing. And if Statikk Shiv becomes core, that would give waveclear as well. She doesn't really need bomb damage, but if her waveclear ends up lacking, perhaps the E splash damage should be increased against minions?

Stacona1 votes

The knock-back would still be outside her auto range; but trist has a knock-back and a jump now, reducing her range reduces her safety as well. The knock-back is easier to tune being on an ultimate, other than that she has her jump to do her tricks and resets to jump in, deal a bunch of damage, and get out with the resets [very commando'y]

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Stacona

I am really happy that new Nunu + Willump is not a dark edgelord
Gameplay70 comments
64
votes
I feel ike... Cull needs a buff...
Gameplay65 comments
55
votes
The Burst Age for League of Legends Straight Up is NOT fun to play in!
Gameplay68 comments
50
votes
The One Buff Bard He Needs!
Gameplay24 comments
50
votes
This is a Creative Works Forum
Concepts & Creations72 comments
48
votes
Nexus Towers in 8.11
Gameplay31 comments
46
votes